Israeli General Election: April 9, 2019

[Hnv1]

Eventful day. ZU no more, Gabbay announces it’s over

[danny]

Gabbay dumped Livni live and right in front of her, it was a very entertaining moment.

[America Needs R'hllor]

This move is hard because I like Livni a lot- despite being a victim of political double-standard, she was always ideologically consistent and fought for her views, she's a wonderful leader and was one of our best Foreign Ministresses, and she'd definitely make a much better Prime Minister than Gabbay. But with all the pain, with the ZU polling at single digits this union no longer made much sense, taking Labour seats and not really giving much. I hope she finds a place in politics and continues, but for now, I have to say it's probably a good political move. Maybe now Labour can start recovering.

[Mike88]

This election is shaping up to be a "walk in the park" for Netanyahu.

Anyway, interesting graph, i found, about the history of Israeli elections since 1949:

[Hnv1]

Gabbay dumped Livni live and right in front of her, it was a very entertaining moment.

It was like watching David Levy reborn. And as he’s such a small man that would also be his downfall. Only plus side maybe Labour can finally die.

[Conservatopia]

Appears to be a trend of MKs moving from Kulanu to Likud or am I mistaken?
Source: Hayom

Hopefully all the dying parties are cleared out by New Right (on the right) and Hosen on the left.

[Former President tack50]

This election is shaping up to be a "walk in the park" for Netanyahu.

Anyway, interesting graph, i found, about the history of Israeli elections since 1949:

Israel seems to have moved a lot to the right since independence, why?

[jaichind]

Israel seems to have moved a lot to the right since independence, why?

My impression is that Ashkenazi Jews lean Left and Sephardi Jews lean Right and that over time relative size of Sephardi Jews population has been going up.   Also the Russian Jews that moved into Israel in the early 1990s also lean Right.

[Famous Mortimer]

Gabbay dumped Livni live and right in front of her, it was a very entertaining moment.

It was like watching David Levy reborn. And as he’s such a small man that would also be his downfall. Only plus side maybe Labour can finally die.

Explain to me this reference. I know who David Levy is. What did he do that was similar?

[America Needs R'hllor]

Israel seems to have moved a lot to the right since independence, why?

My impression is that Ashkenazi Jews lean Left and Sephardi Jews lean Right and that over time relative size of Sephardi Jews population has been going up.   Also the Russian Jews that moved into Israel in the early 1990s also lean Right.

That's a bit of an oversimplication imo. The matter in Israel isn't really demographic like in the U.S.- here it's more a matter of the public, as a whole, just moving right. It might be attributed to the continuous failures of the peace process and the terrorism that followed radicalizing much of the public and making it cynical to peace processes, but I don't think that Mizrahi Jews growing in amount makes much of an impact, since the younger generations are much less secterian anyway.

[Hnv1]

Gabbay dumped Livni live and right in front of her, it was a very entertaining moment.

It was like watching David Levy reborn. And as he’s such a small man that would also be his downfall. Only plus side maybe Labour can finally die.

Explain to me this reference. I know who David Levy is. What did he do that was similar?

Ahhhh...well the whole vengeful act to regain his honour and pride. It was the Moroccan stereotype on live TV

[Hnv1]

Israel seems to have moved a lot to the right since independence, why?

My impression is that Ashkenazi Jews lean Left and Sephardi Jews lean Right and that over time relative size of Sephardi Jews population has been going up.   Also the Russian Jews that moved into Israel in the early 1990s also lean Right.

That's a bit of an oversimplication imo. The matter in Israel isn't really demographic like in the U.S.- here it's more a matter of the public, as a whole, just moving right. It might be attributed to the continuous failures of the peace process and the terrorism that followed radicalizing much of the public and making it cynical to peace processes, but I don't think that Mizrahi Jews growing in amount makes much of an impact, since the younger generations are much less secterian anyway.

I would say that’s right, the younger generation are a less spoken about it but it’s clearly still an issue.

Also younger culture is overwhelmingly more Sephardi even the Ashkrnaz listen to their terrible pop and repeat the ridiculous stereotypes about warmth and community.

The fact is that the right shift doesn’t have a single cause, it’s demographics it’s the peace process it’s inherent Jewish sentiment it’s the militaristic culture that was always here it’s the pathetic state of the left. And more

[mileslunn]

Isn't the rightward swing also due to religious Jews tending to have a higher birth rate than more secular ones and since often but not always children follow parent's politics?  On the Ashkenazi vs. Sephardi and Mizhari, actually many are nowadays a mixture anyways.  Unlike in the US where most Jews are white, in Israel has a much larger chunk look Middle Eastern, while many younger ones have more of a tan/olive complexion so not as dark as Arabs but darker than your typical American Jew since they are mixed Ashkenazi and Sephardi rather than one.  In addition amongst many younger Israelis, they don't remember the days when the possibility of peace looked plausible and have just come to accept Israel will always be under threat thus favour the right who is stronger on security (Is there any country where that is not the case?)

