MN-05: Not a topic about Israel, thank you very much

[Zaybay]

To end it off, In my opinion, lets see if what Omar does next. If she wins the primary, and continues to spout antisemitic derogatory language, then we should kick her from the caucus. But if she does not, then we should allow her in.

All I know is that MN-05 will be Blue, and will be a part of our national takeover of the House of Representatives.

Lets try to end this on a happy note!

[Jeppe]

To end it off, In my opinion, lets see if what Omar does next. If she wins the primary, and continues to spout antisemitic derogatory language, then we should kick her from the caucus. But if she does not, then we should allow her in.

All I know is that MN-05 will be Blue, and will be a part of our national takeover of the House of Representatives.

Lets try to end this on a happy note!

You can’t kick somebody out of a caucus, lol. This isn’t the UK. The worst they can do is remove her from her committee assignments.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Ignoring the tweets and all that (not that they're not an issue), I haven't heard an argument as to why Omar, a one term State Rep with no real accomplishments is preferable to Torres Ray, or even Margaret Anderson Kelliher, who are much more accomplished and also running on abolishing ICE and Medicare for all. Torres Ray was even the LG candidate for the most progressive Gubernatorial candidate in 2010 (and a single payer advocate before Sanders.) She's even an immigrant too if you care about that box checking.

[MAINEiac4434]

Ignoring the tweets and all that (not that they're not an issue), I haven't heard an argument as to why Omar, a one term State Rep with no real accomplishments is preferable to Torres Ray, or even Margaret Anderson Kelliher, who are much more accomplished and also running on abolishing ICE and Medicare for all. Torres Ray was even the LG candidate for the most progressive Gubernatorial candidate in 2010 (and a single payer advocate before Sanders.) She's even an immigrant too if you care about that box checking.

“Experience” is always a pretty dumb reason to back someone or not to back someone imho.

[Jeppe]

Sometimes a candidate just has a better life story and is more likable. She also has star power, after all, if elected, she’d be the only congressperson to appear in a Adam Levine music video, lol.

Nothing against Torres Ray or MAK, it’s too bad we have such a concentration of good candidates in MN-05 compared to some of the other Minnesota districts.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Sometimes a candidate just has a better life story and is more likable. She also has star power, after all, if elected, she’d be the only congressperson to appear in a Adam Levine music video, lol.

Nothing against Torres Ray or MAK, it’s too bad we have such a concentration of good candidates in MN-05 compared to some of the other Minnesota districts.

Definitely not a plus to me.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Ignoring the tweets and all that (not that they're not an issue), I haven't heard an argument as to why Omar, a one term State Rep with no real accomplishments is preferable to Torres Ray, or even Margaret Anderson Kelliher, who are much more accomplished and also running on abolishing ICE and Medicare for all. Torres Ray was even the LG candidate for the most progressive Gubernatorial candidate in 2010 (and a single payer advocate before Sanders.) She's even an immigrant too if you care about that box checking.

“Experience” is always a pretty dumb reason to back someone or not to back someone imho.

Still she was actually supporting single payer before it was cool.

[Zaybay]

Really, the district will get a good rep, no matter what.

[Indy Texas]

Well I might as well say my piece here at the risk of throwing more lighter fluid on this quite acrimonious and nasty exchange that has been going on in places above.

Given my assumptions, and  that millions of Jews actually live in Israel, surrounded by people who don't want them there at all, I find the path to be at once anti Zionist while not being anti Jewish, to be a very thin one indeed. My assumptions are that if the Jewish state is ended, Jews will soon become a minority there, with their lives becoming intolerable, and most will have to flee/leave attended by violence and death. Given such horrific prospects for the Jews living there, to wish the end of Jewish state is to wish very bad things to happen to millions of Jews. I suppose one can argue that is not anti-Semitism, because one thinks the Jews elsewhere are just fine, but that point of view does not do much for me, and I doubt it is very appealing to most Jews.

