Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread v2 (pg 77 - declares victory in Iowa)

[GoTfan]

Just when you think the next attack can't possibly be more pathetic, desperate and misleading than the last...

Not a good look for the establishment. :/

The Washington Examiner posted this latest news and that is a right-wing publication. Not exactly a DNC establishment. If Bernie Sanders is the nominee and can't handle Trump's attacks, then he is toast.

If that is the best they can throw out there, then I suddenly feel very confident about the general election. Half joking of course, but these attacks are coming off as increasingly desperate and meaningless.

It's a test to see if they can suppress the black vote. You all expect "the blacks" to fall in line for Bernie because they have no other choice, but things like this matter more than you think. Black voters already feel marginalized as it is, so a choice between Sanders and Trump could result in staying at home winning. In 2020 looks like 2016 then depressed turnout in Detroit, Milwaukee and Philadelphia would put Trump back in office.

Aren't you the type of people who'll then scream that progressives should fall in line despite feeling marginalised?

Half of the Democrats on here would prefer Trump to Sanders, it seems.

[GoTfan]

Just when you think the next attack can't possibly be more pathetic, desperate and misleading than the last...

Not a good look for the establishment. :/

The Washington Examiner posted this latest news and that is a right-wing publication. Not exactly a DNC establishment. If Bernie Sanders is the nominee and can't handle Trump's attacks, then he is toast.

If that is the best they can throw out there, then I suddenly feel very confident about the general election. Half joking of course, but these attacks are coming off as increasingly desperate and meaningless.

It's a test to see if they can suppress the black vote. You all expect "the blacks" to fall in line for Bernie because they have no other choice, but things like this matter more than you think. Black voters already feel marginalized as it is, so a choice between Sanders and Trump could result in staying at home winning. In 2020 looks like 2016 then depressed turnout in Detroit, Milwaukee and Philadelphia would put Trump back in office.

Aren't you the type of people who'll then scream that progressives should fall in line despite feeling marginalised?

Half of the Democrats on here would prefer Trump to Sanders, it seems.

First off, you don't live here so there is no marginalizing you. Second, if progressives want to go Bernie or Bust, they are free to make that choice, because everyone is free to vote for who they like.

It's not a matter of preferring Trump to Sanders, it's a matter of knowing what the outcome will be well in advance of the election. Sanders would lose.

And yet, you'll still scream at them to shut up and get in line.

And yes, its is a matter. At least of the Democrats on here hate Sanders enough that they'd vote for Trump.

[GoTfan]

Just when you think the next attack can't possibly be more pathetic, desperate and misleading than the last...

Not a good look for the establishment. :/

The Washington Examiner posted this latest news and that is a right-wing publication. Not exactly a DNC establishment. If Bernie Sanders is the nominee and can't handle Trump's attacks, then he is toast.

If that is the best they can throw out there, then I suddenly feel very confident about the general election. Half joking of course, but these attacks are coming off as increasingly desperate and meaningless.

It's a test to see if they can suppress the black vote. You all expect "the blacks" to fall in line for Bernie because they have no other choice, but things like this matter more than you think. Black voters already feel marginalized as it is, so a choice between Sanders and Trump could result in staying at home winning. In 2020 looks like 2016 then depressed turnout in Detroit, Milwaukee and Philadelphia would put Trump back in office.

Aren't you the type of people who'll then scream that progressives should fall in line despite feeling marginalised?

Half of the Democrats on here would prefer Trump to Sanders, it seems.

First off, you don't live here so there is no marginalizing you. Second, if progressives want to go Bernie or Bust, they are free to make that choice, because everyone is free to vote for who they like.

It's not a matter of preferring Trump to Sanders, it's a matter of knowing what the outcome will be well in advance of the election. Sanders would lose.

And yet, you'll still scream at them to shut up and get in line.

And yes, its is a matter. At least of the Democrats on here hate Sanders enough that they'd vote for Trump.

Personally, I don't care who Sanders supporters vote for and I wouldn't ask a single one to support any Democrat. Your arguments are all based on concern over what others say. If you have as much principle as you claim you wouldn't care what they say.