[warandwar]

Gonna skip over that long wall of goysplaining

IMO, what we're seeing are the internal contradictions of Labour Zionism come to bite them in the back (being a labour party that does not, by-and-large, rep working class interests, the downfall of the kibbutzes, the wink-wink two-step w/ the settlers, maintaining a colony w/i a "democratic" state).

For the "left" in Israel and Palestine to have any hope at achieving collective liberation, it's going to have to move beyond Zionism.

Dov Khenin, I think, has it right:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Gonna skip over that long wall of goysplaining

IMO, what we're seeing are the internal contradictions of Labour Zionism come to bite them in the back (being a labour party that does not, by-and-large, rep working class interests, the downfall of the kibbutzes, the wink-wink two-step w/ the settlers, maintaining a colony w/i a "democratic" state).

For the "left" in Israel and Palestine to have any hope at achieving collective liberation, it's going to have to move beyond Zionism.

Dov Khenin, I think, has it right:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You can't just complain about goysplaining and then seriously suggest a strategy that will bring any leftist Jewish party below the threshold

[warandwar]

Gonna skip over that long wall of goysplaining

IMO, what we're seeing are the internal contradictions of Labour Zionism come to bite them in the back (being a labour party that does not, by-and-large, rep working class interests, the downfall of the kibbutzes, the wink-wink two-step w/ the settlers, maintaining a colony w/i a "democratic" state).

For the "left" in Israel and Palestine to have any hope at achieving collective liberation, it's going to have to move beyond Zionism.

Dov Khenin, I think, has it right:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You can't just complain about goysplaining and then seriously suggest a strategy that will bring any leftist Jewish party below the threshold

I only said "achieving collective liberation" - I am under no illusions that it would prove electorally successful in 2019 (tho I don't think the Labor Party will be either). As Khenin's quote says, the work isn't going to be done from w/i the Knesset right now.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Gonna skip over that long wall of goysplaining

IMO, what we're seeing are the internal contradictions of Labour Zionism come to bite them in the back (being a labour party that does not, by-and-large, rep working class interests, the downfall of the kibbutzes, the wink-wink two-step w/ the settlers, maintaining a colony w/i a "democratic" state).

For the "left" in Israel and Palestine to have any hope at achieving collective liberation, it's going to have to move beyond Zionism.

Dov Khenin, I think, has it right:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You can't just complain about goysplaining and then seriously suggest a strategy that will bring any leftist Jewish party below the threshold

I only said "achieving collective liberation" - I am under no illusions that it would prove electorally successful in 2019 (tho I don't think the Labor Party will be either). As Khenin's quote says, the work isn't going to be done from w/i the Knesset right now.

But still, most of the left-leaning Israelis don't adhere to Marxist theory. For most of us, "collective liberation" is nothing but a fantasy at best or a Marxist indoctrination at worst.
Of course communists wouldn't believe in zionism- after all, communists don't believe in any nationality, and I'm ok with that in a conceptual sense. It's not like the actual radical left antisemites who believe in Palestinian nationality or any other sorts of nationalism but not Jewish nationalism. But as someone who doesn't believe in Marxism, and I think many Israeli leftists agree with me, Zionism is an important stalwart of my ideology.
And in the end, one of the best arguments for the 2SS is a zionist one- it's the only way to keep a Jewish state in the long term.
So yeah, the zionist left is here to stay. In this election, as many of its less ideological voters bleed to the center parties, it'll probably be struck a huge electoral blow as Meretz remains in the 5-7 seats and Labour is reduced to single digits. But it's here to stay.

[FredLindq]

I have checked Wikipedia for the labeling off the centrist and right-wing parties contesting the elections.

Do you agree with the labeling:

-Yesh Atid, Yair Lapid, Centre

-Israel Resilience Party, Benny Gantz, Centre  but  Centre-right in security issues??
-Kulanu, Moshe Kahlon, Centre to centre-right

-Gesher, Orly Levy, Have not seen any labeling here. Centre-right or right-wing???
-Likud, Benjamin Netanyahu, Centre-right to right-wing

-Yisrael Beiteinu, Avigdor Lieberman, Right-wing
-New Right, Naftali Bennett and Ayelet Shaked, Right-wing
-The Jewish Home, ?, Right-wing to far-right

-Shas, Aryeh Deri, Social: Right-wing, Economic: Centre-left
-United Torah Judaism, Yaakov Litzman and Moshe Gafni, Right-wing

[FredLindq]

Likud and Bibi has cooperated both with the right-wing and religious parties as well as Labour and Yesh Atid.

My guess is that he and Likud will make some kind off deal with the centrist parties this time.  Do you agree?

[Hnv1]

Gonna skip over that long wall of goysplaining

IMO, what we're seeing are the internal contradictions of Labour Zionism come to bite them in the back (being a labour party that does not, by-and-large, rep working class interests, the downfall of the kibbutzes, the wink-wink two-step w/ the settlers, maintaining a colony w/i a "democratic" state).

For the "left" in Israel and Palestine to have any hope at achieving collective liberation, it's going to have to move beyond Zionism.

