Senate Legislation Introduction Thread
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 15, 2024, 06:04:00 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  Senate Legislation Introduction Thread
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 ... 23
Author Topic: Senate Legislation Introduction Thread  (Read 94939 times)
F. Joe Haydn
HenryWallaceVP
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,248


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #250 on: August 03, 2018, 01:11:28 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
F. Joe Haydn
HenryWallaceVP
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,248


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #251 on: August 04, 2018, 12:23:08 PM »
« Edited: August 07, 2018, 07:19:06 PM by HenryWallaceVP »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #252 on: August 04, 2018, 03:41:52 PM »


Section 2 has already been done.

Section 3 is probably unconstitutional on free speech grounds.
Logged
F. Joe Haydn
HenryWallaceVP
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,248


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #253 on: August 04, 2018, 09:20:07 PM »
« Edited: August 04, 2018, 09:34:50 PM by HenryWallaceVP »


Section 2 has already been done.

Section 3 is probably unconstitutional on free speech grounds.

I seem to remember automatic background checks being placed on TSDB suspects, but I don't recall anything about a ban on firearm purchases for suspects, which is what this bill establishes.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #254 on: August 04, 2018, 10:38:18 PM »


Section 2 has already been done.

Section 3 is probably unconstitutional on free speech grounds.

I seem to remember automatic background checks being placed on TSDB suspects, but I don't recall anything about a ban on firearm purchases for suspects, which is what this bill establishes.

[quote]
[quote]
LET'S TRY THIS ACT

SENATE BILL

To reduce gun violence
Be it enacted by the Congress of the Republic of Atlasia assembled

[quote]
SECTION 1: TITLE
1. This law shall be referred to as the Let's Try This Act.
SECTION II: NO FLY LIST REFORM
1. The government of Atlasia shall be required to have credible evidence to place suspects on the Terrorist Screening Database(TSDB).The evidence must be able to demonstrate that public safety would more likely than not be endangered should said suspect not be placed on the TSDB under the totality of the circumstances. Any decision to place a suspect on the TSDB is required to include any specific identifying characteristics if known.
2. The TSDB Review Panel is hereby created. This Panel shall consist of 7 active Atlasian judges, including 3 District Court Judges, 3 Appeal Court Judges, and 1 Supreme Court Justice. The judges for the panel shall be chosen randomly from the list of all active Judges, each year on January 1st. Any vacancy shall be filled for the remaining term through the same method within 30 days of the vacancy occurring.
3. Any person whose name is listed in the TSDB and who suffers injury as a result of this listing, shall be allowed to sue for equitable relief to require the TSDB to note the different identities, unless the party seeking that the petitioner be placed on the list shows by clear and convincing evidence that such placement is warranted because the petitioner poses a threat of committing an act of violent terrorism or piracy. Within 45 days of receiving a petition, the TSDB Review Panel shall convene and consider all evidence to determine if the petitioner is entitled to the relief demanded by. The TSDB Review Panel shall have the power to subpoena witnesses and examine evidence, including classified intelligence, in camera. If the TSDB Review Panel determines that there is clear and convincing evidence that petitioner should have been placed on the TSDB, then the petitioner may not challenge his or her placement on the TSDB for 1 year.
4. All persons listed in the TSDB, including as many specific identifying characteristics as are known, shall be reported to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)database.
Logged
F. Joe Haydn
HenryWallaceVP
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,248


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #255 on: August 05, 2018, 10:48:50 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

SENATE BILL[/b]

To implement common sense gun control in Atlasia

Be it enacted by the Congress of the Republic of Atlasia assembled


SECTION 1: TITLE
1. This law shall be referred to as the Common Sense Gun Control Act.

SECTION II: BAN ON NO FLY LIST GUN PURCHASES
1. Suspects on the Terrorist Screening Database (TSDB) shall be prohibited from purchasing firearms.

SECTION III: BAN ON 3D-PRINTED FIREARMS
1. Publishing an online digital file which programs a 3D-printer to automatically print a firearm shall be prohibited.
2. The publication of blueprints for 3D-printed firearms shall be prohibited.

Section 2 has already been done.

Section 3 is probably unconstitutional on free speech grounds.

