Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[Badger]

1) Thinking objectively, a state cannot tolerate the capital and the border being held hostage by protestors. The state must regain control of the country and reassert the rule of law.

2) When you take a minority group and say you’re not allowed to earn a living, you’re not allowed to enter into public facilities, and you’re not even allowed to leave our jurisdiction, while simultaneously having sympathetic-to-government courts deny what are very clearly enumerated rights, you have to expect a backlash.

Our various levels of government have created second class citizenship overnight and apparently expected these people to take it lying down. It’s a miracle that the government has managed to avoid out and out riots.

3) The government and various police forces have taken a lacksadasical approach to illegal blockades for nearly decade now going back to the Caledonia crisis. People notice these things, and not just people the government sympathizes with.

4) So the government trying to regain control of the country is obviously justified. But their entirely unjustifiable actions and arrogant approach leading up to now, as well as mismanagement of previous protests played a huge part bringing this upon thenselves.

/fin

 Can we please reiterate that literally 90% of Canadian truckers have gotten their shots and  Is anywhere from fine to at least accepting the vaccine mandate? It's 10% of one industry that basically says ftw I don't care who catches covid from me I'm going to not get my shots, And I will shut down the streets and join every other extremist crank in the process of doing so if anyone tries to say otherwise.

 Claiming that truckers forced to obey safety regulations not unlike don't drive drunk commawares seat belt, drive only so many hours per shift, and wear a hard hat in a loading dock or the like, as being somehow  Is being relegated to "2nd class citizens" is extreme hyperbole.

[Badger]

Impeach Trudeau !!

There is no impeachment in Canada, which means that you are supporting an unconstitutional coup against the elected Canadian government.

Western Canada should secede and The US should help them become their own nation

 Is meanwhile, in the reality that exists outside of beep boops hard drive:  Canadians overwhelmingly oppose the protesters

With numbers like that, it's doubtful the truckers  Have even a plurality of support in Alberta.

 Edit. Shoot. It's a Google amp link which I can't embed. Just Google "polls in Canada" and There's a CNN article about a Leger poll  Conducted just in the last few days.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Can we please reiterate that literally 90% of Canadian truckers have gotten their shots and  Is anywhere from fine to at least accepting the vaccine mandate?

~70% of Republicans are vaccinated and ~70% of Republicans are against Mandates.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

I find it interesting that the Conservative general election strategy I was thinking about seems to be gaining more traction. CPC targeting NDP seats, not leaning too heavily on fiscal conservatism, etc.
Even though I haven't been sharing it with people, I saw similar ideas on a twitter feed of a person called Bryan Breguet. DC had similar thoughts as well. So there might be a growing consensus (ok, consensus might be an exaggeration) by grassroots supporters as to what they want the Conservative party to pursue electorally. But the party establishment and media probably have other ideas.
The advice given by media pundits is not in good faith but that's another story.

If Poilievre is the next leader, as seems very likely, de-emphasizing fiscal conservatism will be tough. A better way for someone like him to target that vote would be anti-establishment rhetoric, which is something he's skilled at. But if the play is to move the CPC to the left on economics, Poilievre would be a very inauthentic quarterback.

[Central Lake]

I find it interesting that the Conservative general election strategy I was thinking about seems to be gaining more traction. CPC targeting NDP seats, not leaning too heavily on fiscal conservatism, etc.
Even though I haven't been sharing it with people, I saw similar ideas on a twitter feed of a person called Bryan Breguet. DC had similar thoughts as well. So there might be a growing consensus (ok, consensus might be an exaggeration) by grassroots supporters as to what they want the Conservative party to pursue electorally. But the party establishment and media probably have other ideas.
The advice given by media pundits is not in good faith but that's another story.

If Poilievre is the next leader, as seems very likely, de-emphasizing fiscal conservatism will be tough. A better way for someone like him to target that vote would be anti-establishment rhetoric, which is something he's skilled at. But if the play is to move the CPC to the left on economics, Poilievre would be a very inauthentic quarterback.

