Trump/Putin disaster summit. And also overseas visit w/ NATO & UK.

[ProudModerate2]

https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney/status/1018908769969934336

"Deeply troubled" Republican releases meaningless statement and continues to do absolutely nothing to actually fix the problem, part 9750.

True, she should abandon her beliefs on taxes!!

This. Just because one criticizes Trump or dislikes him does not mean that they should abandon their core political beliefs.

Doesn't mean she should continue to turn a blind eye to Trump's treason.

What Trump did at the meeting was wrong, but it does not rise to the level of treason. Until we have definitive proof that Trump actively colluded with the Russian Government or did anything else criminal, I will not call him a traitor, nor will I demand his impeachment.

Jesus.
Are people really being this willfully obtuse?

Not obtuse at all. I've been following the Mueller investigation in the news, but I want to see it proceed through all its work, and for all the facts to come out, before I jump to conclusions. I don't want to be demanding impeachment or calling Trump a traitor until the information has emerged explicitly implicating him in unlawful or criminal activity. I don't agree with what Trump did at the Putin meeting today, but it does not rise to the standard that many on here think it does. Trump is misguided, and I do believe that he is hiding something. But what he said at the conference cannot be construed as treason, as our Constitution defines it.

The word "treason," "treasonous," "treachery" is used in different ways by members in society everyday. It doesn't have to be used in a perfect "as the Constitution defines it" manner.
Stop with your robot mechanics to everything, everyone says.
Loosen up, Good God. Are you an accountant?

[Yellowhammer]

Every person who voted for Trump in 2016 and still supports him today despite this event is now a traitor to the country.

lol

Yeah, that's quite hyperbolic. The truth is that the blue avatars are vapid, useful idiots... but not traitors.

Agreed. Honestly even though I’m as outraged as he is I’m close to putting Special k on ignore

I'm dismayed by Trump's performance today, and Trump isn't being as firm towards Russia as he should be, but accusing him (and tens of millions of Americans) of treason over this is ridiculous. We are not at war with Russia.

You don't have to be officially "at war" with another nation (like Russia) in order to commit treason.

Treason as defined by the Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

There's a conjunction "or" in the first sentence.  This would fall under the second part, if Russia is an enemy of the United States.

Trump is not giving Russia aid or comfort, and Russia is not an enemy of the United States.

Trump is literally doing Putin's bidding (ex. Attacking NATO and weaken western institutions).

Was Obama doing Putin's bidding when he effusively praised his leadership?
Quote: “I’m aware of not only the extraordinary work that you’ve done on behalf of the Russian people ... as president, but in your current role as prime minister,”

Did Obama not also do Putin's bidding when he told Dmitry Medvedev that  "After my election, I will have more flexibility," to make better deals for Russia?

I didn't hear anyone on the left shriek with rage when Obama was getting cozy with Putin then, but they're rushing to do it now.
It's true that Trump deserves criticism for his actions, and he isn't being firm enough against Russia, but the hysteria on the left over this is very exaggerated.

[ProudModerate2]

Every person who voted for Trump in 2016 and still supports him today despite this event is now a traitor to the country.

lol

Yeah, that's quite hyperbolic. The truth is that the blue avatars are vapid, useful idiots... but not traitors.

Agreed. Honestly even though I’m as outraged as he is I’m close to putting Special k on ignore

I'm dismayed by Trump's performance today, and Trump isn't being as firm towards Russia as he should be, but accusing him (and tens of millions of Americans) of treason over this is ridiculous. We are not at war with Russia.

You don't have to be officially "at war" with another nation (like Russia) in order to commit treason.

Treason as defined by the Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

There's a conjunction "or" in the first sentence.  This would fall under the second part, if Russia is an enemy of the United States.

Trump is not giving Russia aid or comfort, and Russia is not an enemy of the United States.

Trump is literally doing Putin's bidding (ex. Attacking NATO and weaken western institutions).

Was Obama doing Putin's bidding when he effusively praised his leadership?
Quote: “I’m aware of not only the extraordinary work that you’ve done on behalf of the Russian people ... as president, but in your current role as prime minister,”

Did Obama not also do Putin's bidding when he told Dmitry Medvedev that  "After my election, I will have more flexibility," to make better deals for Russia?

I didn't hear anyone on the left shriek with rage when Obama was getting cozy with Putin then, but they're rushing to do it now.
It's true that Trump deserves criticism for his actions, and he isn't being firm enough against Russia, but the hysteria on the left over this is very exaggerated.