I seem to remember automatic background checks being placed on TSDB suspects, but I don't recall anything about a ban on firearm purchases for suspects, which is what this bill establishes.


SENATE BILL[/b][/center]

To reduce gun violence
Be it enacted by the Congress of the Republic of Atlasia assembled

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
[/quote]

Well in that case, I guess the bill will just have to be amended to remove Section 2 and replace it with something else, possibly an assault weapons ban. Also, it seems like a stretch to call Section 3 unconstitutional, as those very same measures are being discussed in the US government right now by politicians such as Senator Bill Nelson. Also, something evidently got messed up in the quote formatting with this post.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #256 on: August 05, 2018, 12:08:50 PM »

Also, it seems like a stretch to call Section 3 unconstitutional, as those very same measures are being discussed in the US government right now by politicians such as Senator Bill Nelson.

You've never known Republicans to push blatantly unconstitutional laws? In the past 20 yrs weve seen a great change in how broadly we understand freedom of sppech. Congress does not have the power to ban speech unless the speech is part of a historical exclusion. If the ban discriminates on content (like the above proposal) it is of especially dubious constitutionality. If the ban acts as a prior restraint on speech it is even more likely to be struck down. And if the ban doesnt provide for alternative channels of speech that is also unconstitutional.

Recently the Supreme Court has had to strike down unconstitutional laws banning lying about winning military awards, videos of women in high heels crushing animals, violent video games sold to minors, for sale signs, phone sex hotlines, T Shirts, violent rap lyrics on facebook about your ex, and a host of other unpopular speech.

It goes further. Lower federal courts have recently held nonconsensual upskirt photography, tattoo parlors, panhandling, drive in movie theaters viewable from the road, anonymous notes left on cars, social media profiles, and a lot of other things that arent vocally spoken as protected speech.

This proposal purports to just straight up ban the communicative publishing of truthful information based on the content of the speech, even though said content is not one of the narrow few historical exclusions. This acts like a prior restraint which is even more suspect that if this was JUST content discrimination AND a non-allowable, non-historical exclusion. There are no adequate alternative channel provided for firearm blueprints as required by the Ladue case.

Like I get that you might want to do something on a topical issue, but as written I believe this violates free speech for 4 separate reasons, any one of which is constitutionally fatal.
Logged
F. Joe Haydn
HenryWallaceVP
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,248


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #257 on: August 05, 2018, 01:23:13 PM »

Also, it seems like a stretch to call Section 3 unconstitutional, as those very same measures are being discussed in the US government right now by politicians such as Senator Bill Nelson.

You've never known Republicans to push blatantly unconstitutional laws? In the past 20 yrs weve seen a great change in how broadly we understand freedom of sppech. Congress does not have the power to ban speech unless the speech is part of a historical exclusion. If the ban discriminates on content (like the above proposal) it is of especially dubious constitutionality. If the ban acts as a prior restraint on speech it is even more likely to be struck down. And if the ban doesnt provide for alternative channels of speech that is also unconstitutional.

Recently the Supreme Court has had to strike down unconstitutional laws banning lying about winning military awards, videos of women in high heels crushing animals, violent video games sold to minors, for sale signs, phone sex hotlines, T Shirts, violent rap lyrics on facebook about your ex, and a host of other unpopular speech.

It goes further. Lower federal courts have recently held nonconsensual upskirt photography, tattoo parlors, panhandling, drive in movie theaters viewable from the road, anonymous notes left on cars, social media profiles, and a lot of other things that arent vocally spoken as protected speech.

This proposal purports to just straight up ban the communicative publishing of truthful information based on the content of the speech, even though said content is not one of the narrow few historical exclusions. This acts like a prior restraint which is even more suspect that if this was JUST content discrimination AND a non-allowable, non-historical exclusion. There are no adequate alternative channel provided for firearm blueprints as required by the Ladue case.

Like I get that you might want to do something on a topical issue, but as written I believe this violates free speech for 4 separate reasons, any one of which is constitutionally fatal.

Well, I suppose then that the bill could be amended into something similar to the Undetectable Firearms Act. This would fix the main problem with 3D printed firearms, that many of them are untraceable and undetectable by metal detectors. The software, if considered speech protected by the 1st Amendment, would still be available, but the guns themselves would be required to contain a certain amount of metal.

