Israel-Gaza war

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A ceasefire and multilateral disengagement between Palestine and Israel occupying territory of both as decided by the 1967 agreement is in order. No one benefited from the occupation in the West Bank by Settlers and Palestinian occupation of South Israel is no just way to this. It’s time to recognize and enforce the actual borders and get back to talks of peace.

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I have 0 expertise on this but it looks like a final suicide act from the Hamas right? There is no way they will be able to survive this.

What do the experts think of that?

Gaza is immensely militarized and has at this point been mobilized for a state of war. If Israel invades Gaza the level of casualties will be the highest since the last Intifada as they actually have to sweep houses and tunnels to eliminate the bases and top-level personnel of every rebel group. It’s not like before where Israel can sit between the fence and let their Air Force get shiny kill ratios.

The securing of Israel proper is just the beginning of this war.

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I have 0 expertise on this but it looks like a final suicide act from the Hamas right? There is no way they will be able to survive this.

What do the experts think of that?

The more I think about it, I think this was meant to be a suicide action to get rid of some troublemakers and this success wasn’t planned. Something like the usual action which results in Israel firing back. But they accidental succeeded and now they’re like the dog who chased the car and got its teeth into it… while it’s still driving.

The war was to take advantage of most of the Israeli army is coddling settlers in the West Bank and take advantage of the media blitz. Palestine has already won regardless of if Israel takes back all the territory to the fence.

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I should also mention the propaganda aspect of this, this is the most successful attack by Arab forces since 1973 and by Palestinians since 1948. Israeli military supremacy and external stability has been shattered as Palestinians are at their most united state since the last Intifada, even the DFLP who hasn’t attacked Israel in two decades has given up on negotiations without teeth.

The over-reliance on the IAF and degradation of the wider IDF as the prior secular military has all but been marginalized for Likudniks has been proven relevant. Israel has been exposed as a state that cannot fight a two front war anymore.

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A huge amount of Israelis are saying that all the Israeli Army was in the West Bank giving support to illegal occupations there. Which is why the attack from Gaza was a “surprise” and so powerful.

That means, the Hamas attack managing to be this successful was a direct result from the priorities that the Hard-Right government of Israel has in favoring their Religious Extremists instead of looking after the security of the country and their people.

A significant amount of the Israeli army, which provides defense to the rampaging settlers, have been repositioned to deal with the Gazans. Palestine won in the first few hours of the war here.

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I have a feeling that this war will lead to Netanyahu being removed from power in the next election. Golda Meir was not rewarded for permanently removing the threat Egypt posed to Israel and weakening Syria to the point of ruin, and neither will Netanyahu.

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Well, outside of the extreme Serbian faction attacking Kosovo or the Amhara Nazis getting wrecked by cosmopolitans, I thought that that would be the peak of the spectacle in 2023.

I was wrong, the world is back on fire.

Seeing the Israeli tanks be taken out by Palestinian rocket fire and drones is not something I expected to see

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Yes, back in the 1980s Israel began offering citizenship to Palestinians resident in East Jerusalem. Only a tiny fraction - I believe around 5% - have taken them up on the offer.

People need to stop repeating this misleading claim. There has never been a blanket citizenship offer to East-Jerusalem Palestinians. They need to apply for it and fulfill certain conditions, which is not the same thing as an "offer".

Lying to westerners is an age old Israeli tactic

Not to derail a fascinating thread about whether Palestinians should be able to vote in Israeli elections, but does anyone know where I can find updates on the ongoing war?

After 23 years of continuous war, no one is winning at the moment but here is the score:

Israel has gradually annexed part of the West Bank, it's typically under missile attack, terrorist attacks, it periodically invades Gaza and bombs Syria, and it lost a battle in South Lebanon.

The Palestinians on the other hand are still multiplying faster inspite of sieges and becoming better and more equiped fighters, they no longer throw just rocks.

Both have become more bitter and more ruthless nationalist religious right wing as the war goes on and on, due to endless militarization of life.

Lions Den are secular nationalists and the DFLP/PFLP are communists. Palestinian rebels usually reflect the whole beliefs of the diverse people within it.

Palestine has for many years have had an indigenous weapons manufacturing industry based on small arms and explosives, even with most equipment being imported in elsewhere.

Israel at some point de-emphasized its shining jewel of an army in favor of airstrikes, perhaps the worst decision it has ever made. Meanwhile this is the first war where the Palestinians have fully embraced drone warfare to equalize the score.