I wouldn't vote for Trump, but I wouldn't vote for Sanders either. I feel no need to vote for someone who is going to lose.

Cool. Then Sanders supporters aren't obliged to vote for Biden.

[GoTfan]

Pro-Israel Democratic super PAC takes aim at Bernie Sanders in Iowa

A pro-Israel Democratic super PAC is launching a new television ad on Wednesday in Iowa that questions Sen. Bernie Sanders' electability and raises the specter of his health following a heart attack last fall. The 30-second spot, which will run throughout the week, comes in response to Sanders' rise in the polls and marks a late acknowledgement from some within the Democratic establishment that the Vermont senator is a legitimate contender for the party's nomination in 2020. The Democratic Majority for Israel's political arm is spending $681,000 on the ad, which features a string of voters expressing concerns over Sanders' general election prospects and health. It does not address Israel or Sanders' foreign policy positions.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/29/politics/pro-israel-democratic-super-pac-attacks-sanders-iowa-ad/index.html

Bernie Sanders backed by 200,000-member postal workers union in 2020 primary


Sen. Bernie Sanders notched a big national labor endorsement Thursday only days before the 2020 Democratic primary nominating contests start. The more than 200,000-member American Postal Workers Union backed the Vermont senator, the latest in a growing list of U.S. labor unions to support a Democratic presidential candidate. The endorsement comes only four days before the first-in-the-nation Iowa caucuses.

“Bernie Sanders has proven he is a fierce advocate on the side of postal workers. He has opposed the closures of postal facilities and reduced service standards,” said Mark Dimondstein, president of the APWU, which represents mostly U.S. Postal Service employees and retirees.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/30/bernie-sanders-backed-by-american-postal-workers-union-in-2020-primary.html

DMFI is running ads against Bernie?  Glad to see them making their voice heard; I may have to donate tbh.  It's important to have a progressive pro-Israel group as a counterweight to the conservatives at AIPAC.  If nothing else, hopefully this pushes the self-hating Jews at J-Street even further into political oblivion.

Is Sanders a self-hating Jew?

[GoTfan]

https://twitter.com/ShaneGoldmacher/status/1223397756867436546

Hillaey, Hillary, I understand you're bitter and hate Sanders more than GeneralMacarthur . . . But no one apart for your fanatics cares.

[GoTfan]

And look at all the WOWs in the comments saying "THIS ISN'T AN APOLOGY", "KEEP IT" and "NOT GOOD ENOUGH".

One of the most basic rules of modern politics that Democrats don't seem to grasp: never apologize. Democrats do have a lot to learn from Trump in terms of playing the game, but don't tell the WOWs that! #CampaignSoTrump

Hardly anybody means it when they apologize. On top of that, apologizing makes you look weak and it does nothing to change the minds of people who are largely just concern-trolling for their "team" in the first place. F[inks]k their feelings: if Sanders prevails, they'll get in line like the good little "Vote Blue No Matter Who!"people they are: it's the other side of the coin where unity is a concern.

Oh please. Half of the Democrats on here would prefer Trump to Sanders because they hate him more than Trump. Oh sure, they'll say they made a pledge, but pledges are meaningless. Half of the people who even added their names to it said "Only if Bernie isn't the nominee."

Unity is only important when the left is dissenting. If the moderates go after Sanders and his people, it's 'fair and reasoned.' but the second Sanders says anything more than a peep, it's 'unfair and bulls**t'.

I'm past it. We already have one person who's said they won't vote for Sanders, but at least they're honest about it, unlike the usual suspects on here who say they will if forced to, then likely won't or even actively work to undermine him, as I bet at least half of the forum Democrats would.

[GoTfan]

And look at all the WOWs in the comments saying "THIS ISN'T AN APOLOGY", "KEEP IT" and "NOT GOOD ENOUGH".

