Voter suppresion/"stealing the election" megathread

[Wiz in Wis]

I really don't understand certain posters and the media 's hypocrisy.

 What happened in Michigan or more specifically Wayne County where Detroit is is a protest against shoddy election administration.

https://rrhelections.com/index.php/2020/11/18/political-roundup-for-november-18th-2020/

The Wayne County Board of Canvassers has voted to certify the election results after initially voting 2-2 along party lines not to do so. The dispute in question seems to stem from the absolutely atrocious bookkeeping in Detroit, with many precincts having out-of-balance tallies, i.e. having more or less total votes than ballots counted. Avid followers of the 2016 election might remember this being a thing then too, when the out-of-balance tallies were an issue when Jill Stein tried to force a recount. The board agreed to certify the election in exchange for auditing some of Detroit’s most out-of-balance precincts, but not before ripples of “REPUBLICANS ARE COUPING THE ELECTION” flooded across the twitter verse, along with a Trump tweet saluting the (initial) decision, because of course he did.

How can you on one hand argue count every vote and on the other hand argue against this? If total votes are less than ballots cast, you're literally not counting every vote. If total votes are more than ballots cast, then you are nullifying the legal vote of someone else, which means you're not really counting it.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/17/wayne-county-canvassers-deadlock-certifying-november-3-election-results/6324274002/

The board's votes came after absentee ballot poll books at 70% of Detroit's 134 absentee counting boards were found to be out of balance without explanation. The mismatches varied anywhere from one to more than four votes.

In August, canvassers found 72% of Detroit's absentee voting precincts didn't match the number of ballots cast. The imbalances between August and November are not an exact comparison since August's canvassing was based on results from 503 precincts and November's canvassing was based on 134 counting boards.

How are 70% of Detroit's absentee counting boards having inaccurate vote counts per the Detroit News possibly acceptable to anyone? Counting votes is pretty much the only job these boards have. I'll be fair, don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity, and if they're incompetent at their jobs, they should be fired, and never put in a position regarding election administration ever again. If it's because it's just not possible for them to conduct an election properly and accurately, that's a failure of Wayne County government failing its citizens in their constitutionally required role.

Is it going to change the result of the presidential election in Michigan? No. Is this the correct action to take? Yes. If conducting fair and open elections is the bedrock upon which democracies are based, then the only acceptable standard is 100% accuracy with zero errors in conducting the election and counting votes. It's why I have an immense amount of ridicule for election boards with out-of-date voter rolls, which are everywhere in this country because they don't do good maintenance keeping them up.

Know how I know you don't work in election administration. There is no human system with millions of points of data that could ever achieve 100% perfection absent hundreds of millions of dollars and tens of thousands of workers... and even then, it would still almost certainly have flaws. No American election has ever been held to this standard. No advanced democracy operates this way. You're being purposefully obtuse.

[Wiz in Wis]

https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1329447311907450882

Good lord, this whole show is an embarrassment to the legal community.

[Wiz in Wis]

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1334316061605421059

I know I’ve said this before, but you really can’t make this sh*t up.

She said, "some people think all Latins look alike (gesturing toward herself with her hands). I think all Chinese look alike."

Some people think all blacks vote alike (or if they don't that they aren't black).

This context doesn't make her seem less racist.

[Wiz in Wis]

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1334316061605421059

I know I’ve said this before, but you really can’t make this sh*t up.

She said, "some people think all Latins look alike (gesturing toward herself with her hands). I think all Chinese look alike."

Some people think all blacks vote alike (or if they don't that they aren't black).

This context doesn't make her seem less racist.

When I voted, the election clerk was black. She had me pull my mask down so she could check my photo ID. That was not racist on her part.

I overheard a conversation between two women, either Chinese or Vietnamese. They apparently had known each together in high school, but had gone their separate ways in college and after, but were having a reunion of sorts. They seemed to be discussing their families, and they were discussing in-laws of a sibling. "Wasn't she married to an X?", "You have a good memory. Filipino, actually, but they all look alike." (shared giggle).

I had a co-worker who was Korean-American. He was incredibly racist against both Japanese and Chinese Americans (he was also surprisingly anti-semetic). So... again, still racist.

[Wiz in Wis]

So is it right to say that the Trump campaign hasn't proven a SINGLE case of voter fraud in a single court?

Correct, largely because they are not focusing on any substance. I mean, clearly there ARE individual cases of election fraud in all 50 states, there always are. But when you are talking about dozens of votes, not even hundreds, why would you waste your time on the real fraud (1/2 of which would be pro-Trump).

[Wiz in Wis]

What does Trump mean when he talks about the signatures in Georgia?

When absentee ballots are processed, the signatures on the envelopes they arrive in are compared to the signatures on voter registration files. Only if there is a "match" is the ballot legitimate.

After matching, the envelopes are opened and the ballot itself is seperated from the envelope with the signatures to ensure voter secrecy.

Then the actual ballots are counted.