That is the interesting or paradoxical thing. Most of the establishment and media say fiscal conservatism will serve the CPC well. (fiscally conservative and socially liberal etc. ) While at the same time (I know it is a small sample size) many grassroot supporters are concerned about Poilievre's fiscal conservatism in an electoral context.

[T'Chenka]

meanwhile, in the reality that exists outside of beep boops hard drive:  Canadians overwhelmingly oppose the protesters

With numbers like that, it's doubtful the truckers  Have even a plurality of support in Alberta.

 Edit. Shoot. It's a Google amp link which I can't embed. Just Google "polls in Canada" and There's a CNN article about a Leger poll  Conducted just in the last few days.

To be 100% fair, some newer polling shows upwards of 50% of Canadians can "somewhat empathize / relate" with "some" of the things that are being protested (restrictions in general). But I mean, that probably means people agree that "restrictions kinda suck and are inconvenient". Which... yeah.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

The Star: Who supports the ‘freedom’ protesters and why

"The most important driver is generational. Half of under-50 Canadians are sympathetic to the protests and their cause. Other key drivers include education, with college graduates more sympathetic and university graduates more opposed. Social class is also a key factor with working class drawn to the protesters and middle and upper classes opposed."

This is based on EKOS polling, and it's basically what I expected - young people (young being a relative term, this article talks about under-50s), those without university education, and those in the working class are more sympathetic to the protestors, and the 50+, university-educated, and middle/upper class crowd are less so.

[DC Al Fine]

Justin "sunny ways" Trudeau accused a Jewish MP of standing with swastikas in the House today.

Disgraceful

[DC Al Fine]

I find it interesting that the Conservative general election strategy I was thinking about seems to be gaining more traction. CPC targeting NDP seats, not leaning too heavily on fiscal conservatism, etc.
Even though I haven't been sharing it with people, I saw similar ideas on a twitter feed of a person called Bryan Breguet. DC had similar thoughts as well. So there might be a growing consensus (ok, consensus might be an exaggeration) by grassroots supporters as to what they want the Conservative party to pursue electorally. But the party establishment and media probably have other ideas.
The advice given by media pundits is not in good faith but that's another story.

Agreed. The party establishment might suffer from bubble mentality and massive blind spots, but they come by their strategy honestly. Certain media figures, not so much.*

Thinking especially here of Andrew Coyne castigating the Tories for an entire campaign for being insufficiently committed to the free market before voting NDP.

[King of Kensington]

Coyne is probably the only Canadian Alliance '00/Liberal '11/NDP '15 voter in Canada.

[Central Lake]

Wait Andrew Coyne voted for the NDP

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Wait Andrew Coyne voted for the NDP

In 2015, yeah.

He's...a weird fella. His policy views tend to align more with the tories in a small-c conservative way, his cultural affiliation is very much with a certain "Laurentian Consensus" represented by the LPC, and I think he endorsed the NDP in 2015 to avoid a majority government, or some 3D chess idea like that.

I actually kinda like Andrew Coyne's instincts on a lot of policy issues and post-hoc analysis of political events. But I don't know why anyone would take his endorsements seriously, because he represents a demographic of Canadian voters best described as "Andrew Coyne and literally nobody else"

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

"59% of U.S. Voters Support Canadian Truckers in ‘Freedom Convoy’ Protest"

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://twitter.com/RebelNewsOnline/status/1494115333136867329


Trudeau is a fascist

[T'Chenka]

Trudeau is a fascist

It's just an illegal occupation at this point. They've made their point. Everybody in Canada and tens of millions of Americans knows about the convoy and what they're fighting for. They raised the awareness of their cause to a national level, which is the mission objective of a protest. So the "protest" part is over. Mission accomplished. Occupying Ottawa forever going forward isn't doing anything to help their cause politically, in terms of changing the minds of Canadians, who could then put political pressure on the politicians to change the policy.  The people have heard what the protestors have to say, and the majority of them aren't interested in creating political pressure for change.

