Israel-Gaza war

[It’s so Joever]

Gaza has sealed her fate. It was already likely to be done for long term but this is the nail in the coffin.

[It’s so Joever]

Let’s be clear here by the way, Hamas is an insidious terrorist organization that seeks the removal of the Israeli people from their homeland.

Now let’s be just as clear, a large chunk of the Israeli Knesset  is a terrorist organization which seeks the removal of the Palestinian people.

There was once a point when Israel was the obvious “good guy” and for a while at the very least they were the “lesser of two evils”
However with this recent government and the rapid expansionism of settlers/evictions of Palestinians, it’s clear that the dynamic has changed.

American foreign policy should be calculated and based on who we benefit most from, and that would be Israel. If this were an Iran Israeli proxy conflict, that may be different, but Palestine has dwindling allies anyways and we may as well throw our support behind the likely winner. Unfortunately that winner also happens to be undergoing a demographic time bomb with radical extremists having the highest birth rates. We must be careful about how we deal with this future state as well, but that is a problem for tomorrow.

[It’s so Joever]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

Israeli support for Ukraine has been very tepid. Weren't they at one point floated as a neutral location for peace talks?

Israel has been downright traitorous regarding Ukraine, but this should not be shocking, the Netanyahu government supports illegal invasions.

[It’s so Joever]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

Israeli support for Ukraine has been very tepid. Weren't they at one point floated as a neutral location for peace talks?

Israel has been downright traitorous regarding Ukraine, but this should not be shocking, the Netanyahu government supports illegal invasions.

Traitorous against who, themselves?

Against us, the reason they exist. I am glad Israel exists, but they owe us.

[It’s so Joever]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

India sides with Israel here. So there goes your bs global south alliance

Lmao it’s so funny how you dense you people are about geopolitics. Are you even aware of India-Pakistan tensions?

You keep having this automatic alignment “side” mentality inherited from Cold War without not even grasping the concept of current multilateralism.

You are the one who talks about the global north vs south like it is some second cold war, OSR may have the geopolitical understanding of a toddler but you are throwing crayons from your own crib.

[It’s so Joever]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

India sides with Israel here. So there goes your bs global south alliance

Lmao it’s so funny how you dense you people are about geopolitics. Are you even aware of India-Pakistan tensions?

You keep having this automatic alignment “side” mentality inherited from Cold War without not even grasping the concept of current multilateralism.

You are the one who talks about the global north vs south like it is some second cold war, OSR may have the geopolitical understanding of a toddler but you are throwing crayons from your own crib.

On economic interests, we definitely have very direct opposing interests between the countries that want to emerge and the ones that want to protect their standing.

Doesn’t mean interests cannot align on multiple other matters, including well, Culture and Religion. Economic independence is one major thing but there are tons of others.

This…actually is fair. Don’t get me wrong, I still hold the same outright despise about of you and everything you stand for, but forgive me I misunderstood your geopolitical awareness.

[It’s so Joever]

Civilians do not deserve to be killed because of their political beliefs, no matter how repugnant they are. Not a hard concept. I have not minced words when it comes to people who support Russia, or those who sit on the sidelines, they don’t deserve to be killed.

The drunk guy who picks up a rattlesnake doesn't deserve to die either.

You made it pretty clear you thought they did deserve it.

Actions having consequences is a description, not a prescription.

Enough with this, you would act similarly if you were in their position. Their positions may be problematic but at least try to have some empathy. Not sympathy, I feel little sympathy for Israel right now, but at least understand where they are coming from for your own comprehension.

[It’s so Joever]

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1710730202353934338?s=20

A true class act and this changes my opinion of her immensely. Even after being labeled anti semitic by everyone and now having nothing to lose supporting Hamas tbh, she still stands with the civilians who are caught in the middle of this regardless of nationality. A lot of people owe an apology, I know I do.

[It’s so Joever]

This thread just proves how there are no good sides in this conflict.

[It’s so Joever]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

Hell no, if Iran declares war on Israel then we should provide Israel with air support. Let's see how Iran would like to deal with the greatest military superpower the world has ever seen and especially the greatest air power the world has ever seen.

We must not let Israel fall under any circumstance. The history over the past many centuries show that when there is no Jewish country existing , it leads to horrible oppression and we cannot stand by and let that ever happen again. The fact is Jews need a refuge from potential oppression and that is why a Jewish nation must exist

We should provide as much help to Israel as they were willing to give to Ukraine.

[It’s so Joever]

Also funny how the whole sovereign state thing applies to Jews but not Sikhs in OSRville.

[It’s so Joever]

https://thehill.com/policy/international/4243414-medvedev-says-hamas-attacks-expected-development/

Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Hamas’ widespread attacks on Israel Saturday “come as an expected development,” using the opportunity to denounce U.S. influence in the Middle East and in Ukraine.