Only on the left?
There is quite a-bit of "hysteria" happening on the right as well (Senators, Congress members, former GOP head officials, etc, etc.)

[Torie]

https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney/status/1018908769969934336

"Deeply troubled" Republican releases meaningless statement and continues to do absolutely nothing to actually fix the problem, part 9750.

True, she should abandon her beliefs on taxes!!

I get why you're saying that, but I don't really think you understand where most people are coming from on this. Voting against Trump's priorities is one of the only ways Congress can put pressure on Trump. By refusing to do this, they are essentially ceding the fight, if they ever intended to fight with him to begin with. I don't think any of them have even tried to pressure Trump by withholding votes on policy or executive/judicial confirmations.

Maybe if Republicans actually give a crap, they could use everything at their disposal to pressure not only Trump but Paul Ryan as well - to end Republican obstruction of Mueller's investigation via useless document requests, impeachment threats, and a completely botched (on purpose) House Intel. Cmte. investigation, where Ryan allowed Nunes & friends to run wild defending Trump no matter what he had to say or do.

So at the end of the day, all these statements by "concerned" Republicans are as worthless as used toilet paper. They could try and do something, but they won't, because they value party over country and their job over everything else.

Well perhaps the Pubs this time will do something other than chatter. Perhaps. Or, perhaps more likely, Trump will try to walk back some of what he said, and maybe give the Pubs some cover for doing nothing but chatter. Just what should be done to punish Trump is another matter. Sure, give off the Mueller kick, and rein in the investigations as you suggest. But what else?

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney/status/1018908769969934336

"Deeply troubled" Republican releases meaningless statement and continues to do absolutely nothing to actually fix the problem, part 9750.

True, she should abandon her beliefs on taxes!!

This. Just because one criticizes Trump or dislikes him does not mean that they should abandon their core political beliefs.

Where did anyone say anything about "abandoning beliefs on taxes" or "their core political beliefs." The passage is about what trump did today. And the post made by the Atlas member in question, is commenting on attempting to fix (with more vigor from GOP in Congress) that specific problem.

THIS. Flake et al. don't have to vote like loyal Democrats, I'd just like to see them hold up things in the Senate until, for instance, a law is enacted (or at least passed by the Senate) to protect Mueller, or until the Senate subpoenas and releases Trump's tax returns, or something else similar to that. There is so much the Congress could be doing that is totally non-ideological to reign Trump in, but the people with the power to make it happen refuse to do so.

[ProudModerate2]

The funny thing is, if the FBI did actually "show" Trump the server, he would have no idea what he's looking for anyway. Trump doesn't know anything about computers. Like, literally nothing. So him saying that he really needs to "see" the server means nothing. He's just too egotistical to know that. He thinks he is so smart that he'll just figure it out.

And much of the evidence isn't going to be found on the server anyway. You'll find malware and logs, but the IP addresses and other information US intelligence hacked from overseas targets is not on the DNC server. And, actually, considering CrowdStrike cleaned the DNC's servers, I doubt there is much of anything on the actual server, come to think of it.

The United States has, arguably, the most sophisticated surveillance apparatus in the world. If they are overwhelmingly stating that Russia did this, and Mueller is filing indictments of specific people they caught hacking, then yes, that should be more than enough for Trump. But he refuses to acknowledge it because he doesn't want to. He has connections to Russia, and they are all that matter to him. They matter to him so much that he would sell America out on live television in front of the Russian president. That should worry everyone, especially Republicans, who for some reason thought he would put America first.

Trump is a complete disgrace to America, and it is things like this that make it incredibly dumbfounding how Republicans could pick HIM of all people to lead this country.

Yes.
I think trump says things like "the server" because he knows it will make a good talking-point for Faux News and for his cultists to swallow.
It doesn't take much "logic" (if any at all) from their Orange God, for trumpers to attach to and believe-in.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Newt!

https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1018967261418344450

[Virginiá]

Yes.
I think trump says things like "the server" because he knows it will make a good talking-point for Faux News and for his cultists to swallow.
It doesn't take much "logic" (if any at all) from their Orange God, for trumpers to attach to and believe-in.

Welp, Giuliani did say it after all - their entire smear campaign is based on turning the public against Mueller's investigation so as to protect Trump from impeachment. To them, it doesn't matter if Trump is guilty as sin. Their #1 goal is to keep him in office, no matter what. So they will fling whatever feces / insults / blatantly false accusations they have to so long as they think it might help even a little bit.

