Israel-Gaza war

[Aurelius2]

25 minutes ago, Times of Israel reports that another barrage of rockets was fired toward Sderot, Netivot, and other communities near Gaza.

[Aurelius2]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/blinken-calls-on-abbas-to-condemn-hamas-attack-on-israel/

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken says he has spoken with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and is urging him to take steps toward calming the situation.

According to the US State Department, Blinken calls “on all leadership in the region to condemn” the Hamas attacks on Israel, and also urges the PA to “enhance steps to restore calm and stability in the West Bank.”

Today in Ramallah, Abbas chaired an emergency leadership meeting of the Palestinian Authority, and according to the official news agency Wafa, “gave instructions to provide protection for the Palestinian people, stressing the right of the Palestinian people to defend themselves against the terrorism of settlers and the occupation forces.”

Abbas also “gave directions to provide all that is necessary to bolster the resilience and steadfastness of the Palestinian people in facing the crimes committed by the Israeli occupation and settler gangs.”

There's no harm in asking Abbas to do this, but I would not be holding my breath. We are talking about an organization that provides terrorists and their families with pensions for life.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

Hell no, if Iran declares war on Israel then we should provide Israel with air support. Let's see how Iran would like to deal with the greatest military superpower the world has ever seen and especially the greatest air power the world has ever seen.

We must not let Israel fall under any circumstance. The history over the past many centuries show that when there is no Jewish country existing , it leads to horrible oppression and we cannot stand by and let that ever happen again. The fact is Jews need a refuge from potential oppression and that is why a Jewish nation must exist

And if the USA is stupid enough to do that. It gives China the opportunity to invade Taiwan while your planes are fighting to protect Bibi

You really no nothing about our military capabilities lol. Our military is designed to fight major wars in multiple front's at the same time and the level of intervention I am talking about would not require us too:


- Move any of our aircraft carriers out of the pacific. Keep in mind our Navy alone has stronger air power than any other nation's military

- We would not send a single ground troop here

But your actions would actively trigger a third world war. I don't doubt the USA's ability to win on all of these fronts decisively but a war where nukes are used doesn't have any winners.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

People might be getting ahead of themselves here in predicting Hamas' demise. It being a problematic organization with many problems isn't a bar to it being able to replace its losses.
Israel can severely, severely hurt Hamas and Gaza if it really wants to, but actually taking Gaza completely and destroying Hamas completely is an entirely different thing.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

Hell no, if Iran declares war on Israel then we should provide Israel with air support. Let's see how Iran would like to deal with the greatest military superpower the world has ever seen and especially the greatest air power the world has ever seen.

We must not let Israel fall under any circumstance. The history over the past many centuries show that when there is no Jewish country existing , it leads to horrible oppression and we cannot stand by and let that ever happen again. The fact is Jews need a refuge from potential oppression and that is why a Jewish nation must exist

And if the USA is stupid enough to do that. It gives China the opportunity to invade Taiwan while your planes are fighting to protect Bibi

You really no nothing about our military capabilities lol. Our military is designed to fight major wars in multiple front's at the same time and the level of intervention I am talking about would not require us too:


- Move any of our aircraft carriers out of the pacific. Keep in mind our Navy alone has stronger air power than any other nation's military

- We would not send a single ground troop here

But your actions would actively trigger a third world war. I don't doubt the USA's ability to win on all of these fronts decisively but a war where nukes are used doesn't have any winners.

That has nothing to do with whether or not we intervene on behalf of Israel . If China would use nukes to prevent our intervention in Taiwan that would happen regardless of what we do in the Middle East

[Aurelius2]

A war between Israel and Iran would be between a nuclear state (no matter how much they pretend to deny it, we all know what the "textile factory" in Dimona really is) and a state that is probably a screwdriver turn away from nukes. There is good reason to believe that there would not be the restraint wrt nukes that there has historically been between, say, the US and the USSR/Russia. This is something nobody should want, no matter how much they like to performatively talk about they would prefer for the Middle East to just not exist.

[kwabbit]

Is there any news about the actual combat? It seems like the IDF is still not in control of the situation, but I can’t imagine they would be having that much trouble in combat.

[Aurelius2]

Is there any news about the actual combat? It seems like the IDF is still not in control of the situation, but I can’t imagine they would be having that much trouble in combat.

Funnily enough, I was just about to post this:
https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1710746713814663358

[Ferguson97]

Actions having consequences is a description, not a prescription.

What actions did the Israeli civilians take?

...do you mean other than illegally occupying Palestinian land?

You're acting as if Israel is only a few years old and that the majority of Israel civilians personally conquered Palestine. This is not the Six-Day War. The median age of Israel is 29. 70% of them were born there. They hold as much moral responsibility for the illegal occupation as you and I do for the conquering of Native American lands.

If you want to criticize the formation of Israel, go for it. Want to critisize the IDF, I'm right there with you.

But to suggest that civilians hold moral responsibility for being born in the wrong country is just awful.

The Israeli citizens of today are not responsible for the actions of their ancestors or the Israeli government, just as the Palestinian citizens are not responsible for the actions of their ancestors or Hamas.

[PSOL]

A ceasefire and multilateral disengagement between Palestine and Israel occupying territory of both as decided by the 1967 agreement is in order. No one benefited from the occupation in the West Bank by Settlers and Palestinian occupation of South Israel is no just way to this. It’s time to recognize and enforce the actual borders and get back to talks of peace.

