Your opinion of Orval Faubus

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

He was a great man -a man of the people.  He initiated some very progressive reforms and greatly improved the state of Arkansas' healthcare system.

Unfortunately the yankee propaganda is prevailing in this thread.  Where is StatesRights?

Well I don't know lots about the man, never really studied him. But if the first part you say is true my opinion of him shot up quite a bit. I voted option 1 for the record.

He was a socialist and you like him for that?

OK.

Let's test whom StatesRights perfers.

Come on, StatesRights, you've got to pick either Lincoln Chaffee or Huey Long.

This one ought to be fun.

[Alcon]

He was a great man -a man of the people.  He initiated some very progressive reforms and greatly improved the state of Arkansas' healthcare system.

Unfortunately the yankee propaganda is prevailing in this thread.  Where is StatesRights?

Well I don't know lots about the man, never really studied him. But if the first part you say is true my opinion of him shot up quite a bit. I voted option 1 for the record.

He was a socialist and you like him for that?

OK.

Not really a socialist. He improved the overall state of Arkansas with these measures and I generally do not oppose such things at the state level.

Uh:

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[Gabu]

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That's about Orval's dad, not Orval himself.

[Alcon]

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That's about Orval's dad, not Orval himself.

Oops.

That is true, but from what I have raid, Orval was quite economically liberal himself - pro-integration, too, but he gave in on that.  And for that I can't respect him.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A fool who ruined his reputation and betrayed his principles for some short-term electoral advantages. If he hadn't done what he's best remembered for, he'd be thought of as one of Arkansas's greatest governers.

[Democratic Hawk]

As an economic populist/progressive I'd have supported Orval Faubus but I would never have a agreed with his segregationist stance. The likelihood is I'd have voted for the Democrat, Faubus or not

Did Faubus merely run as a segregationist and/or, apart from Little Rock High School, did he govern as a segregationist?

From what I can gather Lester Maddox of Georgia ran as a segregationist but governed as a moderate

I didn't vote. Horrible Person and Freedom Fighter are too narrow

Dave

[??????????]

He was a great man -a man of the people.  He initiated some very progressive reforms and greatly improved the state of Arkansas' healthcare system.

Unfortunately the yankee propaganda is prevailing in this thread.  Where is StatesRights?

Well I don't know lots about the man, never really studied him. But if the first part you say is true my opinion of him shot up quite a bit. I voted option 1 for the record.

He was a socialist and you like him for that?

OK.

Let's test whom StatesRights perfers.

Come on, StatesRights, you've got to pick either Lincoln Chaffee or Huey Long.

This one ought to be fun.

Huey Long, but not by much.

[Akno21]

Out of curiousity, what do you guys think is worse, a person like Faubus, who may not really have been racist, but strongly opposed integration for political reasons, or someone who was strongly racist and opposed integration because of their racism?

[??????????]

Out of curiousity, what do you guys think is worse, a person like Faubus, who may not really have been racist, but strongly opposed integration for political reasons, or someone who was strongly racist and opposed integration because of their racism?

The second one because his beliefs are based on irrationality. The first person has a perfectly rational reason for playing the race card. Such is politics.

[jokerman]

Well I don't think Faubus should be completely condemed because of that one incidence.  For example, he did desegregate buses and public transportation.

[dazzleman]

Out of curiousity, what do you guys think is worse, a person like Faubus, who may not really have been racist, but strongly opposed integration for political reasons, or someone who was strongly racist and opposed integration because of their racism?

The latter is worse.  What about somebody who is strongly racist and supports integration for political reasons, while personally avoiding it?

[minionofmidas]

The end of the story - the 1970s onward part in the Wiki article - is just sad.
All in all he sounds like a man who made one horrible mistake - not so much in campaigning against desegration of schools, but in calling out the National Guard and in using those infamous words - and wasn't man enough to own up to it.
However, I'm not sure how true that is.
Faubus also ran for President in 1960 on a "National States Rights" ticket; that's missing on the Wiki. (He received 45K votes, of them 28K votes in Arkansas where he polled  7%.) Actually quite a lot of that Wiki article is very apologetic.

[Akno21]

Out of curiousity, what do you guys think is worse, a person like Faubus, who may not really have been racist, but strongly opposed integration for political reasons, or someone who was strongly racist and opposed integration because of their racism?

The latter is worse.  What about somebody who is strongly racist and supports integration for political reasons, while personally avoiding it?

While I strongly disagree with them personally, the results would be positive, even if the motives were not. So I would support him over the non-racist who's opposed to integreation, easily.