Granted, the path would be wider if one rejects my assumptions, and rather assumes that the end of the Jewish state would, perhaps after a rough patch, result in a pluralistic  secular  democracy like the US, in which basic individual  rights are protected by laws and independent courts attended by a culture that puts a very high premium on protecting such rights, where few really want horrible things to happen to a substantial number of its citizens, and differences are resolved peacefully. I don't see any evidence to support such an assumption, but others may just characterize me as blind, and that I need to see an ophthalmologist.  

Countries Bordering Israel:
Jordan -- has a peace treaty and diplomatic relations with Israel
Egypt -- has a peace treaty and diplomatic relations with Israel
Lebanon -- has never attacked Israel, but has been invaded by Israel multiple times
Syria -- is too busy setting itself on fire to do anything to anyone else

The whole "surrounded by enemies" argument simply doesn't hold anymore. The most hostile entity they are contending with is the Hamas-run Gaza Strip, which is so lacking in resources that the best they can do is set birds on fire and hope that they fly long enough to fall to the ground on the Israeli side of the border and start a brush fire. If that's your weapon of choice, you are not attacking from a position of strength and have no real ability to do anything.

You are talking about the most well-armed country in the region and the only Middle Eastern state with nuclear weapons capability. All of the countries surrounding it are some combination of (1) militarily incompetent, (2) dependent on the US for military/economic aid that would be withdrawn in the event of a confrontation with Israel, or (3) crippled by other issues such as civil war or economic sanctions. Tell me who you think is going to invade Israel and give me a plausible scenario for how that would play out.

I don't know what you mean by "if the Jewish state is ended." Granting civil and political rights to the people of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip does not take anything away from anyone else. It would be very easy for Israel to completely withdraw from the West Bank and in doing so, be left with territory that is something like 75% Jewish.

If they wanted to pad that figure more for good measure, they could simply cede some of the Arabic-speaking areas adjacent to the West Bank (in green on the map).

[Torie]

Anti Zionism to me means you don't want a Jewish state anywhere, and oppose a two state solution, that would still have a Jewish state within certain boundaries. Do you have a different definition?

[Chief Justice Keef]

Sometimes a candidate just has a better life story and is more likable. She also has star power, after all, if elected, she’d be the only congressperson to appear in a Adam Levine music video, lol.

Nothing against Torres Ray or MAK, it’s too bad we have such a concentration of good candidates in MN-05 compared to some of the other Minnesota districts.

Definitely not a plus to me.

Yeah, I was pretty much with Omar up until this point but after learning about her connections to Adam Levine & Co. I cannot in good conscience support her.

(BTW I would be happy if Torres Ray was the nominee as well.)

[Intell]

While I don't feel like Omar is anti-Semitic, I feel like she is not a good candidate for the democratic party and the progressive left and her positions on Israel-Palestine are not the best.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Well I might as well say my piece here at the risk of throwing more lighter fluid on this quite acrimonious and nasty exchange that has been going on in places above.

Given my assumptions, and  that millions of Jews actually live in Israel, surrounded by people who don't want them there at all, I find the path to be at once anti Zionist while not being anti Jewish, to be a very thin one indeed. My assumptions are that if the Jewish state is ended, Jews will soon become a minority there, with their lives becoming intolerable, and most will have to flee/leave attended by violence and death. Given such horrific prospects for the Jews living there, to wish the end of Jewish state is to wish very bad things to happen to millions of Jews. I suppose one can argue that is not anti-Semitism, because one thinks the Jews elsewhere are just fine, but that point of view does not do much for me, and I doubt it is very appealing to most Jews.

Granted, the path would be wider if one rejects my assumptions, and rather assumes that the end of the Jewish state would, perhaps after a rough patch, result in a pluralistic  secular  democracy like the US, in which basic individual  rights are protected by laws and independent courts attended by a culture that puts a very high premium on protecting such rights, where few really want horrible things to happen to a substantial number of its citizens, and differences are resolved peacefully. I don't see any evidence to support such an assumption, but others may just characterize me as blind, and that I need to see an ophthalmologist.  

