Is the American public turning on Israel?

[7,052,770]

The people that go all in on "it's all God's plan" are very weird (hence the "The right creepily loves it too much." comment I made).  I'm not going to defend all of their reasons for it, but obviously the right supports Israel more than the left in the US.  That's all I'm saying.

And I'm saying that no one who believes that Jews automatically go to Hell (the majority position on the American Right) actually supports Israel at all, regardless of whatever lip service they give to the idea.

Thus the Left supports Israel more by default.

[Person Man]

And I'm saying that no one who believes that Jews automatically go to Hell (the majority position on the American Right) actually supports Israel at all, regardless of whatever lip service they give to the idea.

So you have to be a religious universalist to claim to "support Israel" (?)

That's abolitionist to the point of absurdity.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

I am unsure to how many people are transitioning like this, but I will say that I shifted from being Very Pro-Israel in 2014 to being Very Anti-Israel in 2017.

[Landslide Lyndon]

You can support Israel while opposing Netanyahu and his disastrous, self-serving policies.
But I guess that notion requires too much thought for some people.

[7,052,770]

And I'm saying that no one who believes that Jews automatically go to Hell (the majority position on the American Right) actually supports Israel at all, regardless of whatever lip service they give to the idea.

So you have to be a religious universalist to claim to "support Israel" (?)

...

No?

You could theoretically believe whatever you want about Buddhists or whatever and still support Israel. You could also disbelieve in an afterlife entirely and support Israel legitimately.

But if you believe, as most Republicans do, that you are going to Heaven and Jews automatically go to Hell, you can't honestly claim to support Israel.

[7,052,770]

And I'm saying that no one who believes that Jews automatically go to Hell (the majority position on the American Right) actually supports Israel at all, regardless of whatever lip service they give to the idea.

So you have to be a religious universalist to claim to "support Israel" (?)

...

No?

You could theoretically believe whatever you want about Buddhists or whatever and still support Israel. You could also disbelieve in an afterlife entirely and support Israel legitimately.

But if you believe, as most Republicans do, that you are going to Heaven and Jews automatically go to Hell, you can't honestly claim to support Israel.

The connection between the two beliefs continues to elude me. There is also no indication that a majority of Republicans believes anything resembling "Jews automatically go to hell."

You aren't aware of the fundamental, bedrock belief of most Evangelical and some Mainline groups that belief in Jesus is the only way to be "saved" ?

[Person Man]

And I'm saying that no one who believes that Jews automatically go to Hell (the majority position on the American Right) actually supports Israel at all, regardless of whatever lip service they give to the idea.

So you have to be a religious universalist to claim to "support Israel" (?)

...

No?

You could theoretically believe whatever you want about Buddhists or whatever and still support Israel. You could also disbelieve in an afterlife entirely and support Israel legitimately.

But if you believe, as most Republicans do, that you are going to Heaven and Jews automatically go to Hell, you can't honestly claim to support Israel.

The connection between the two beliefs continues to elude me. There is also no indication that a majority of Republicans believes anything resembling "Jews automatically go to hell."

You aren't aware of the fundamental, bedrock belief of most Evangelical and some Mainline groups that belief in Jesus is the only way to be "saved" ?

I actually went to a large and established Evangelical megachurch once when I was in High School. The youth pastor told us about how the children of Abraham and Sarah were "blessed", that those who have faith that Jesus is God are also "blessed", and those that are both are "doubly blessed." He also alluded to the notion that Abraham and Hagar's children were "differently blessed".  I also remember things about a hell house, a gospel band called "Kamikaze", how (dating myself) they stopped the queers with the 2002 elections, and how STDs aren't just for sluts any more.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Muhpartheid

[KingSweden]

You can support Israel while opposing Netanyahu and his disastrous, self-serving policies.
But I guess that notion requires too much thought for some people.

This is my stance too.

[ProudModerate2]

You can support Israel while opposing Netanyahu and his disastrous, self-serving policies.
But I guess that notion requires too much thought for some people.

This is my stance too.

I can accept this.

[HillGoose]

I sure hope not.

[Person Man]

You can support Israel while opposing Netanyahu and his disastrous, self-serving policies.
But I guess that notion requires too much thought for some people.

This is my stance too.

[GMantis]

No, the left is. Obama took it from a fringe position to a mainstream one among that side. But it's still a dramatically minority position.

The fact that this absurd position is taken seriously is good evidence that the American public is nowhere near to turning on Israel.

If so, then Hamas has won. A terrorist organization has won. What's happening right now is a tactic of a terrorist organization- a smart tactic, exploiting the millions of starved masses that they've been doing nothing to feed (and rather spent all their money on weapons to kill Israeli innocents) to set them against a secure border, cause many of them today, and thus achieve their purpose of making Israel more hated.

While it's certainly true that the Hamas organized demonstrations were provocations, there was no obligation for Israel to respond in this manner.

[UncleSam]

I’m glad that supporting barbaric theocrats over the only remotely civilized country in that region of the country has become a mainstream position.

Otherwise how would we be able to be lectured about the struggle of moderate (TM) Muslims to only sometimes chop off heretics’ heads and throw gays off buildings?

Apologists for the barbarism of Islam disgust me. I appreciate that we can’t discriminate against individuals but the notion that the religion is beyond reproach or its’ supporters are somehow sacred when the Christian Right has become the only censorable and mockable group in society repulses me. Christians are deluded and have caused tons of damage themselves with their fantasy over the last two thousand years, but their threat in the modern day is negligible in comparison.

[Person Man]

I’m glad that supporting barbaric theocrats over the only remotely civilized country in that region of the country has become a mainstream position.