This is the part of politics that is most sickening, imo. It's the kind of thing that can take an honest person interested in politics and completely break their spirit, as they come to realize that our system is so broken and the people are so partisan that they would rather keep a criminal in office who favors our long-time foreign enemy of his own countrymen.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Newt!

https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1018967261418344450

It wasn't a mistake.

[GeorgiaModerate]

The summit prompted an Ohio GOP county chairman to resign:

https://twitter.com/cgagin/status/1018965201364901899

[Virginiá]

Newt!

https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1018967261418344450

lol, "clarify" is the word you use when something is ambiguous / not easy to understand. Trump's statement was rather clear in its meaning.

Love it when pols use the word "clarify" like this. Such weakness.

[ProudModerate2]

Newt!

https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1018967261418344450

Somewhat of a neutral comment on this outrageous incident, but still good enough (I guess).

[Badger]

Sad state of affairs; I'd vote to impeach

Somewhat shocked by this response.

As am I, but I commend him for saying so.

[ProudModerate2]

Newt!

https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1018967261418344450

It wasn't a mistake.

lol, "clarify" is the word you use when something is ambiguous / not easy to understand. Trump's statement was rather clear in its meaning.
Love it when pols use the word "clarify" like this. Such weakness.

Very true. Good points.

[Badger]

Every person who voted for Trump in 2016 and still supports him today despite this event is now a traitor to the country.

lol

Yeah, that's quite hyperbolic. The truth is that the blue avatars are vapid, useful idiots... but not traitors.

Agreed. Honestly even though I’m as outraged as he is I’m close to putting Special k on ignore

I'm dismayed by Trump's performance today, and Trump isn't being as firm towards Russia as he should be, but accusing him (and tens of millions of Americans) of treason over this is ridiculous. We are not at war with Russia.

You don't have to be officially "at war" with another nation (like Russia) in order to commit treason.

Treason as defined by the Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

This is the strict Constitutional definition, and though I don't approve of Trump's behavior at the meeting with Putin, I think that the claims of him being a traitor are way overblown. Many of the same individuals who are accusing Trump of treason are the same ones who wish for his impeachment. And of course, I am aware that former President Obama had to deal with the same sort of thing from those in the Republican base. But either way, it is overblown and out of proportion to the situation at hand.

Just because some Republicans wanted Obama impeached and now some Democrats want Trump impeached does NOT mean they had equally (in)valid claims for doing so. Whataboutism will only carry an argument so far.

[Yellowhammer]

Every person who voted for Trump in 2016 and still supports him today despite this event is now a traitor to the country.

lol

Well, with emphasis on that second part, why not?

Even if Trump is a traitor (he isn't,) you can't be a traitor by supporting a traitor, just as you cannot be a thief simply because you support a thief.
You have to deliberately commit the act of treason yourself in order to be a traitor.

[Calthrina950]

Every person who voted for Trump in 2016 and still supports him today despite this event is now a traitor to the country.

lol

Yeah, that's quite hyperbolic. The truth is that the blue avatars are vapid, useful idiots... but not traitors.

Agreed. Honestly even though I’m as outraged as he is I’m close to putting Special k on ignore

I'm dismayed by Trump's performance today, and Trump isn't being as firm towards Russia as he should be, but accusing him (and tens of millions of Americans) of treason over this is ridiculous. We are not at war with Russia.

You don't have to be officially "at war" with another nation (like Russia) in order to commit treason.

Treason as defined by the Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

This is the strict Constitutional definition, and though I don't approve of Trump's behavior at the meeting with Putin, I think that the claims of him being a traitor are way overblown. Many of the same individuals who are accusing Trump of treason are the same ones who wish for his impeachment. And of course, I am aware that former President Obama had to deal with the same sort of thing from those in the Republican base. But either way, it is overblown and out of proportion to the situation at hand.

Just because some Republicans wanted Obama impeached and now some Democrats want Trump impeached does NOT mean they had equally (in)valid claims for doing so. Whataboutism will only carry an argument so far.

Whataboutism? I was merely stating that both sides have engaged in this kind of rhetoric, and I don't condone such calls until we have legitimate proof that Trump himself engaged in collusion or in unlawful, criminal acts. Yes, many individuals have been indicted, pleaded guilty, or are facing criminal charges. But until it is demonstrably proven that Trump himself committed an impeachable offense, I will not support these calls.