Yeah this is an overlooked point. Omar may be fine with subdued Jews in her community, but by essentially calling the Arabs to "wake up" and end the Jewish state, she calls for thousands of Jews to be murdered. There's no escaping that.

For example, the Iranian Ayatollahs like their pet Jews. Does anyone doubt that the people who called for Israel to be "wiped off the map", which means a genocide of 7 million Jews, is an antisemite?

As for the calls to end this with "a happy note" and rejoice that MN-05 will be blue- no. I refuse. If the Democratic Party keeps electing people like Omar, it will be come the enemy of the Jewish people, just like the Republicans would become the enemy if they keep electing people like Corey Stewart. No escaping that. Healthcare, immigration and abortion are all important issues, but if the Democrats proclaim themselves against my very existence, I'll never support them. At this point, I'd probably not even support Dayton for a hypothetical reelection, considering his endorsement of Omar.

Ignoring the tweets and all that (not that they're not an issue), I haven't heard an argument as to why Omar, a one term State Rep with no real accomplishments is preferable to Torres Ray, or even Margaret Anderson Kelliher, who are much more accomplished and also running on abolishing ICE and Medicare for all. Torres Ray was even the LG candidate for the most progressive Gubernatorial candidate in 2010 (and a single payer advocate before Sanders.) She's even an immigrant too if you care about that box checking.

Maybe the Democrats want to signal their tolerance and liberalism, which is all fine as good, but they're doing it at the expense of Jews. Not that I'm surprised- we were always everyone's favourite punching bag. What's not to like for the far-right about a boogeyman that has strange traditions and looks like you but doesn't act like you, and yet seems annoyingly successful? What's not to like for far-leftists about a boogeyman with many wealthy and influential figures, that looks like you and thus can be punched without accusations of racism?

[Indy Texas]

There is a lot of daylight between asking you not to treat people who are different from you as second-class citizens and deny them their civil rights, and "denying your very existence."

[Zaybay]

Well I might as well say my piece here at the risk of throwing more lighter fluid on this quite acrimonious and nasty exchange that has been going on in places above.

Given my assumptions, and  that millions of Jews actually live in Israel, surrounded by people who don't want them there at all, I find the path to be at once anti Zionist while not being anti Jewish, to be a very thin one indeed. My assumptions are that if the Jewish state is ended, Jews will soon become a minority there, with their lives becoming intolerable, and most will have to flee/leave attended by violence and death. Given such horrific prospects for the Jews living there, to wish the end of Jewish state is to wish very bad things to happen to millions of Jews. I suppose one can argue that is not anti-Semitism, because one thinks the Jews elsewhere are just fine, but that point of view does not do much for me, and I doubt it is very appealing to most Jews.

Granted, the path would be wider if one rejects my assumptions, and rather assumes that the end of the Jewish state would, perhaps after a rough patch, result in a pluralistic  secular  democracy like the US, in which basic individual  rights are protected by laws and independent courts attended by a culture that puts a very high premium on protecting such rights, where few really want horrible things to happen to a substantial number of its citizens, and differences are resolved peacefully. I don't see any evidence to support such an assumption, but others may just characterize me as blind, and that I need to see an ophthalmologist. 

Yeah this is an overlooked point. Omar may be fine with subdued Jews in her community, but by essentially calling the Arabs to "wake up" and end the Jewish state, she calls for thousands of Jews to be murdered. There's no escaping that.

For example, the Iranian Ayatollahs like their pet Jews. Does anyone doubt that the people who called for Israel to be "wiped off the map", which means a genocide of 7 million Jews, is an antisemite?