One of the most basic rules of modern politics that Democrats don't seem to grasp: never apologize. Democrats do have a lot to learn from Trump in terms of playing the game, but don't tell the WOWs that! #CampaignSoTrump

Hardly anybody means it when they apologize. On top of that, apologizing makes you look weak and it does nothing to change the minds of people who are largely just concern-trolling for their "team" in the first place. F[inks]k their feelings: if Sanders prevails, they'll get in line like the good little "Vote Blue No Matter Who!"people they are: it's the other side of the coin where unity is a concern.

Oh please. Half of the Democrats on here would prefer Trump to Sanders because they hate him more than Trump. Oh sure, they'll say they made a pledge, but pledges are meaningless. Half of the people who even added their names to it said "Only if Bernie isn't the nominee."

Unity is only important when the left is dissenting. If the moderates go after Sanders and his people, it's 'fair and reasoned.' but the second Sanders says anything more than a peep, it's 'unfair and bulls**t'.

I'm past it. We already have one person who's said they won't vote for Sanders, but at least they're honest about it, unlike the usual suspects on here who say they will if forced to, then likely won't or even actively work to undermine him, as I bet at least half of the forum Democrats would.

I made that comment half-jokingly, but there is some truth to it. Sanders is bringing in people who are not guaranteed for vote for Democrats regardless, or vote at all absent him: independents, young voters, etc.

Though it's definitely worth remembering that the WOW class consists of an absurdly large segment of people who were just fine with voting GOP when it benefited their economic interests - so long as they weren't rude to others! - who may buck sooner or later. However, I imagine the YASSS QUEEN #woke WOW Donuts will stick with Democrats until taxes increase to alleviate inequalities for minorities, the poor and the disenfranchised, which won't happen before the 2020 election obviously. Either #UseEmThenLoseEm or #UFkWithUsUStuckWithUs applies here.
 

I highly doubt that. You only have to look back a page or so on this thread to see someone imply Sanders is a self-hating Jew, for example.

[GoTfan]

I highly doubt that. You only have to look back a page or so on this thread to see someone imply Sanders is a self-hating Jew, for example.

Atlas is not reflective of American politics, both among neolibs and leftists alike. There's only one group of posters (who can be counted on one hand) whose behaviors should be noted as constituting benefit or trouble in general elections: those of us integrated into the party apparatus itself. On top of that, I'm sure the vast, vast majority of outliers even here are in states that don't matter in terms of general election outcomes (CA, FL, OH, etc).

Oh, I can go on Twitter and literally find accounts dedicated to smearing and 'exposing' him on anything from campaign finance to him being racist and sexist. RFKfan has implied multiple times (though without directly saying it) that he's an extreme racist, for example.

[GoTfan]

I think I made a joke poll a while back about how the Democrats should nominate Ted Cruz for president.  After all, vote blue no matter who, and Cruz will bring in lots of Republicans and Independents who otherwise wouldn't have voted Dem.  People didn't like it and the mods deleted it.

But now we see that exact argument being made about Sanders and how he's going to bring in the Joe Rogan audience, or Cenk and his band of misogynist incels, or Glenn Greenwald and his club of latter-day Jane Fondas, or Jill Stein and the green party saboteurs.  Heck, why not shoot for an Alex Jones endorsement so you can bring in the redneck conspiracy theorist vote?

"He's going to bring in voters who won't vote for Biden!"
"Isn't beating Trump the most important thing?"
"I can't wait until Biden loses in November so the Dems can see just how badly they need us"

If all I cared about was beating Trump and nothing else, I'd nominate Ted Cruz.

We care about a lot more than just beating Trump.  We care about the character of the next president.  We care about the things he will do with power once he obtains it.  We care about the character of the party, the leader who takes it over and the movement he brings with him.  While I'd still vote for Sanders, what's the point of beating Trump if I have to sacrifice my own party to the same sorts of knuckleheads to do it?  I'd rather have an N% chance of beating Trump with a good, decent man who leads with integrity and character, than an N+10% chance of beating Trump with someone who wants to burn down 70% of the Democratic Party on his way there.

Translation: I'd rather lose with a moderate than win with a leftist.