Trump wants to go back and rematch signatures, which is impossible since the ballots and the signatures are seperated after signature verification.

So basically, it is a completely ridiculous bad faith argument from Trump and his cronies. All they care about is making it seem like the election was fraudulent.

The signatures were not matched in accord with Georgia statute.

If large numbers of ballots were unlawfully accepted it could have affected the outcome of the election. Assuming ballots were fraudulently cast, the ballots would likely tilt one way. It would taint the result of the election, regardless whether you can identify the ballots.

You are the one making the bad faith argument:

You are arguing that even if it is determined that a crime was committed, that since we can not know who committed it, or what the effect of the crime was.

Show your work, Jim. SOS office says the process was the same as 2016 and 2018.

[Wiz in Wis]

.

What is wrong with checking signatures?

The signatures were checked at the time the ballots were processed.

The only thing the Georgia settlement changed was 1) requiring multiple election officials to agree that a signature mismatch existed before rejecting a ballot, and 2) requiring election officials to more promptly notify voters of a signature mismatch to give the voter a chance to resolve the issue.

Also, and I cannot stress this enough, the signatures were checked TWICE. Once a person registered to vote absentee, their signature was compared to the one on file (usually a drivers license) to serve as ID, and then again when the ballot envelope was received.

And, for the record, signature matching should probably be considered dubious if multiple people don't reject the match. Otherwise you'd get inter-coder reliability issues. What if Bob decides to be a real stickler on dotted i's but Jerry doesn't care... that creates due-process issues. If both Bob and Jerry have to reject it... that's a better system.

[Wiz in Wis]

Why not check them again to give assurance that everything was done correctly.

Because 1) you can’t. As already discussed, the ballots are separated from the envelopes at this point, and 2) if you give a conspiracy theorist a cookie, they’ll want a glass of milk.

If voting was done in person on paper ballots (one per office), after voters showed ID, and were counted in the precinct on election night, we would have known on November 3 who was elected.

Why would knowing the result on November 3rd be more important than ensuring voting was widely accessible during a pandemic?

What you are saying is that there is now a pile of ballots where there was not a complete chain of custody from the time someone marked the ballot. We don't know whether anyone was influenced to vote.

In 2018, while I was voting, an elderly couple was voting, and the husband was assisting his wife (I think she had vision problems - I was listening while I was voting). The election judge was administering the oath to the husband. In Texas, an assistant can not make suggestions or guess how to vote ("You want Biden for President, right?"). But in this case, the assistance can at least be observed. The election judge was careful not to give the voting slip to the husband before his wife had finished voting. A voting slip has a code that is entered into a voting machine that ensures that voter is authorized to vote and the correct ballot style is presented. It is time limited, so the husband was not given his at the same time he was assisting.

What I am saying that is voting is in person, the process can be observed. Identity of voters could be verified. The ballot box would be fully in view throughout the day. Ballots would be counted by hand. The ballots would be placed in stacks and the stacks counted. The ballot count would be recorded and signed by all observers. The ballots would be secured and take to a central location in case a recount was necessary.

We would also know what the voters wanted on November 3, not in early October.

If there was a health risk of in-person voting, delay the election.

Go to h*ll you crazy b@$%@$d! A President cannot unilaterally delay an election under US law.

Congress could, or governors can.

No, Governor's cannot change FEDERAL election days, dummy.

[Wiz in Wis]

There are times and places to editorialize and times and places not to.

Pointing out that focusing on Dane and Milwaukee like this is clearly racially motivated (as well as an equal protection clause violation for plenty of additional reasons) was, however, an incredibly important point to make and I'm shocked it hasn't been made by more judges handling these cases.

Did vote harvesting occur in other counties?

Know how I know you don't know what "vote harvesting" means in this case?

[Wiz in Wis]

Mssr McConnell, Après vous, le déluge:

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1338865492807675908

[Wiz in Wis]

https://twitter.com/JimSwiftDC/status/1338837350462451712

Between Boebert, MTG, and Good (and perhaps others), the GOP freshman class is really going to give Louie Gohmert a run for the title of America's Dumbest Congressman.

Don't forget Madison Cawthorn!

[Wiz in Wis]

The Democrats need to use all these fraud claims as a chance to submit federal legislation to move locales towards paper ballots/paper trails and scientific auditing to improve election security. If there's any moment Republicans might agree to it, it's around now...

There should be paper ballots cast in person on election day and counted the night of the election. The ballots should be one per office. Voters should show their federal ID.

Uh... why?

[Wiz in Wis]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1344142388063821825

Fun Fact!

Brad Raffensberger doesn't have a brother!

[Wiz in Wis]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1344142388063821825

Fun Fact!

Brad Raffensberger doesn't have a brother!

He actually does, but he's not the same as the "brother" alleged in these crazy Trump tweets.

https://twitter.com/stphnfwlr/status/1344306956866097152

Ah... good to know. Still... amazing nonsense coming out of the Donald these days.