It's fascinating to me how people will talk about whether Israel is a democracy or not and then in the same breath talk about how Hamas is the democratic choice of the people of Gaza. Hamas won an election in 2006, hosted a coup, severed Gaza off from the rest of the Palestinian Authority, rejected the idea of holding another election or reuniting with the West Bank, and has ignored or worked to sidetrack any peace negotiations held by the actual Palestinian government in Ramallah ever since. But sure, Hamas' Gaza is a democracy because they won a vote 17 years ago and have installed a regime of autarky and starvation and made sure no one could vote them out over it ever since.

It's wild to me that so many people in this thread are treating Hamas, rather than Fatah and Mahmoud Abbas, as the legitimate face of the Palestinians. The Palestinians have a leader and they have a government and it wants no part in this stupid war! This is on Hamas.

Following from this, I wonder if people should not consider "Palestine" a single entity anymore, but rather two: the West Bank ran by Fatah and a de facto Republic of Gaza ran by Hamas. Kinda like the PRC vs Taiwan situation (and so instead of say, a two state solution, it'd be a three state solution)

Personally I think that a state with discontiguous parts like that is doomed to separate and Palestine isn't even the first example! (East and West Pakistan say hi)

Fatah every few months is in a crisis where it may split. It’s one unifying aspect is receiving UN money that’s been cut dry.

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I have a feeling that if there’s no pushback in the West Bank or any other front, Gaza would be quickly overwhelmed conventionally.

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Palestine just reminded the entire world that their home is still a warzone, and just completely destroyed Israel’s reputation as a safe country to visit. The Israeli tourism industry is going to be dead by everyone but religious zealots and those connecting with family for a good while.

Had Fatah not have been in the way to side with Israel if there were a war in the West Bank, Palestine would have won this war. Abbas’s bantustan is the only thing blocking an end to this war. Good riddance the zealous Trump Administration finally put UNRWA’s money laundering scheme to the coffin.

All eyes are on what the supposed invasion of Gaza is going to look like, as if any other front opens up Israel will continue to get bloody and have territory be in jeopardy bit by bit. They could have ended this conflict in the 90s by recognizing Palestine but didn’t out of wanting the whole pie. Like Armenia and Cyprus before it, not reading the room has negative consequences.

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Palestine just reminded the entire world that their home is still a warzone, and just completely destroyed Israel’s reputation as a safe country to visit. The Israeli tourism industry is going to be dead by everyone but religious zealots and those connecting with family for a good while.

Had Fatah not have been in the way to side with Israel if there were a war in the West Bank, Palestine would have won this war. Abbas’s bantustan is the only thing blocking an end to this war. Good riddance the zealous Trump Administration finally put UNRWA’s money laundering scheme to the coffin.

All eyes are on what the supposed invasion of Gaza is going to look like, as if any other front opens up Israel will continue to get bloody and have territory be in jeopardy bit by bit. They could have ended this conflict in the 90s by recognizing Palestine but didn’t out of wanting the whole pie. Like Armenia and Cyprus before it, not reading the room has negative consequences.

Revealing that you view it as winning a war for Hamas to butcher innocent civilians, and as morally unacceptable for Israel to build walls to protect itself and kill those Hamas members in retaliation.

Honey, I recognized that Iran was dismantling Kurdish bases on the Iraqi border to ensure the regime’s security, but that don’t make me a basiji. It’s just my enemies being rational.

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Israeli political question - there was some talk yesterday in Israeli English-language media about formation of a national unity government, with Likud and Gantz offering their participation for the duration of the crisis.

Netanyahu seems to have said he'd only accept that if the likes of Ben Gvir also remain in the administration (which appears to be a red line for Likud).

Is there any chance of that broader coalition forming now? Or was this more about Likud and Gantz signalling cooperation for patriotic/political purposes, knowing that Netanyahu was likely to put forward some unacceptable red lines?

For narrow Bibi prefers his narrow politics. But in several days the public pressure might overwhelm him

Netanyahu will go down as a terrible wartime leader and one of the worst leaders of modern day Israel. All the hard work the US government took to propping Israel up militarily and trying to expand its worldwide influence and he still manages to fail to properly streamline these alliances or ensure that Israel can defend itself.

The man is so full of himself it is unreal.

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War surely does make people spin like hell

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Israel is specifically telling people where to go to avoid bombings.