The Palestinian militant group launched the largest attack on Israel in decades early Saturday, invading multiple Israeli towns and launching missiles into the country.

The Palestinian government claimed that about 200 people have died, while the Israeli government said there have been about 40 deaths.

I hope Netanyahu sees this and realizes what a stupid idea it is to ever trut anyone within fifteen feet of the Kremlin today.

[It’s so Joever]

Great job on the thread everyone! Congratulations due all around.

I can confidently say that after keeping up with this all day, that I hardly know more from this thread than I did at 10:00am. On the plus side I now know what an East German apartment looked like.

As predicted, we reach page 25 on same day.
I've never seen a thread in IGD move this quickly.

Russia Ukraine?

[It’s so Joever]

Israel is specifically telling people where to go to avoid bombings.

Citation needed, because I only see calls to leave one's building or Gaza entirely (from Netanyahu).

False. There are maps asking the residents of perimeter neighbourhoods to move to the inner city. Hopefully in due time we’ll reach the inner city and then they’ll be directed to Sinai

So you do want to expel all Palestinians, good to know.

[It’s so Joever]

The “solution” is to try and play this to make Israel remember they need us. I also would not at all be opposed to sabotaging the Israeli peace talks with their Arab neighbors for this reason (Trump should never have pushed for this) and do hope this episode does cause those agreements to fall apart as unrealistic as it is.

If you mean the moral solution, that ship sailed a long time ago. The least terrible action at this point would be supporting Israel only to make sure we have a voice at the table to prevent the worst of the excesses which may come.

[It’s so Joever]

The Gaza Strip has no future as a political entity.

Its people, regrettably, will need to be evacuated to Egypt and the city of Gaza likely destroyed. If not, the scenes unfolded over the past week will continue for another thousand years.

Israel is not absent of blame of course, indeed they deserve a lot of it, but what has transpired since the partition cannot be changed. We can only look ahead now.

This is genocidal rhetoric. I understand that tempers are running high now, and I truly do understand why, but can we please draw a line somewhere? The median age in Gaza is 18. If you endorse this you are endorsing the forcible expulsion or more likely death of mostly children.

I don’t think he wants this, but as we have directly seen from a poster in this thread (not saying names but y’all know) this is what Israel increasingly wants each year and is the likeliest thing to happen. With not an ally in the world, there is nothing Palestine can do. At this point there isn’t much left to do other than self exile or be genocided by force, and I don’t blame the Palestinian people for whichever of the two awful options they chose.

[It’s so Joever]

Still waiting for literally any hint of a workable solution to stop the killings from the people self-righteously insisting to me that I'm advocating for mass murder for wanting people to move a few hours west.  Since apparently it's obvious that this would result in hundreds of thousands of deaths.

You guys are ok with the status quo, where the terrorist group that runs Gaza gets to massacre tons of Jews and Israel isn't allowed to go anything about it.  How dare you accuse me of being the inhumane one.  Your unwillingness to consider any alternative to the status quo just indicates that you're OK with it.

Not Me, Us already gave you one, go check it out instead of b**ching about how he “misrepresented” you.

[It’s so Joever]

Hamas have just released a statement: they will execute the hostages (on video) if the unannounced (i.e. no roof knocking) airstrikes continue.

Are they actually stupid?

[It’s so Joever]

Hamas have just released a statement: they will execute the hostages (on video) if the unannounced (i.e. no roof knocking) airstrikes continue.

Are they actually stupid?

What should they do according to you?

As of now? Surrender completely and call upon both the Palestininian and Israeli people to work towards a deal in which 1967 border are completly respected. Of course it likely wouldn’t work but it’s better than further provoking their much stronger neighbor into committing a genocide against their own people.
Escalation on both sides for decades brought us here, the solution is not the same thing that has caused so much pain in the first place.

[It’s so Joever]

Hamas have just released a statement: they will execute the hostages (on video) if the unannounced (i.e. no roof knocking) airstrikes continue.

Are they actually stupid?

What should they do according to you?

As of now? Surrender completely and call upon both the Palestininian and Israeli people to work towards a deal in which 1967 border are completly respected. Of course it likely wouldn’t work but it’s better than further provoking their much stronger neighbor into committing a genocide against their own people.
Escalation on both sides for decades brought us here, the solution is not the same thing that has caused so much pain in the first place.

That will only happen once hell freezes over. Hamas is a terrorist organization.

I am well aware.

[It’s so Joever]

I'll join the fun.

I like Netanyahu/Israel and Biden's response so far. A few more days of continuous bombing in Gaza and targeted killings of Hamas fighters should lead to an end of the conflict within the next few weeks; but part of me does have a feeling that some other Islamic country will try to involve themselves deeper in this - leading to worsened escalation. Let's hope not, but we'll see.