But the problem of the guns being able to be printed by anyone would still exist, and I don't see how the government could place background checks on them. By dangerously skirting gun control laws and regulations, these firearms could conceivably end up in the hands of anyone. Perhaps some ideas for how to regulate these guns could be brought up in debate once this bill reaches the Senate floor.

Maybe the software blueprint instructions could be available to anyone, but you would have to have a permit/license requiring background checks, either one already in existence for other firearms or a new one specific to just 3D guns, from the government to actually use the software to print a gun. Carrying a gun, 3D printed or not, without a permit would be a crime.

Or perhaps after printing a gun, the gun would be required to be registered with the government, assuming that a national gun registry exists in Atlasia. Or if one doesn't exist, perhaps this bill could mandate the creation of one. Carrying an unlicensed gun, whether 3D printed or not, would be a crime.

Anyway, any more discussion about this should probably be saved for the Senate floor when the bill actually gets introduced.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #258 on: August 05, 2018, 03:08:22 PM »

Anyway, any more discussion about this should probably be saved for the Senate floor when the bill actually gets introduced.

It needs to be constitutional first so it can go to the floor.

 You might could amend it here to mandate serial numbers on them once printed if they get the code over the internet since thats interstate. The other thing is, 3D printed "guns" still require a metal firing pin to work, which means they satisfy the current requirements under the undetectable firearms act.
Logged
F. Joe Haydn
HenryWallaceVP
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,248


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #259 on: August 07, 2018, 07:19:27 PM »

Anyway, any more discussion about this should probably be saved for the Senate floor when the bill actually gets introduced.

It needs to be constitutional first so it can go to the floor.

 You might could amend it here to mandate serial numbers on them once printed if they get the code over the internet since thats interstate. The other thing is, 3D printed "guns" still require a metal firing pin to work, which means they satisfy the current requirements under the undetectable firearms act.

The bill has been modified.
Logged
Sirius_
Ninja0428
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,121
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.00, S: -7.91


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #260 on: August 08, 2018, 11:59:36 PM »

Anyway, any more discussion about this should probably be saved for the Senate floor when the bill actually gets introduced.

It needs to be constitutional first so it can go to the floor.

 You might could amend it here to mandate serial numbers on them once printed if they get the code over the internet since thats interstate. The other thing is, 3D printed "guns" still require a metal firing pin to work, which means they satisfy the current requirements under the undetectable firearms act.

The bill has been modified.
Just to clarify, is this modified version in the thread? I don't want to put the wrong version on the floor.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #261 on: August 09, 2018, 06:10:35 AM »

Anyway, any more discussion about this should probably be saved for the Senate floor when the bill actually gets introduced.

It needs to be constitutional first so it can go to the floor.

 You might could amend it here to mandate serial numbers on them once printed if they get the code over the internet since thats interstate. The other thing is, 3D printed "guns" still require a metal firing pin to work, which means they satisfy the current requirements under the undetectable firearms act.

The bill has been modified.
Just to clarify, is this modified version in the thread? I don't want to put the wrong version on the floor.

Its already on the floor
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #262 on: August 10, 2018, 05:51:35 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #263 on: August 11, 2018, 10:45:09 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
[/quote]
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #264 on: August 11, 2018, 11:51:59 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
[/quote]
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #265 on: August 11, 2018, 12:02:23 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
[/quote]
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #266 on: August 16, 2018, 08:11:44 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
[/quote]
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #267 on: August 27, 2018, 06:40:58 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
[/quote]
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #268 on: August 30, 2018, 10:55:20 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
[/quote]
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #269 on: September 02, 2018, 11:40:22 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #270 on: September 02, 2018, 11:44:04 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
F. Joe Haydn
HenryWallaceVP
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,248


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #271 on: September 04, 2018, 02:44:20 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,873
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #272 on: September 04, 2018, 05:11:06 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
[/quote]
Logged
Sestak
jk2020
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,296
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #273 on: September 07, 2018, 12:01:17 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
[/quote]
Logged
Sestak
jk2020
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,296
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #274 on: September 07, 2018, 12:03:39 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
[/quote]
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 ... 23  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.055 seconds with 12 queries.