Just stop obfuscating and say you won't vote for Sanders no matter what.

[GoTfan]

I think I made a joke poll a while back about how the Democrats should nominate Ted Cruz for president.  After all, vote blue no matter who, and Cruz will bring in lots of Republicans and Independents who otherwise wouldn't have voted Dem.  People didn't like it and the mods deleted it.

But now we see that exact argument being made about Sanders and how he's going to bring in the Joe Rogan audience, or Cenk and his band of misogynist incels, or Glenn Greenwald and his club of latter-day Jane Fondas, or Jill Stein and the green party saboteurs.  Heck, why not shoot for an Alex Jones endorsement so you can bring in the redneck conspiracy theorist vote?

"He's going to bring in voters who won't vote for Biden!"
"Isn't beating Trump the most important thing?"
"I can't wait until Biden loses in November so the Dems can see just how badly they need us"

If all I cared about was beating Trump and nothing else, I'd nominate Ted Cruz.

We care about a lot more than just beating Trump.  We care about the character of the next president.  We care about the things he will do with power once he obtains it.  We care about the character of the party, the leader who takes it over and the movement he brings with him.  While I'd still vote for Sanders, what's the point of beating Trump if I have to sacrifice my own party to the same sorts of knuckleheads to do it?  I'd rather have an N% chance of beating Trump with a good, decent man who leads with integrity and character, than an N+10% chance of beating Trump with someone who wants to burn down 70% of the Democratic Party on his way there.

Translation: I'd rather lose with a moderate than win with a leftist.

Just stop obfuscating and say you won't vote for Sanders no matter what.

That's a terrible translation.  There's shades of grey in everything.

What if I told you we could nominate Joe Lieberman for a 75% chance of winning, or nominate Sanders for a 65% chance?  Would you "rather lose with a leftist than win with a conservadem"?

Lieberman hasn't been relevant since he dive-bombed Obamacare.

It's pretty clear you hate Sanders more deeply than anyone else on the planet. One does not have to look hard at any of your posts to get that.

[GoTfan]

Lieberman hasn't been relevant since he dive-bombed Obamacare.

It's pretty clear you hate Sanders more deeply than anyone else on the planet. One does not have to look hard at any of your posts to get that.

Drive-by cheap-shot and then dodging the question.  Oh Atlas, never change.

There are plenty of worse people in this world than Sanders but on a political forum about the 2020 presidential election, Sanders and his crew are the only people I really dislike.  Everyone else is pretty much fine, even Warren.  If you want to see me post about Trump, head on over to U.S. General Discussion.

You don't just 'dislike' him though. It's plainly obvious you hate him.

[GoTfan]

Lieberman hasn't been relevant since he dive-bombed Obamacare.

It's pretty clear you hate Sanders more deeply than anyone else on the planet. One does not have to look hard at any of your posts to get that.

Drive-by cheap-shot and then dodging the question.  Oh Atlas, never change.

There are plenty of worse people in this world than Sanders but on a political forum about the 2020 presidential election, Sanders and his crew are the only people I really dislike.  Everyone else is pretty much fine, even Warren.  If you want to see me post about Trump, head on over to U.S. General Discussion.

You don't just 'dislike' him though. It's plainly obvious you hate him.

I literally won't care about him at all once he stops trying to take over my party.  If he retired to his lakehouse tomorrow and I never had to hear again about how awful and evil the Democrats are and how I want poor people to die, I wouldn't think about him at all.

How very Orwellian. "You are not allowed to criticise the Party."

[GoTfan]

Lieberman hasn't been relevant since he dive-bombed Obamacare.

It's pretty clear you hate Sanders more deeply than anyone else on the planet. One does not have to look hard at any of your posts to get that.

Drive-by cheap-shot and then dodging the question.  Oh Atlas, never change.

There are plenty of worse people in this world than Sanders but on a political forum about the 2020 presidential election, Sanders and his crew are the only people I really dislike.  Everyone else is pretty much fine, even Warren.  If you want to see me post about Trump, head on over to U.S. General Discussion.