[Badger]

Newt!

https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1018967261418344450

Somewhat of a neutral comment on this outrageous incident, but still good enough (I guess).

Newt is merely signaling "WALK IT BACK, DONALD!! WALK IT BAAAACCKK!!!!!"

Nothing more, nothing less.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Putin is apparently doing interviews with Fox News now

[ProudModerate2]

Yes.
I think trump says things like "the server" because he knows it will make a good talking-point for Faux News and for his cultists to swallow.
It doesn't take much "logic" (if any at all) from their Orange God, for trumpers to attach to and believe-in.

Welp, Giuliani did say it after all - their entire smear campaign is based on turning the public against Mueller's investigation so as to protect Trump from impeachment. To them, it doesn't matter if Trump is guilty as sin. Their #1 goal is to keep him in office, no matter what. So they will fling whatever feces / insults / blatantly false accusations they have to so long as they think it might help even a little bit.

This is the part of politics that is most sickening, imo. It's the kind of thing that can take an honest person interested in politics and completely break their spirit, as they come to realize that our system is so broken and the people are so partisan that they would rather keep a criminal in office who favors our long-time foreign enemy of his own countrymen.

If the trump/Giuliani legal-clown-car thinks that the Orange One's words today regarding "the server" was any help to them, they are gravely mistaken.
If you take the entire trump/Putin press meeting today as a whole, then this is a huge (and I mean HUGE) setback for them in regards to their "smear campaign on turning the public against the Mueller investigation."
More people than ever, will want the investigation to go forward, as many have lost complete trust in trump (regarding Russia/Putin).

Today is a huge victory for Mueller and his investigation!
He played his cards perfectly well, with the timing of releasing the indictments on those 12 Russians, and it is paying-off greatly.
The Orange Clown fell for it, hook-line-and-sinker!

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

[ProudModerate2]

https://twitter.com/Comey/status/1018965071786110976

[ProudModerate2]

Putin is apparently doing interviews with Fox News now

OMG, I thought you were kidding.
Is that happening now? Was there any info that they were going to do this?

[Badger]

Every person who voted for Trump in 2016 and still supports him today despite this event is now a traitor to the country.

lol

Yeah, that's quite hyperbolic. The truth is that the blue avatars are vapid, useful idiots... but not traitors.

Agreed. Honestly even though I’m as outraged as he is I’m close to putting Special k on ignore

I'm dismayed by Trump's performance today, and Trump isn't being as firm towards Russia as he should be, but accusing him (and tens of millions of Americans) of treason over this is ridiculous. We are not at war with Russia.

You don't have to be officially "at war" with another nation (like Russia) in order to commit treason.

Treason as defined by the Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

This is the strict Constitutional definition, and though I don't approve of Trump's behavior at the meeting with Putin, I think that the claims of him being a traitor are way overblown. Many of the same individuals who are accusing Trump of treason are the same ones who wish for his impeachment. And of course, I am aware that former President Obama had to deal with the same sort of thing from those in the Republican base. But either way, it is overblown and out of proportion to the situation at hand.

Just because some Republicans wanted Obama impeached and now some Democrats want Trump impeached does NOT mean they had equally (in)valid claims for doing so. Whataboutism will only carry an argument so far.

Whataboutism? I was merely stating that both sides have engaged in this kind of rhetoric, and I don't condone such calls until we have legitimate proof that Trump himself engaged in collusion or in unlawful, criminal acts. Yes, many individuals have been indicted, pleaded guilty, or are facing criminal charges. But until it is demonstrably proven that Trump himself committed an impeachable offense, I will not support these calls.

Yes, our intelligence agencies' united unswerving opinion that Putin interfered in the US election, the fact our own intelligence agencies uniformly considered him to be compromised by the Kremlin, combined with numerous indictments and guilty pleas from the Mueller investigation, Trump's established covering evidence by demanding "loyalty" from Comey when discussing the investigation, and now his publicly refuting our nation's intelligence agencies in favor of the KGB's assessment, etc. etc. etc. etc. are ABSOLUTELY the same as the "rhetoric" far right wingers raised for impeachment because--well, basically because they didn't like him.

And in your mind because a jury has not yet convicted Trump beyond a reasonable doubt, you find the two "comparable".

Yes, dude, this is the textbook definition of whataboutism. As are a majority of your posts for that matter.

[KingSweden]

Putin is apparently doing interviews with Fox News now

Chris Wallace is tougher on that thug than the CIC.

*facepalm*