As for the calls to end this with "a happy note" and rejoice that MN-05 will be blue- no. I refuse. If the Democratic Party keeps electing people like Omar, it will be come the enemy of the Jewish people, just like the Republicans would become the enemy if they keep electing people like Corey Stewart. No escaping that. Healthcare, immigration and abortion are all important issues, but if the Democrats proclaim themselves against my very existence, I'll never support them. At this point, I'd probably not even support Dayton for a hypothetical reelection, considering his endorsement of Omar.

Ignoring the tweets and all that (not that they're not an issue), I haven't heard an argument as to why Omar, a one term State Rep with no real accomplishments is preferable to Torres Ray, or even Margaret Anderson Kelliher, who are much more accomplished and also running on abolishing ICE and Medicare for all. Torres Ray was even the LG candidate for the most progressive Gubernatorial candidate in 2010 (and a single payer advocate before Sanders.) She's even an immigrant too if you care about that box checking.

Maybe the Democrats want to signal their tolerance and liberalism, which is all fine as good, but they're doing it at the expense of Jews. Not that I'm surprised- we were always everyone's favourite punching bag. What's not to like for the far-right about a boogeyman that has strange traditions and looks like you but doesn't act like you, and yet seems annoyingly successful? What's not to like for far-leftists about a boogeyman with many wealthy and influential figures, that looks like you and thus can be punched without accusations of racism?

You are really taking one tweet by a primary challenger in one district incredibly seriously. Shes not the new head of the Democratic Party, shes not going to lead Israeli-American Relations, and, this is important, shes not calling for your death. If she really was, no one would back her, Dayton and the entire MNDEM party are not morons.

Your starting to sound like the Republicans crying that the Dems are becoming "Communist" after electing AOC.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Both parties have lost their minds

[Jeppe]

With 91% reporting, Ilhan Omar has been declared the Democratic candidate for MN-05, leading her closest opponent, Margaret Anderson Kelliher, by a 48%-31% margin.

She will be the next Congresswoman for MN-05.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

With 91% reporting, Ilhan Omar has been declared the Democratic candidate for MN-05, leading her closest opponent, Margaret Anderson Kelliher, by a 48%-31% margin.

She will be the next Congresswoman for MN-05.

Hopefully she has such a horrible scandal that she's forced to drop out.

[Jeppe]

With 91% reporting, Ilhan Omar has been declared the Democratic candidate for MN-05, leading her closest opponent, Margaret Anderson Kelliher, by a 48%-31% margin.

She will be the next Congresswoman for MN-05.

Hopefully she has such a horrible scandal that she's forced to drop out.

You can't "drop out" in Minnesota. That's why nominating Ellison was an extra-big blunder today. A candidate basically has to die to be removed from the ballot.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

With 91% reporting, Ilhan Omar has been declared the Democratic candidate for MN-05, leading her closest opponent, Margaret Anderson Kelliher, by a 48%-31% margin.

She will be the next Congresswoman for MN-05.

Hopefully she has such a horrible scandal that she's forced to drop out.

You can't "drop out" in Minnesota. That's why nominating Ellison was an extra-big blunder today. A candidate basically has to die to be removed from the ballot.

Eh, you could have a scandal bad enough that she's forced to resign immediately or better yet, that the House Caucus refuses to seat her (which they should already be doing given that Omar is a fire-breathing anti-Semite).

[Jeppe]

With 91% reporting, Ilhan Omar has been declared the Democratic candidate for MN-05, leading her closest opponent, Margaret Anderson Kelliher, by a 48%-31% margin.

She will be the next Congresswoman for MN-05.

Hopefully she has such a horrible scandal that she's forced to drop out.

You can't "drop out" in Minnesota. That's why nominating Ellison was an extra-big blunder today. A candidate basically has to die to be removed from the ballot.

Eh, you could have a scandal bad enough that she's forced to resign immediately or better yet, that the House Caucus refuses to seat her (which they should already be doing given that Omar is a fire-breathing anti-Semite).