You don't just 'dislike' him though. It's plainly obvious you hate him.

I literally won't care about him at all once he stops trying to take over my party.  If he retired to his lakehouse tomorrow and I never had to hear again about how awful and evil the Democrats are and how I want poor people to die, I wouldn't think about him at all.

How very Orwellian. "You are not allowed to criticise the Party."

He's allowed to do whatever he wants, just like I'm allowed to think he's a complete asshole for what he says and what he does.

This fishing around for strawmen is really lame.

Okay then, to use your logic he's allowed to run in the Democratic primary. Can we agree on that?

[GoTfan]

Sanders is crucial because he has the potential to provide much needed reform to this systemic failure. I don't think he's going to single handedly 'fix' the Party, but the shock is necessary. You would think 2016 would be that shock, but apparently the leadership still doesn't get it. It's an absolute joke and things need to change, fast.

He's shocking it in the wrong direction.  The only reason we were able to accomplish so much in 2009 (yes, still not enough) was because we had a supermajority composed of moderate democrats and conservadems.  Even one more moderate democrat and we'd have a public option.  A handful more and we'd have comprehensive immigration reform and cap-and-trade.

Are you out of your goddamn mind?! Getting to 60 votes was a herculean task by itself and that only lasted for a couple of days. There is no conceivable way we could've gotten to 63 or 64 Senators.

Fact is, they had more than 50 votes for the vast majority of bills that were passed by the House. Getting to the filibuster proof 60 votes was the problem. The Obama Administration could have used reconciliation to pass some legislation, but opted not to do that. The Administration could have ended the legislative filibuster as well, but again, it chose not to do that. This was a mistake and cost the Party dearly in the years that followed.

I say, let's take the dozen or so policies from the Democratic Platform that the vast majority of America supports, such as:
Universal background checks and an assault weapons ban
Reduced drug prices and a public option
Increased border security paired with a pathway to citizenship
Raising the minimum wage
Making college affordable and community college free
Cap-and-trade national dividend program
Criminal justice reform
Campaign finance reform

This was the platform in 2016. I don't think I need to tell you how that worked out.

Policy isn't the problem. The Republican Party regularly wins elections despite many of their policy proposals polling very poorly. The problem is perception. On issue after issue, the Party plays defense and allows the Republicans to control the conversation. By letting the Republican Party control the narrative of a story or a policy proposal, the Democratic Party puts itself at perpetual disadvantage.

When a person votes, they are asking themselves, "Who cares about me," and, "Who wants what I want?" Many people see the Democratic Party as a moribund institution that stands for nothing (or worse, stands against them), and that the Party only cares about niche interests. As a consequence, voters outside of major metros have a strong aversion to voting Democratic.

The people of rural America are not rubes who voted for Trump out of deep seated racism nor are they 'concerned citizens' who wonder how America can pay for social programs. They just see the Democratic Party as an adversary that could never represent their interests.

This is what happens when you let the other side control the narrative. This is what happens when you perpetually neglect Party infrastructure. Sanders' campaign is a reaction to this organizational rot.

You can't win only on policy.  But you can lose only on policy.  Look at 2010, when the country flipped entirely against us in just two short years on only two issues -- socialized medicine and exploding the national debt.

You're acting like policy doesn't matter at all so let's just take the most politically toxic and extreme positions imaginable.  This is just a recipe for disaster.

Yes, the Democratic Party is falling apart.  Sanders isn't trying to fix that.  He's trying to take advantage of it.  If he cared, he would actually try to help the party, for instance by sharing his fundraising infrastructure like every other candidate, or perhaps joining the damn party.  He doesn't actually care about the party other than as a vehicle for his hostile takeover.

Let's fix the party instead of burning it to the ground.  Is that such a radical notion?  The party won a big victory in 2018 and had complete, filibuster-proof control of all three branches of government not even a decade ago.