[© tweed]

Out of curiousity, what do you guys think is worse, a person like Faubus, who may not really have been racist, but strongly opposed integration for political reasons, or someone who was strongly racist and opposed integration because of their racism?

Or a third option, a strong racist who supported integration?  (LBJ)

[dazzleman]

Out of curiousity, what do you guys think is worse, a person like Faubus, who may not really have been racist, but strongly opposed integration for political reasons, or someone who was strongly racist and opposed integration because of their racism?

The latter is worse.  What about somebody who is strongly racist and supports integration for political reasons, while personally avoiding it?

While I strongly disagree with them personally, the results would be positive, even if the motives were not. So I would support him over the non-racist who's opposed to integreation, easily.

What is the ethnic composition of the neighborhood in which you live?

There are many who support integration for other people while personally avoiding it themselves, because they don't believe the results are all positive.

I believe we should be trying to create the conditions in which integration takes place naturally, as it has for various ethnic groups who once lived apart from one another.  That would be a really good result, but I don't see the phonies who pay lip service to integration while avoiding it themselves leading us in that direction.

[Akno21]

Out of curiousity, what do you guys think is worse, a person like Faubus, who may not really have been racist, but strongly opposed integration for political reasons, or someone who was strongly racist and opposed integration because of their racism?

The latter is worse.  What about somebody who is strongly racist and supports integration for political reasons, while personally avoiding it?

While I strongly disagree with them personally, the results would be positive, even if the motives were not. So I would support him over the non-racist who's opposed to integreation, easily.

What is the ethnic composition of the neighborhood in which you live?

There are many who support integration for other people while personally avoiding it themselves, because they don't believe the results are all positive.

I believe we should be trying to create the conditions in which integration takes place naturally, as it has for various ethnic groups who once lived apart from one another.  That would be a really good result, but I don't see the phonies who pay lip service to integration while avoiding it themselves leading us in that direction.

It's pretty white, as far as I can tell. However, my middle school was basically an even split, white/black, so it's not as if I'm surrounded by people just like me, although the black kids I went to middle school with are in a completely different part of town, I don't really live within walking distance of them.

At this point, I don't view integration as a political issue. But when we are talking about basic rights, like going to school or being able to eat in a restaurant, as was the case in the 50's and 60's, the alternative is so bad that I can let it slide if the person himself doesn't practice it, but uses his power to support integration. Of course, if he was one of those people threatening blacks who moved into his neighborhood, I would have a problem, but if he simply lived in a white neighborhood without being aggressive about keeping it that way, I could live with it.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Horrible. At least Wallace recanted his position

Faubus did too, actually endorsing Jesse Jackson in 1984.

Quite interesting figure, influenced by Eugene Debs in youth, elected as progressive protege of Sid McMath. Yet, because of his segregationist switch, I can't vote other way than HP.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Holy necropost, Batman!

[Oldiesfreak1854]

HP (Normal).  Aside from being a segregationist, he was mostly a New Deal liberal Democrat.  More of a segregationist populist, like George Wallace before the assassination attempt.

[Miles]

His populist polices were good. FF, apart from the racial integration stuff.

[RogueBeaver]

HP, obviously.

[TDAS04]

HP, obviously.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Sorry, I just can't vote FF for any politically active race baiter, regardless of how good the rest of his policies were.

Lester Maddox is a good example of this. Right, he was surprisingly moderate and effective Governor, but he never apologized for his violently racist past, always maintaining he did a "right thing."

I could vote FF had Faubus changes his positions for better while Governor. That'd be a very courageous act. But he did not until retirement.

I would vote FF for Fritz Hollings because, despite starting off as segregationist, he actually undertake a very courageous steps toward intergation and peaceful trasition while still Governor. That was something that took guts and he risked his political future. Doing George Wallace of Ross Barnett would be cheap and safe. He didn't.

I would vote FF for Lister Hill. He did support segregation, but never used hateful rethorics nor played major role in resisting civil rights bills, while being useful in transition. I believe what he did in other areas for all Americans (like health care) outweights nominal support for Jim Crow.

Millions of Southerners supported segregation for variety of reasons. Mostly, because they were brought up in this belief. It's not easy to overcome this and it's unfair to cast all of them as pure evil. I can't say what I would believe if I were born in the Old South. None of you can.

That being said, there's a difference between a nominal and non-malignant support for "old ways" and being a race baiterl

[Goldwater]

HP, obviously.