So now, the only way these people can hope to change things politically is by holding the city hostage. So, I guess, it's kind of like "non-violent terrorism". Not a great term, I'm sorry, I can't think of anything better. Meaning, they're just trying to f__k over the government. Which is NOT the same thing as a legal political protest. So now, at this point, the government to going to stop allowing the obstruction to continue. Which is reasonable.

[Badger]

They are going to end up barring people from banking for life, without due process
https://twitter.com/drrollergator/status/1493738584884404227?s=20&t=owkJARet...

There should be a general strike in Canada

There won't be, most people don't stand with the far right convoy people.

[Benjamin Frank]

"59% of U.S. Voters Support Canadian Truckers in ‘Freedom Convoy’ Protest"

Rasmussen, lol.

[Badger]

Has it actually dawned upon  Is any critic of the Canadian government's action here that  Freezing the bank accounts of The protesters Until they cease illegally trespassing and shutting down the roads as they have been for weeks  Is is an infinitely more humane and Is non violent response than the typical American version of sending in cops with truncheons and tear gas?

I mean, would suddenly all the conservatives on this thread be mollified in saying "well, now THAT'S  okay"  If The Canadian cops suddenly started storming these trucks And dragging their owners out by force at gunpoint? I don't think so.

 And, if the fundamental response of the Fox News brigade of such critics is, "well, they shouldn't be punished, because they are RIGHT!1!!",  It bears repeating that Canadians overwhelmingly disagree with that premise, and are quite rightly telling such  right wing critics from South of the border to f##k off.

[Badger]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/trudeau-plans-record-number-of-immigrants-to-canada-through-2024-1.1723412

Trudeau plans to increase immigration to record levels through 2024.

I'm not Canadian and I of course do not know all the details on this, but I can't imagine this will be good in terms of the already horrific housing affordability crisis up north.

A great point. After all Canada is known for having such a densely packed population.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

"59% of U.S. Voters Support Canadian Truckers in ‘Freedom Convoy’ Protest"

Rasmussen, lol.

I'd prefer a better pollster asked the question but I'd be willing to put down money that a majority of Americans (at least of those with an opinion) are pro-trucker. The story is basically tailor made red meat for the 2022 Republican base while not offering much for Democrats to fight back on; the corporate Democrats stopped caring once the Ambassador Bridge was cleared, the leftists (even leftists who typically shill incessantly for the establishment like Vaush) instantly recognized the threat Emergency Act style bank seizures pose to any protest movement, and almost nobody is still interested in dying on the hill of vaccine mandates.

I thought it would take days after the announcement for American news outlets to start talking about "the Trudeau regime" but it didn't even take hours

Has it actually dawned upon  Is any critic of the Canadian government's action here that  Freezing the bank accounts of The protesters Until they cease illegally trespassing and shutting down the roads as they have been for weeks  Is is an infinitely more humane and Is non violent response than the typical American version of sending in cops with truncheons and tear gas?

I mean, would suddenly all the conservatives on this thread be mollified in saying "well, now THAT'S  okay"  If The Canadian cops suddenly started storming these trucks And dragging their owners out by force at gunpoint? I don't think so.

 And, if the fundamental response of the Fox News brigade of such critics is, "well, they shouldn't be punished, because they are RIGHT!1!!",  It bears repeating that Canadians overwhelmingly disagree with that premise, and are quite rightly telling such  right wing critics from South of the border to f##k off.

That they're avoiding violence is commendable but that says more about recent police training practices than any action by the government. Ultimately the only thing that will end the occupation other than capitulation is an overwhelming number of police, something the Emergency Act does nothing whatsoever to provide.