Citation needed, because I only see calls to leave one's building or Gaza entirely (from Netanyahu).

False. There are maps asking the residents of perimeter neighbourhoods to move to the inner city. Hopefully in due time we’ll reach the inner city and then they’ll be directed to Sinai

Damn ghoul behavior

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This is the only conventional conflict against Israeli forces by the Palestinians since the war in Lebanon and they are more successful than then.

The war in Syria really was a test ground in developing such modern day infrastructure. Hamas fought for the sheiks in Idlib and wealthy chiefs while PIJ, the commies, and secular nationalists fought for Syria and got their hands dirty. They return a viable fighting force conventionally that has not been seen since the Lebanon war and ailing use of old veterans in the Intifadas. The Syrian war and Assad’s victory was the worst possible outcome for the United States and especially its proxy based in Jerusalem.

Even if Gaza gets hammered in, there’s always the West Bank fighters and the bases outside of Palestine.

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Hamas is not the only one doing everything. Each group has their own expertise, experience, and manpower that made this become a reality. One kicker was when PIJ threw more rockets than during the prior 2014 war to expose one element of this war. Shame that the experiences in Syria and the fighting of the past decade in Palestine are all in Arabic or Hebrew and don’t get translated in English.

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https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1710988452798378245?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7C...

Who in their right mind would vacation in a warzone?

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https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1710988452798378245?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7C...

Who in their right mind would vacation in a warzone?

I’m going to be generous and assume this isn’t some sick form of gloating, but comparing Israel proper to a warzone because it was surprise attacked is like asking why people would work in the warzone of New York after 9/11.

Difference is that there isn’t an insurgency in NYC or near NYC with the chance of spilling over.

Full statement that KhanOfKhans deleted from memory

“Maybe we should send you to Sinai instead. Your people already made it out of the Sinai once, so they can do it again.”

There needs to be a multilateral agreement to not be an @$$hole to one another. Hnv1 not being the bigger person is violence and perpetuates the cycle of hatred

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Apparently there is fighting in the area of Abu Dis, east of Jerusalem.

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https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1710988452798378245?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7C...

Who in their right mind would vacation in a warzone?

It was not a warzone two days ago you sick ghoul. I suppose some of them were wearing revealing skirts too.

It’s not that far from a country Israel is at war with.

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Like 2009 and 2014, the real ones know what’s up

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I should specify that I had a chance to visit the Balkans with family there, but in no way am I going to be uncomfortable with Islamist trump supporters tell me of the glory of the Rajavis. They are creepy and might kidnap me and my family.

I hear Sulaymaniyah is a nice town and the people there are avid history fans, but the risk of a missile strike or being arrested by Iraqi authorities doesn’t sound ideal.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1710988452798378245?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7C...

Who in their right mind would vacation in a warzone?

It was not a warzone two days ago you sick ghoul. I suppose some of them were wearing revealing skirts too.

It's to the border of the world's largest open air prison. A bit distasteful to party there if you ask me.

Doesn't mean they should be kidnapped/etc or so too ofc.

And it's more the organisation of the music festival that has to be criticized, not the people that attended it.

Ironically, this event was by a peace organization advocating for Palestinians. My loved ones are potentially in danger and I have no time or patience for your Judenhass right now. Kindly f**k off.

Taking drugs during Woodstock was counterproductive in ending Vietnam, and certainly endangering yourself near an active warzone is too.

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https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1711056318801248531?s=12
Israel is starting to really hammer Gaza

They’ve been pounding them since the beginning, Gazans has gotten used to it. Humans are very versatile creatures y’know

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Well...goodbye, Hamas! You will not be missed, neither by supporters or critics of the Israeli government!

You have to make alliances as purity politics isn’t how you enact change, and then you can deal with problematic people, but I fail to see the relevance here given Hamas is having a field day.

The Palestinians have been driven here and there yet have kept the rebellion going since the end of the Ottomans. It’s been over a hundred years at this point. The Circassians and wider caucuses have gone for centuries against Russia. People’s War is a long standing thing.

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If Fatah loses Gaza, then that’s one more area lost. There’s already so few spoils after UNRWA that may lead them kaput. There’s also the problem that a lot of people apart of the civil service and government in the West Bank are, yknow, fighting Israel currently and would be furious if a split occurred.

Hey, dealing with the devils close to you has some serious benefits. I’m starting to get revisionists now.