“Islamic Country”?
The only countries which have even a remote possibility of getting involved on behalf of Hamas are Iran and Syria, and neither of those are likely. Unless you think Bosnia and Bangladesh are gonna start funneling money to bus bombs just because they read the same book…

Nobody else in the Arab World wants to touch this lmao. Palestine is probably screwed long term.

[It’s so Joever]

There will be a refugee crisis because of this war, like there is with EVERY war. I imagine the Biden administration would be very welcoming of refugees (like most Democrats are), but it will probably be more of a mixed bag in Europe. In either case, it is essential that governments do not repeat the mistake they made in WWII of denying refugees entering their countries.

I can assure you that no one in Europe wants even one of these murderous and mentally deranged "Palestinians". The entire Gaza strips needs thirty years of deprogramming to come to its senses.

Polling indicates that about 75% of Palestinians support Israel's right to exist. I am pretty sure only a fraction of the remaining 25% support Hamas' actions a few days ago. Plus, there will also be a lot of Israeli refugees, who clearly do not support Hamas' actions.

I doubt there will be a major national security risk in accepting refugees as there is probably very little overlap between those who wants to flee violence (refugees) and those who want to engage in violence (Hamas).

Why are there no protests against Hamas in the West Bank then and only celebrations?

Because the country is literally oppressed by Israel.

Exactly.

It's not that they approve of Hamas's method.

Rather, it's schadenfreude that harm has come to their oppressor.

Lmao sure. They are celebrating because they want dead Jews. That is the beginning and end of it.

Please stop treating the world as some firm oppressor/oppressed binary, not only is it stupid and wrong but it makes you sound like a college freshman who has the hots for some leftoid girl.

Or maybe they are celebrating because Israeli rockets in 2014 killed their cousins, their family members in West Bank are being forced out of their homes at gunpoint illegally, and they don’t have access to the outside world? Or more likely, it’s those factors and of course anti-admitían rampant within the populace combined (and these two factors may contribute to eachother)

Your comment is like someone saying Israelis just want to see a bunch of dead Muslims, it’s incredibly dull and makes me think you are incapable of analyzing this issue rationally. That’s not an insult by the way, if you have any connections to the region, it’s fine to be irrational, I know I get irrational on Balkan policy, but at least think about it internally. That’s what a mature person does, recognizes their biases.

[It’s so Joever]

I'll join the fun.

I like Netanyahu/Israel and Biden's response so far. A few more days of continuous bombing in Gaza and targeted killings of Hamas fighters should lead to an end of the conflict within the next few weeks; but part of me does have a feeling that some other Islamic country will try to involve themselves deeper in this - leading to worsened escalation. Let's hope not, but we'll see.

“Islamic Country”?
The only countries which have even a remote possibility of getting involved on behalf of Hamas are Iran and Syria, and neither of those are likely. Unless you think Bosnia and Bangladesh are gonna start funneling money to bus bombs just because they read the same book…

Nobody else in the Arab World wants to touch this lmao. Palestine is probably screwed long term.

Well, there are already rumors Iran orchestrated planning of it. Zelenskyy seems to be under the impression that Ukraine has evidence of Russian participation as well. There's also Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey nearby; all with differing relations to the U.S. and long-term goals. I wouldn't disqualify the possibility that things become much worse internationally.

Iraq will follow what their Iranian partners (owners) want them to do, and there is zero chance of a Turkey touching this even if Erdogan has play dough for brains.

And no, the actual Lebanese government currently is far far away from at all helping Hamas. Hezbollah sure, but not the country as a whole lmao.

[It’s so Joever]

https://twitter.com/maxboot/status/1711699545573187870?s=46

What a f**king loser lmao.

[It’s so Joever]

Link


Looks like the NYT managed to find Hnv1

The holy land everybody. Baber killers and champagne corks popping off when bombs are dropped.

Do you know anything about Sderot? God forbid people celebrate when the terrorists who rain rockets down on them day after day get their facilities and munitions knocked out. Did you harshly judge Americans for cheering when Osama was killed (which was good, btw?) Keep your self-righteous moral grandstanding to yourself. It does not somehow become unacceptable to celebrate the defeat of terrorism just because the terrorists are right on your doorstep instead of the other side of the world.

Last we heard Hnv is volunteering, despite being past reserves age, to do anything they can find for him to help Israel in this moment of crisis. I would hope you would do the same should Belgium be attacked. Going after him in such a way in this moment says much more about you than it does about him. He is clearly an honorable man and this speaks volumes.

Yet when Palestinians cheer for the same reason, you say they want the death of all Jews on here. Do you see the problems in your reasoning? Hello?