The financial controls won't do much to stop the protest since they were never reliant on that money anyway. The real "value" is in intimidating the people who donated to the protest or who might donate to future "disfavoured" causes, a horrific precedent that was made explicit by that thuggish, unbefitting display from our Justice Minister. Russia implementing similar measures rightly attracted international condemnation but because Canada is a "sophisticated democracy" the supposed "human rights organizations" of the world are silent (Canadian civil liberties organizations are thankfully fight back though). As my favourite Russian dissident put it, someone who actually spent time in Putin's prisons, in two weeks Canada fell down a path that took Russia a decade.

https://twitter.com/svtv_news/status/1493379432156995586

[Badger]

"59% of U.S. Voters Support Canadian Truckers in ‘Freedom Convoy’ Protest"

Rasmussen, lol.

I'd prefer a better pollster asked the question but I'd be willing to put down money that a majority of Americans (at least of those with an opinion) are pro-trucker. The story is basically tailor made red meat for the 2022 Republican base while not offering much for Democrats to fight back on; the corporate Democrats stopped caring once the Ambassador Bridge was cleared, the leftists (even leftists who typically shill incessantly for the establishment like Vaush) instantly recognized the threat Emergency Act style bank seizures pose to any protest movement, and almost nobody is still interested in dying on the hill of vaccine mandates.

I thought it would take days after the announcement for American news outlets to start talking about "the Trudeau regime" but it didn't even take hours

Has it actually dawned upon  Is any critic of the Canadian government's action here that  Freezing the bank accounts of The protesters Until they cease illegally trespassing and shutting down the roads as they have been for weeks  Is is an infinitely more humane and Is non violent response than the typical American version of sending in cops with truncheons and tear gas?

I mean, would suddenly all the conservatives on this thread be mollified in saying "well, now THAT'S  okay"  If The Canadian cops suddenly started storming these trucks And dragging their owners out by force at gunpoint? I don't think so.

 And, if the fundamental response of the Fox News brigade of such critics is, "well, they shouldn't be punished, because they are RIGHT!1!!",  It bears repeating that Canadians overwhelmingly disagree with that premise, and are quite rightly telling such  right wing critics from South of the border to f##k off.

That they're avoiding violence is commendable but that says more about recent police training practices than any action by the government. Ultimately the only thing that will end the occupation other than capitulation is an overwhelming number of police, something the Emergency Act does nothing whatsoever to provide.

The financial controls won't do much to stop the protest since they were never reliant on that money anyway. The real "value" is in intimidating the people who donated to the protest or who might donate to future "disfavoured" causes, a horrific precedent that was made explicit by that thuggish, unbefitting display from our Justice Minister. Russia implementing similar measures rightly attracted international condemnation but because Canada is a "sophisticated democracy" the supposed "human rights organizations" of the world are silent (Canadian civil liberties organizations are thankfully fight back though). As my favourite Russian dissident put it, someone who actually spent time in Putin's prisons, in two weeks Canada fell down a path that took Russia a decade.

https://twitter.com/svtv_news/status/1493379432156995586

 An extraordinary post. You may have changed my mind on the subject. Perhaps what is needed is a strong police presence Similar to what was necessary to shut down CHAZ in Seattle. 

And whereas just about every red avatar on Atlas Then said "about time", It'll be fun to hear all the good little "F##k Antifa! Smash BLM!"  posters squeal like piggies when that happens.

[StateBoiler]

Has it actually dawned upon  Is any critic of the Canadian government's action here that  Freezing the bank accounts of The protesters Until they cease illegally trespassing and shutting down the roads as they have been for weeks  Is is an infinitely more humane and Is non violent response than the typical American version of sending in cops with truncheons and tear gas?

Has it actually dawned upon you that you've legitimized this course of action for dealing with any form of protest in the future for all future governments, including ones whose political motives disagree from yours?

[Flyersfan232]

https://twitter.com/vaushv/status/1493626254553018373?s=21

broken clock is right twice a day

[Holmes]

This whole Freedom Convoy thing is so stupid and Americans are so annoying.

[DC Al Fine]

The Canadian Civil Liberties Association is taking the government to court over their invocation of the Emergencies Act.