[Aurelius2]

Jeez, just looked more closely at the map I just posted, I had not realized that Hamas's initial invasion made it halfway along the gap from Gaza to the West Bank. Nightmare scenario right there.

[kwabbit]

Is there any news about the actual combat? It seems like the IDF is still not in control of the situation, but I can’t imagine they would be having that much trouble in combat.

Funnily enough, I was just about to post this:
https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1710746713814663358

Interesting, seems like the invasion will be pushed back to the border within 24 hours then. That looks like 5 miles of penetration at the moment.

[America Needs R'hllor]

An Israeli colonel, commander of the Nahal Brigade, died fighting terrorists in the area. From what I’m hearing, it’s likely multiple high commanders directly engaged and died in these confrontations defending civilians

[ingemann]

People might be getting ahead of themselves here in predicting Hamas' demise. It being a problematic organization with many problems isn't a bar to it being able to replace its losses.
Israel can severely, severely hurt Hamas and Gaza if it really wants to, but actually taking Gaza completely and destroying Hamas completely is an entirely different thing.

Having trouble with destroying Hamas is in fact the best case scenario for Israel, as it would allow them to bring as much destruction on Gaza as possible, if Hamas collapse as a house of cards large scale displacement of the Palestinians becomes much harder to sell to the world community, but fighting house to house and use artillery to destroy every apartment block would give Israel a fig leaf for the large scale displacement they will likely commit.

[jaichind]

At this stage, Hamas already got as many benefits out of the element of surprise as they could and they should shift to the defensive and get Gaza ready for bitter house-to-house combat to deal with the IDF invasion that is sure to come.

[windjammer]

I have 0 expertise on this but it looks like a final suicide act from the Hamas right? There is no way they will be able to survive this.

What do the experts think of that?

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

I have family in Ashkelon, which isn't that far away from the Gaza Strip. They're fine, but some weren't so lucky:
https://twitter.com/nasserlaham4/status/1710591870441562261?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%...

[Aurelius2]

I have 0 expertise on this but it looks like a final suicide act from the Hamas right? There is no way they will be able to survive this.

What do the experts think of that?

I have to imagine that they either were counting on cooperation from Hezbollah/others (and it's too early to rule that out). Otherwise, yes, this is very stupid.

[Logical]

I have 0 expertise on this but it looks like a final suicide act from the Hamas right? There is no way they will be able to survive this.

What do the experts think of that?

They're betting that the hostages they have captured will dissuade Israel from a full occupation. It's a foolish, desperate bet, but it was the only option they had to scuttle the normalization talks.

[Aurelius2]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-muslim-umbrella-org-issues-statement-backing-palestinians-no-mention-of-hamas-attacks/

The United States Council of Muslim Organizations (USCMO), a Muslim umbrella organization in the US, issues a statement reiterating its support for Palestinians, and does not mention or condemn in any way the Hamas attacks on Israeli civilians.

The statement condemns “the recent unprovoked and continuous attacks by Israel on Palestinian towns, cities, and refugee camps” as well as “the inhumane siege imposed on the nearly 2 million inhabitants of Gaza,” which the organization says is “an implied declaration of open war on the Palestinians which oblige them to be in constant self-defense.”

The organization calls on the US government “to exert pressure on the occupation regime to immediately cease these atrocities” and criticizes any Arab and Muslim nations that have normalized relations with Israel.

Well then.

[Vice President Christian Man]

Absolutely disgusting what's going on. I pray for the Israeli people and that soon enough this war will end. This is 9/11 levels of terrorism and I am disturbed by those who's playing Devil's advocate.

[PSOL]

I have 0 expertise on this but it looks like a final suicide act from the Hamas right? There is no way they will be able to survive this.

What do the experts think of that?

Gaza is immensely militarized and has at this point been mobilized for a state of war. If Israel invades Gaza the level of casualties will be the highest since the last Intifada as they actually have to sweep houses and tunnels to eliminate the bases and top-level personnel of every rebel group. It’s not like before where Israel can sit between the fence and let their Air Force get shiny kill ratios.

The securing of Israel proper is just the beginning of this war.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I have 0 expertise on this but it looks like a final suicide act from the Hamas right? There is no way they will be able to survive this.

What do the experts think of that?

There are strong indications this is linked to normalization efforts, but nothing is known for sure. It also seems that tensions relating to the Dome of the Rock had a major part to play. Nonetheless, whatever caused this, it is certain to end with misery higher than when it began. For both Israelis and Palestinians.

[ingemann]

I have 0 expertise on this but it looks like a final suicide act from the Hamas right? There is no way they will be able to survive this.

What do the experts think of that?

The more I think about it, I think this was meant to be a suicide action to get rid of some troublemakers and this success wasn’t planned. Something like the usual action which results in Israel firing back. But they accidental succeeded and now they’re like the dog who chased the car and got its teeth into it… while it’s still driving.

[bilaps]

I have 0 expertise on this but it looks like a final suicide act from the Hamas right? There is no way they will be able to survive this.

What do the experts think of that?

I'm not an expert, but first things first, what Hamas have to lose?

And the second thing, Palestinians alone don't stand any chance to achieve something vs Israel. Their hope is to enlarge the conflict to other nations. This seems highly unlikely but narrative will change when Israel starts ground operation and Palestinian humanitarian disaster is gonna be put upfront. Or maybe some nations decide to play Turkey's role in Syria and thousands of fighters join the fight. Given what we've seen from Israel today, outside of air superiority, they don't seem so good any more.