Politics and Elections in the Netherlands: coalition agreement presented

[DavidB.]

In response to Klartext and Kataak I'd say that nobody votes for the PVV in order to live in a "Christian nation" (most PVV voters are either non-religious or cultural Catholics), though many do vote PVV because they think the Netherlands may become a Muslim country otherwise. However, it is also not true that the PVV "is nothing close to Christianity" since the PVV support policies that further Judeo-Christian values both in this country and in international politics, which would arguably be better for Christians than, for instance, the consequences of the CDA's views.

[Klartext89]

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What


PVV is nothing close to Christianity, if they want to have future "in Christian nation" they should vote SGP not some sh**tty populists. And I am not even going to comment that Islamic Nation part.

What says everything about you and your knowledge in the topic. I'm glad Polish people (and government) are way different from you.

But I can't understand why: The problems with Muslim Iimigration and their Population growth aren't anything new, it's not hard to understand that more and more % of Muslim population leads to an Islamic state. That's what history teaches us. Turkey was a Christian country once.

The problems and discussions aren't over or finished when you call the other person bad names. You only show that you don't have the arguments on your side.

[Klartext89]

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What


PVV is nothing close to Christianity, if they want to have future "in Christian nation" they should vote SGP not some sh**tty populists. And I am not even going to comment that Islamic Nation part.

Don't try to argue with fascists. You'll find them deaf to anything rational, and eventually you'll find out they actually enjoy the argument when you're boiling.

Stop trolling.

You are the fascists, you are the ones having problems with different opinions, you are the ones committing violence against others.

There's no rationality in left "thinking", it's only hypocrisy and total nonsense like telling you are against Anti-Semitism or pro gay but celebrating the takeover of Islam. If it wasn't that sad, I could laugh.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

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What


PVV is nothing close to Christianity, if they want to have future "in Christian nation" they should vote SGP not some sh**tty populists. And I am not even going to comment that Islamic Nation part.

What says everything about you and your knowledge in the topic. I'm glad Polish people (and government) are way different from you.

But I can't understand why: The problems with Muslim Iimigration and their Population growth aren't anything new, it's not hard to understand that more and more % of Muslim population leads to an Islamic state. That's what history teaches us. Turkey was a Christian country once.

The problems and discussions aren't over or finished when you call the other person bad names. You only show that you don't have the arguments on your side.

First of all I don't even understand how you got the feeling that I am somehow different compared to other Polish people (if we consider that nations can be summed up as bundle of characteristics) while I prefer SGP than PVV.

Turkey never was Christian country, it exists since 1920's as a republic. And what history teach us that mistreatment of religious minorities lead to pogroms, tensions and in the best cases to mild alienation like Jews or Armenians in Eastern Europe. And Ottoman Empire did the same. If one ethnic group create paralel society to majority population society it never ends ups well. If there is problem with Muslim immigrants is that Western countries failed to create them good conditions to live and raise their children. Ghettoisation, radicalization are serious social problems and its not enough just to shout that "oh Muslims out". It take some time for immigrants to accommodate to local conditions , rules and institutions but this is possible. And this is role of host state to work in such way to fight with all social problems, but with reason. Polarization of society never works well, and this is what parties like PVV are willingly or unwillingly are doing. 

If you brought here case of Poland this country is good example of Muslim minority living well with majority, they are not big but there was period in history when there were more of them (population in Poland is small but there are also Lipka Tatars in Lithuania and Belarus). Some of them were involved in independence movement in XIX century, they were fighting with Germans in 1939, they contributed a lot giving a lot of social activists, military officers, clerks, doctors etc. But earlier Tatars migrating to Poland-Lithuania were given noble rights equal to what Poles, Ruthenians or Lithuanians had. That made them possible to coexist with other religious groups.

If some nation have problem with migrants so probably that is that nation fault, not the migrants. And if you fear that your country will no longer be Christian I have bad news for you - it is not caused by Muslims, it is caused by you all and fact that Western nations are no longer Christian. And this is funny that especially young people votes on parties like PVV or Front National. The same young people who use drugs, do not attend to Mass and do not pray. Terrains where AfD in Germany is the strongest, so post-DDR lands are predominantly atheist so if you are afraid of other religions better try to follow your one.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Just remembered that I made this last time round!