I believe that part of the reason Sanders gets so much love from the 18-29 crowd is because they don't remember this.  They only see the party as it has existed for the last few years.  In 2014 I was begging everyone on my campus to go vote, and none of them listened to me; those same people are posting on Facebook now that the party is weak and corrupt and must be destroyed.  In 2016 the party lost due in part to its own weaknesses but also due to a lot of factors completely outside our control; meanwhile a full 15% of 18-29 voters cast their votes for a third party (compare to only 3% of voters over 50).  In 2018, we won.  The older you are, the more elections back you remember, and the more you understand the tremendous progress the Democratic Party has been responsible for in this country and just how, time and time again, it's stood up for what's right.

Ah yes, my favourite attack "Bernie supporters are too young and stupid to know what the world is like."

Because that is going to make them vote for the Democrats.

[GoTfan]

I honestly don't see him getting the nomination. He needed Iowa.

[GoTfan]

I honestly don't see him getting the nomination. He needed Iowa.

Thanks, we didn’t see the other 10 places you posted this

Yet to be proven wrong.

[GoTfan]

Bernie will ensure the young base doesn't become apathetic like they did under Obama.

LMAO. Please. He couldn’t even top 2016’s IA caucus turnout let alone Obama’s 2008 performance. Sanders can’t sit with Obama on his WORST day.

Fpur leading candidates in 2020 vs. 2 in 2008

[GoTfan]

Sanders should probably drop out. The media narrative that he lost Iowa is already out there, and Buttigieg is probably going to win New Hampshire.

[GoTfan]

NHS is a terrible system

Change your avatar color immediately.

No country outside the UK thinks it's a good idea. It is more expensive and provides worse outcomes than the Nordic model. The only reason anyone would support it is because of some sad, ideological passion for nationalizing everything.

Then why did people in the UK literally march to save it from being privatised? Do you feel proud to be using Repiblican talking points?

[GoTfan]

https://twitter.com/SueAnnRawlins/status/1226322414650503168?s=20

Um, excuse me, I was told this was just a small handful of assholes on the internet and had nothing do with the campaign?  Is that still the talking point?

You tell us to shut up on conspiracy theories, yet are directly posting a conspiracy theory.

[GoTfan]

https://twitter.com/SueAnnRawlins/status/1226322414650503168?s=20

Um, excuse me, I was told this was just a small handful of assholes on the internet and had nothing do with the campaign?  Is that still the talking point?

You tell us to shut up on conspiracy theories, yet are directly posting a conspiracy theory.

This isn't a "conspiracy theory."  It's something that someone directly saw.  Watching members of the campaign lead chants is not open to interpretation.

You may think she's making it up, but this is something Sanders organizers also did in 2016.  Little has changed.

No, it is a conspiracy theory with no evidence to prove that the campaign headquarters ordered it.

Either prove that the campaign hq ordered it, never, ever call us comspiracy theorists again.

[GoTfan]

https://twitter.com/PatrickAKarlson/status/1227792891872858113

“Sanders was honored to have been endorsed for the Democratic nomination by seven black members of the South Carolina legislature, he announced in a tweet.”

“...two of the lawmakers had collected a combined total of almost $150,000 Sanders’s campaign, according to records.”

Buttigieg: Multiple conflicts of interest

"Get over it Bernie Bros"

Sanders: Endorsed by minorities

"Wait that's illegal"

[GoTfan]

https://twitter.com/ConorLambPA/status/1228430867078488075

Another anti-endorsement.

"Let's do this environmentally risky measure because JOBS."

[GoTfan]

https://twitter.com/BrendanNyhan/status/1229108306351984641?s=20

https://twitter.com/BrendanNyhan/status/1229150186150211585?s=20

Looks like someone's having a bit of a personal crisis now that Sanders is in the box seat.

[GoTfan]

https://twitter.com/BrendanNyhan/status/1229108306351984641?s=20

https://twitter.com/BrendanNyhan/status/1229150186150211585?s=20

Well, Bernie just dropped from my second choice to my second-to-last preference (ahead of Gabbard).  Anyone who essentially sided with the USSR over their own country like that is unfit for office.

Oh no! How will he survive this devastating announcement?!

It's fake news as well, as more than 5 minutes of research would show.