Otherwise how would we be able to be lectured about the struggle of moderate (TM) Muslims to only sometimes chop off heretics’ heads and throw gays off buildings?

Apologists for the barbarism of Islam disgust me. I appreciate that we can’t discriminate against individuals but the notion that the religion is beyond reproach or its’ supporters are somehow sacred when the Christian Right has become the only censorable and mockable group in society repulses me. Christians are deluded and have caused tons of damage themselves with their fantasy over the last two thousand years, but their threat in the modern day is negligible in comparison.

Enough with the white grievance politics. Sure, most Muslims in most predominately Muslim countries are disgusting but so are the attitudes of most Christians and people in general in Russia, for example. In western countries because of the rise of the Fundagelical Right, Muslims are no longer considered to be particularly reactionary.

[Theodore]

I sure hope not.

[Wisconsin SC Race 2019]

I’m glad that supporting barbaric theocrats over the only remotely civilized country in that region of the country has become a mainstream position.

Otherwise how would we be able to be lectured about the struggle of moderate (TM) Muslims to only sometimes chop off heretics’ heads and throw gays off buildings?

Apologists for the barbarism of Islam disgust me. I appreciate that we can’t discriminate against individuals but the notion that the religion is beyond reproach or its’ supporters are somehow sacred when the Christian Right has become the only censorable and mockable group in society repulses me. Christians are deluded and have caused tons of damage themselves with their fantasy over the last two thousand years, but their threat in the modern day is negligible in comparison.

Yep, liberals have thrown women, secularists, and gays under the bus for their new love affair for Islamists and no amount of atrocities committed by the Israelis can justify that.

[Person Man]

I’m glad that supporting barbaric theocrats over the only remotely civilized country in that region of the country has become a mainstream position.

Otherwise how would we be able to be lectured about the struggle of moderate (TM) Muslims to only sometimes chop off heretics’ heads and throw gays off buildings?

Apologists for the barbarism of Islam disgust me. I appreciate that we can’t discriminate against individuals but the notion that the religion is beyond reproach or its’ supporters are somehow sacred when the Christian Right has become the only censorable and mockable group in society repulses me. Christians are deluded and have caused tons of damage themselves with their fantasy over the last two thousand years, but their threat in the modern day is negligible in comparison.

Yep, liberals have thrown women, secularists, and gays under the bus for their new love affair for Islamists and no amount of atrocities committed by the Israelis can justify that.

You're darn tootin'!

[Reaganfan]

Liberals have, and it's very sad.

[Wisconsin SC Race 2019]

Liberals have, and it's very sad.

The fact that liberals have given up on the secular, Western ideals they once espoused in favour of the demands of Islam is one of the most tragic turns of events of the 21st Century.

[Person Man]

Liberals have, and it's very sad.

The fact that liberals have given up on the secular, Western ideals they once espoused in favour of the demands of Islam is one of the most tragic turns of events of the 21st Century.

And you're a Evangelical(or Conservative Catholic?), right? You should be overjoyed that now no major school of thought supports feminism, civil rights, or the First Amendment (or a secular Government of any kind!).

[Wisconsin SC Race 2019]

Liberals have, and it's very sad.

The fact that liberals have given up on the secular, Western ideals they once espoused in favour of the demands of Islam is one of the most tragic turns of events of the 21st Century.

And you're a Evangelical(or Conservative Catholic?), right? You should be overjoyed that now no major school of thought supports feminism, civil rights, or the First Amendment (or a secular Government of any kind!).

LMAO, I hate religion. Get with the program.

[Meclazine for Israel]

It's not "Is the American people..."

It's "Are the American people..."

The Islamic young male throwing rocks at Israel has never had many friends in the western media.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

I think the constant use of ad hominem attacks against BDS and its supporters by Israel supporters, namely accusations of antisemitism is damaging the perception of Israel in the view of many people.

When you start to heavily rely on ad hominem attacks instead of attempting to rationally refute the arguments the other side is putting forward, it makes it appear that you do not have the means to rationally refute the point being brought forward by the other side.

I used to be pro Israel. But part of what contributed towards me changing my view on the subject was in how the BDS debate played out.

The BDS movement would come out with actual points and arguments to back their view, while opponents would scream "antisemitism" every time, but never really seemed to attempt to produce rational counterpoints or arguments to back their view. Because of this, it appeared that the reason BDS opponents engaged in such ad hominem attacks was because the rational counterpoints or arguments one would expect them to produce did not actually exist.

Using ad hominem attacks does not earn you supporters from people who are unsure about the scope of the issue in debate, and in some cases, it can cost you supporters from people who start to doubt the integrity of your position.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

I’m glad that supporting barbaric theocrats over the only remotely civilized country in that region of the country has become a mainstream position.

Otherwise how would we be able to be lectured about the struggle of moderate (TM) Muslims to only sometimes chop off heretics’ heads and throw gays off buildings?

Apologists for the barbarism of Islam disgust me. I appreciate that we can’t discriminate against individuals but the notion that the religion is beyond reproach or its’ supporters are somehow sacred when the Christian Right has become the only censorable and mockable group in society repulses me. Christians are deluded and have caused tons of damage themselves with their fantasy over the last two thousand years, but their threat in the modern day is negligible in comparison.

Yep, liberals have thrown women, secularists, and gays under the bus for their new love affair for Islamists and no amount of atrocities committed by the Israelis can justify that.

You believe trans people don't have a right to exist, that the only issues that matter are cis white male issues, and that an entire religion is a bunch of subhuman savages. You throw everyone who isn't like you under the bus. You only care about bi people because you are one, and you only care about some women when you get to use them to bash marginalized minority groups (trans women (and you forget that other trans* people exist, because of course you do) and muslims).