[icc]

Hi, just wondering if anyone has a link to box results from the 2012 election?

Thanks!

[Classic Conservative]

David, have you decided what party you are going to cast your ballot for?

[DavidB.]

Great maps, Al!

David, have you decided what party you are going to cast your ballot for?

Yes, for the PVV. I want mass immigration and EU integration to end. I have my disagreements with them and am pessimistic about the party's chances to achieve anything, but it's not as if there's a better option or one that would achieve more.

Hi, just wondering if anyone has a link to box results from the 2012 election?

What do you mean by "box results"?

[icc]

Great maps, Al!

David, have you decided what party you are going to cast your ballot for?

Yes, for the PVV. I want mass immigration and EU integration to end. I have my disagreements with them and am pessimistic about the party's chances to achieve anything, but it's not as if there's a better option or one that would achieve more.

Hi, just wondering if anyone has a link to box results from the 2012 election?

What do you mean by "box results"?

Results for each ballot box (or at least areas smaller than muncipalities)

[Zinneke]

Great maps, Al!

David, have you decided what party you are going to cast your ballot for?

Yes, for the PVV. I want mass immigration and EU integration to end. I have my disagreements with them and am pessimistic about the party's chances to achieve anything, but it's not as if there's a better option or one that would achieve more.

Hi, just wondering if anyone has a link to box results from the 2012 election?

What do you mean by "box results"?

Results for each ballot box (or at least areas smaller than muncipalities)

If you go on the municipal websites they somwtimes have an archive of all the election per ballot box

If you are non dutch, Google "gemeente <city name>" and look for verkiezingen (usually under something like "bestuur"). When I have the time I could post the data here but its a nightmare trying to sum all the ballot boxes into one district so its of little value to non-residents anyway.

[DavidB.]

Results for each ballot box (or at least areas smaller than muncipalities)

As far as I know they're all offline (probably takes up a lot of space) except for the NRC's 2015 Provincial Elections map by polling station: http://maps.nrc.nl/ps2015/ps2015sb-100pct.php.

Of course you can look them up for other elections on municipalities' websites, as Rogier said, but this takes so many work and gives me so little satisfaction (you have to look up the location of each polling station yourself and the results are often presented in the least "easy" way possible) that I myself only do it for municipalities I'm very well acquainted with, and only if necessary.

[SunSt0rm]

The draw for the NOS debate the evening before the election has taken place. Based on the Peilingwijzer and the current parliamentary composition, the main debate will have representatives of VVD, PvdA, PVV, CDA, D66, SP and CU. The one-on-one debates that will take place are as follows:

Klaver (GL) vs. Buma (CDA)
Pechtold (D66) vs. Roemer (SP)
Segers (CU) vs. Rutte (VVD)
Asscher (PvdA) vs. Wilders (PVV)

This seems good for Asscher, Wilders, Roemer and possibly Pechtold and bad for Rutte, who won't get the one-on-one debate with Wilders he wanted. Klaver will also not really get the chance to shine against moderate hero Buma.

The kiddie table debate that will take place before the main debate includes representatives of all small parties currently represented in parliament: SGP, 50Plus and PvdD (who obtained their seats in the election) and VNL, DENK and Nieuwe Wegen (who obtained their seats as splitoffs). Round one will have Van der Staaij (SGP), Krol (50Plus) and Oosenbrug (Nieuwe Wegen); round two will be somewhat more spectacular with Thieme (PvdD), Roos (VNL) and Kuzu (DENK). Roos already came up with the remark that this debate is VNL "Voor Nederland" versus DENK "Voor Turkije".

FVD were upset that they aren't included at the kiddie table debate, arguing that VNL aren't any more legitimately elected than FVD. This may obviously be true, but there will be 30 parties participating in the election, more than in any election since the early 1970s. No one wants to have all these parties participate in the kiddie table debate, and opening the door to FVD means opening the door to any crazy party. You have to make some selection.

They will be two rounds of debates at the NOS. The second round is:

Buma vs Pechtold
Roemer vs Asscher
Rutte vs Klaver
Wilders vs Segers

I think Klaver is happy to debate one on one with Rutte

[DavidB.]