Eh, I feel like your hatred of her is a bit irrational. After all, she's only 1/435 of the chamber, and there are worse people than her in the House, like white supremacist Steve King.

[Yellowhammer]

2. You can shout as much as you want, but the cold, hard facts are that Israel is nothing like SA. There was an Arab Supreme Court Justice, the Arabic party is the third-biggest in the parliament, there's a Druze minister.

America is not racist because Clarence Thomas

America is, indeed, not an appartheid state. Is there racism in America? Sure. Is there racism in Israel? Sure. Do we have a lot of work to do to improve the situation of minorities in both? Of course. This doesn't make this old claim any less a lie, usually meant to delegitimize the Jewish State.

You sound so much like an ultra-nationalist right now. The UN found it was similar to an apartheid state, and thats the facts. Thats not opinion, thats fact.

The UN does not have the power to dictate what is true and what is not true. Just because it is the opinion of the UN does not mean it's a "fact."

[Zaybay]

2. You can shout as much as you want, but the cold, hard facts are that Israel is nothing like SA. There was an Arab Supreme Court Justice, the Arabic party is the third-biggest in the parliament, there's a Druze minister.

America is not racist because Clarence Thomas

America is, indeed, not an appartheid state. Is there racism in America? Sure. Is there racism in Israel? Sure. Do we have a lot of work to do to improve the situation of minorities in both? Of course. This doesn't make this old claim any less a lie, usually meant to delegitimize the Jewish State.

You sound so much like an ultra-nationalist right now. The UN found it was similar to an apartheid state, and thats the facts. Thats not opinion, thats fact.

The UN does not have the power to dictate what is true and what is not true. Just because it is the opinion of the UN does not mean it's a "fact."

The investigations from the UN found this, not the member states. So yes, it is facts.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

With 91% reporting, Ilhan Omar has been declared the Democratic candidate for MN-05, leading her closest opponent, Margaret Anderson Kelliher, by a 48%-31% margin.

She will be the next Congresswoman for MN-05.

Hopefully she has such a horrible scandal that she's forced to drop out.

You can't "drop out" in Minnesota. That's why nominating Ellison was an extra-big blunder today. A candidate basically has to die to be removed from the ballot.

Eh, you could have a scandal bad enough that she's forced to resign immediately or better yet, that the House Caucus refuses to seat her (which they should already be doing given that Omar is a fire-breathing anti-Semite).

Eh, I feel like your hatred of her is a bit irrational. After all, she's only 1/435 of the chamber, and there are worse people than her in the House, like white supremacist Steve King.

ITT: Goyim saying it is irrational for a Jew not to want a vicious anti-Semite in the House of Representatives.  

[Zaybay]

With 91% reporting, Ilhan Omar has been declared the Democratic candidate for MN-05, leading her closest opponent, Margaret Anderson Kelliher, by a 48%-31% margin.

She will be the next Congresswoman for MN-05.

Hopefully she has such a horrible scandal that she's forced to drop out.

You can't "drop out" in Minnesota. That's why nominating Ellison was an extra-big blunder today. A candidate basically has to die to be removed from the ballot.

Eh, you could have a scandal bad enough that she's forced to resign immediately or better yet, that the House Caucus refuses to seat her (which they should already be doing given that Omar is a fire-breathing anti-Semite).

Eh, I feel like your hatred of her is a bit irrational. After all, she's only 1/435 of the chamber, and there are worse people than her in the House, like white supremacist Steve King.

ITT: Goyim saying it is irrational for a Jew not to want a vicious anti-Semite in the House of Representatives. 

She had one tweet, give it a rest. Nothing else in her record shows this. Yes, the tweet was anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist, but thats all that is in her record.

It should also be noted that many major Jewish organizations and the entire DFL party has supported her, and I dont think they would for a vicious anti-Semite.

And, as Jeepe points out, she is 1 Rep out of 435, and there are many others who have records of racism and antisemitism