Dov Khenin, I think, has it right:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

He’s talking about their delusional grassroots movement “Standing Together”, for Hadash members who didn’t like the way the party runs. But thanks for the redsplaining

[warandwar]

Gonna skip over that long wall of goysplaining

IMO, what we're seeing are the internal contradictions of Labour Zionism come to bite them in the back (being a labour party that does not, by-and-large, rep working class interests, the downfall of the kibbutzes, the wink-wink two-step w/ the settlers, maintaining a colony w/i a "democratic" state).

For the "left" in Israel and Palestine to have any hope at achieving collective liberation, it's going to have to move beyond Zionism.

Dov Khenin, I think, has it right:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

He’s talking about their delusional grassroots movement “Standing Together”, for Hadash members who didn’t like the way the party runs. But thanks for the redsplaining

I didn't know Standing Together was officially connected to Hadash. Tbh, I'm not the biggest fan of their organizing model.
Sorry about the "redsplaining," i can't help it sometimes, I'm descended from Judeo-Bolsheviks

[danny]

I have checked Wikipedia for the labeling off the centrist and right-wing parties contesting the elections.

Do you agree with the labeling:

-Yesh Atid, Yair Lapid, Centre

All these labels depend on the on how you define left and right, with the most common being about the borders of the country and what should be given up in a peace treaty or things like the attitude towards the supreme court.
Yesh Atid's main goal appears to be trying to appear as centrist as possible, so this one is fine.

-Israel Resilience Party, Benny Gantz, Centre  but  Centre-right in security issues??

Security is what makes someone right/left so I don't know what it would mean to separate them this way. In any case Gantz hasn't been expressing his opinion on anything which is generally a sign of centrism.

-Kulanu, Moshe Kahlon, Centre to centre-right

This seems right, to the left of Likud, but also closer to it than Lapid

-Gesher, Orly Levy, Have not seen any labeling here. Centre-right or right-wing???

While she used to be part of Yisrael Beitenu she was to the left of her party so maybe centrist on security but relatively left on economic issues.

-Likud, Benjamin Netanyahu, Centre-right to right-wing

Yes

-Yisrael Beiteinu, Avigdor Lieberman, Right-wing

I don't think they are to the right of Likud although Lieberman doe like to give that impression.

-New Right, Naftali Bennett and Ayelet Shaked, Right-wing

Yes

-The Jewish Home, ?, Right-wing to far-right

It won't be just the Jewish Home running as there should be some unions, but whatever happens, this party should be to the right of all the others mentioned here.

-Shas, Aryeh Deri, Social: Right-wing, Economic: Centre-left

Sure, but in addition Deri himself can be pretty moderate on security issues while their electorate is right wing. so it can alternate a bit, but will usually follow along with whatever Bibi wants on these matters.

-United Torah Judaism, Yaakov Litzman and Moshe Gafni, Right-wing

This party is about their conservative social issues and taking care of their religious sector rather than security issues. Their is some disagreement between the different parts of this party on security but since it isn't their focus they will generally just go along with whatever Bibi wants in return for supporting their issues.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

It's not even a good take. Lots of white nationalists find common cause with anti-zionists. Ahed Tamimi's white-presenting features were a huge clarion call for David Duke in particular. Tying Zionism/anti-Zionism to other forms of racism doesn't quite work, because anti-semitism has always very much been its own thing and functioned differently from other bigotries.

[Famous Mortimer]

It's not even a good take. Lots of white nationalists find common cause with anti-zionists. Ahed Tamimi's white-presenting features were a huge clarion call for David Duke in particular. Tying Zionism/anti-Zionism to other forms of racism doesn't quite work, because anti-semitism has always very much been its own thing and functioned differently from other bigotries.

I'm not talking about White Nationalists. White Nationalists are indeed hypocrites for supporting ethnic nationalism in their own countries and opposing it in Israel. They are clearly anti-Semites.

I'm talking about the left. The left is perfectly consistent. Every country must open its borders to poorer browner people. They are not anti-Semites. They are anti-white.

[Hnv1]

Gonna skip over that long wall of goysplaining

IMO, what we're seeing are the internal contradictions of Labour Zionism come to bite them in the back (being a labour party that does not, by-and-large, rep working class interests, the downfall of the kibbutzes, the wink-wink two-step w/ the settlers, maintaining a colony w/i a "democratic" state).

For the "left" in Israel and Palestine to have any hope at achieving collective liberation, it's going to have to move beyond Zionism.

Dov Khenin, I think, has it right:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

He’s talking about their delusional grassroots movement “Standing Together”, for Hadash members who didn’t like the way the party runs. But thanks for the redsplaining

I didn't know Standing Together was officially connected to Hadash. Tbh, I'm not the biggest fan of their organizing model.
Sorry about the "redsplaining," i can't help it sometimes, I'm descended from Judeo-Bolsheviks

Not officially as the communist party doesn’t not agree to activities which are not related to the party. But it was formed by Hadash activists who didn’t like Baracke or the joint list. I know some of their chiefs, they would happily return to party politics if they could (and I assume that’s the plan from what I gather).