Oh, you're right, had missed that. Roemer vs. Asscher and Rutte vs. Klaver will surely be spectacular. Pretty funny that Asscher declined to engage in a debate with Roemer and Klaver and he's now going to debate Roemer anyway. Wilders vs. Segers may benefit Wilders if Segers starts talking about immigration, but could also be risky. Buma and Pechtold can't be too happy about their draws.

I'm still baffled Asscher's ego was big enough to try and become leader at this point. There's just no way this will end well for him, and everybody knew this. Not good for the PvdA either.

[Zinneke]

How did CU get in the adult debate but SGP and PvdD did not?

[DavidB.]

How did CU get in the adult debate but SGP and PvdD did not?

More seats in parliament, more seats in the polls. I also think 50Plus would get into the adult debate before either of SGP and PvdD because of the polls. Thank G-d that didn't happen.

[jeron]

How did CU get in the adult debate but SGP and PvdD did not?

More seats in parliament, more seats in the polls. I also think 50Plus would get into the adult debate before either of SGP and PvdD because of the polls. Thank G-d that didn't happen.

I am no fan of 50plus either but for the last couple of months 50plus has been consistently higher in the polls than CU. so, according to the polls 50plus should have been in the adult debate.

[Zinneke]

How did CU get in the adult debate but SGP and PvdD did not?

More seats in parliament, more seats in the polls. I also think 50Plus would get into the adult debate before either of SGP and PvdD because of the polls. Thank G-d that didn't happen.

I am no fan of 50plus either but for the last couple of months 50plus has been consistently higher in the polls than CU. so, according to the polls 50plus should have been in the adult debate.

I imagine the main difference is that CU do not campaign on single issues, unlike 50+.

If the format is like the provincials then the attacking party who is selected first get to choose which issue is discussed in the debate vs the "defending" party. Then the second rounds allow the ones who defended to pick their issue.

With 50+, PvdD and even to an extent the SGP and Denk, this format doesn't work.

[SunSt0rm]

How did CU get in the adult debate but SGP and PvdD did not?

More seats in parliament, more seats in the polls. I also think 50Plus would get into the adult debate before either of SGP and PvdD because of the polls. Thank G-d that didn't happen.

I am no fan of 50plus either but for the last couple of months 50plus has been consistently higher in the polls than CU. so, according to the polls 50plus should have been in the adult debate.

The criteria are current seats + average seats in the polls. 50+ only has 1 seat not and is currently polling about 9 seats making 10 seats, while CU has 5 seats and in the polls it will have 6 seats so they will have 11 seats, more than 50+

[DC Al Fine]

When I go onto the English wiki for Dutch opinion polls, each poll has 1-4 seats going to "Other". When I go on the Dutch version, it has DENK, Pirates and what appears to be two PPV-alternative parties winning between 0-2 seats each dependingo on the poll. What are these parties' chances of getting into parliament?

[mvd10]

When I go onto the English wiki for Dutch opinion polls, each poll has 1-4 seats going to "Other". When I go on the Dutch version, it has DENK, Pirates and what appears to be two PPV-alternative parties winning between 0-2 seats each dependingo on the poll. What are these parties' chances of getting into parliament?

DENK probably has the best chance. But pretty much all of their voters are muslims (especially muslims with a Turkish background) and they are very hard to poll. I don't think VNL and FvD are going to make it. In the past there have been similar small right-wing parties and they never made it into parliament, so it's probably not going to happen, especially now the right-wing vote will be split between FvD and VNL. And I don't think there is much space for more right-wing parties. Leaving the EU will probably scare away VVD voters while their libertarian economic platform (flat taxes and stuff like that) will scare away PVV voters. I don't know anything about the pirate party tbh.

[SunSt0rm]

When I go onto the English wiki for Dutch opinion polls, each poll has 1-4 seats going to "Other". When I go on the Dutch version, it has DENK, Pirates and what appears to be two PPV-alternative parties winning between 0-2 seats each dependingo on the poll. What are these parties' chances of getting into parliament?

Denk has a decent chanchee getting at least one seat. Pirate not. VNL and FvD probably small to get in, if they would have merged, maybe they would have a chance

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Here's a thought: would PVV be doing better or worse if it had the same issues etc but was led by a more bland-Hofer like individual than the divisive Wilders? (Ignoring of course that a PVV without Wilders wouldn't actually be the PVV)

[Angel of Death]

Here's a thought: would PVV be doing better or worse if it had the same issues etc but was led by a more bland-Hofer like individual than the divisive Wilders? (Ignoring of course that a PVV without Wilders wouldn't actually be the PVV)

No, because the party would look too similar to the VVD then.

[mvd10]

I agree with others here that DENK are probably getting in; VNL and FVD are the only other ones who have a remotely realistic shot of getting in, but that's probably not happening anyway.

I wrote this for another, slightly less serious website on the parties that are on the ballot yet weren't elected in 2012. Don't shoot.

12. Ondernemerspartij: if you're not yet sick and tired of former PVV MP and known alcoholic troublemaker Hero Brinkman ("Drinkman"), who now pretends to stand up for small businesses' interests. Electoral potential: 0
13. VNL: if you agree with Wilders but don't think he has the best words -- a drunk like Jan Roos is obviously more sensitive -- and also want tax cuts. Electoral potential: 35% chance they get in.
14. DENK: if you think Erdogan is actually p cool. Electoral potential: 90% chance they get in.
15. NIEUWE WEGEN: if you're a social democrat fed up with the PvdA who wants less EU and, as opposed to the SP, less immigration, but you don't like Wilders for some reason. Electoral potential: <5% they get in.
16. Forum voor Democratie: if you're highly educated and like your party leader to lie on a piano and pretend his party is the new D66 while it's really a cheap copy of the PVV (but pro-Putin and pro-MRA). Electoral potential: 25% chance they get in.
17. De Burger Beweging: if you don't like the financial system but you also can't write proper Dutch. Electoral potential: 0
18. Vrijzinnige Partij: if you want a universal basic income and you think someone who split off from 50Plus is the man. Electoral potential: 0.
19. GeenPeil: if you think it's a good idea if MPs just vote on the basis of random open internet polls -- what could possibly go wrong? Electoral potential: <5% they get in.
20. Piratenpartij: if you think privacy is cool, or if you just think parliament would look better with a fetish model in it. Electoral potential: <5%.
21. Artikel1: if intersectional feminism is really your thing. Electoral potential: <5%.
22. Niet Stemmers: if you're a non-voter but you're voting anyway? Electoral potential: 0 (come on, their voters aren't voting...).
23: Libertarische Partij: if you think this country should become much more FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE BUT SOCIALLY LIBERAL. Also my first electoral love; 2012 parliamentary election, never forget Electoral potential: 0 (they even lost me lmao)
24: Lokaal in de Kamer: if you're a local, probably corrupt politician and you figure national politicians are spectacularly unpopular so why not try? Electoral potential: 0.
25. JEZUS LEEFT: if you think Jesus is alive? Electoral potential: 0.
26. StemNL: if you want to vote on issues instead of for parties and candidates. Electoral potential: 0.
27. MenS and Spirit/Basisinkomen/Blah blah blah: if you think homeopathy works, we should work on our chakras more, vaccines may not work, etc. Electoral potential: 0.
28. VDP: if you're a Turk, hate Jews and gays, and think DENK are cucks for even pretending to be inclusive. Electoral potential: 0 (thank f**k)

Not on the ballot this time and sorely missed are SOPN (anti-chemtrail party; still got more votes than the LP in 2012...), IQ Partij (openly racist party by a guy with an insane German accent who thinks Ashkenazi Jews are dangerous) and the LibDems (someone who has too much money but is antisemitic too).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX5kJdwZ164

I'll never forget this.

[DavidB.]

Haha, yeah, die witte menschen en die broine menschen Still pretty bizarre this video was broadcasted on tv, but I guess it's the price we pay for being an inclusive democracy. We won't get anything like that from the VDP, because I think you need to be on the ballot in all electoral districts to be allotted airtime on tv; list 17 and onward are not.

On another note, pretty embarrassing GeenPeil managed to get over 450,000 signatures for their referendum but didn't manage to get on the ballot everywhere (though I think they only missed out on the 10 signatures from Bonaire).