COVID-19 Megathread 4: Grandma Got Run Over by the Dow Jones

[Calthrina950]

Erm. Washington DC, we have a problem that you might want to do something about...

https://twitter.com/SBAJovita/status/1246218482762514433

There are about 30 million small businesses in the USA...

If the small businesses that have gotten loans so far are representative of the average small business, and each small business got a loan equal to the average sized loan so far, that would come out to a total of $9,255,556,190,367.37 in loans (30,000,000/17,503*5,400,000,000 if you want to check the math). That is $9.26 trillion... But only $350 billion is budgeted for the program in total...

That means there are only enough loans for something like 3.8% of all the small businesses in the USA...

Let's say that this rough estimate math is off though substantially, by an order of magnitude. In that case, there would be enough loans for 38% of all small businesses.

Which is not remotely enough!!! What on earth were they thinking in how they set this up???

The stimulus bill passed by Congress, in spite of the vast sum allocated to it, seems like it will do little to help the vast majority of Americans.

[Calthrina950]

I can provide some more ancedotal observations regarding the impact of the "mask" advisory and "stay-at-home" orders at my workplace, Home Depot. The store, like just about every store in this area, has started limiting the number of customers who can be in the store at any one time. No more than 100 are allowed in, and there is only one entrance and one exit. This has reduced the flow of people coming through, though it's still busy.

However, compliance with the "mask" advisories that Governor Polis and the CDC issued last week is "half-hearted", at best. Roughly half of the customers I saw today and on Saturday were wearing masks or some other covering, and half were not. I was one of only a handful of employees wearing masks, and the only one wearing both a mask and gloves; most of them were not. Two customers actually thanked me for wearing a mask, as they observed that most of the others didn't. Unfortunately, many people still aren't taking this seriously enough. Many people will not wear protective gear of any kind, much less masks, unless if they are mandated to do so.

[Calthrina950]

I live in an area of north Georgia that went 80+% for Trump in 2016.

People here still aren’t social distancing in large numbers. I still hear people using the “flu kills more people” argument. Or claiming that it’s just being overblown by the media. Or that it’s a liberal conspiracy to cause a recession because that’s the only way they think they can beat Trump.

Fortunately, my area is not heavily populated. Otherwise the idiocy would result in many more cases than we currently have.

I just don’t see how people can be so stupid.

Living through this, there is a clear divide in intelligence between those living in places where I live and those living in places that vote Democratic.

I've said much of the same thing about people who I've had to interact with-though fortunately, I've been able to stay home most of the time. The unfortunate reality is that many people will not take this seriously, and will not take steps to protect themselves, unless if they are mandated to do so, and unless if they are personally affected by the virus.

[Calthrina950]

Is there anyone here who still maintains that the US is on an Italy-type disease trajectory?  Or can we all reasonably agree that the United States looks like it will be one of the "success stories" of the global pandemic?  If so, can we talk about what factors have influenced the U.S. emerging relatively unscathed from this?  Better testing, more docs/ventilators, lower population density, younger demographics, warm weather, etc.

I don't think that we are going to see the "worst-case" scenarios, that have been proposed, at this point. However, that doesn't mean that our approach to this has been "flawless". Not by any means. If Trump had not denounced coronavirus as a "hoax" and had taken more serious measures from earlier on, we could have reduced the impact of this even further.

[Calthrina950]

This is easily the most stupid ‘event’ I have lived through. Reopen the US economy.

Tens of millions unemployed, with half a billion worldwide being plummeted into poverty. Based on faulty and erroneous data. All for what?

Get the virus and see. It's not fun having it

I thought that I got it a few weeks ago, after having gone to a store near my house where an employee was diagnosed with it. And I thought I may have had it a week or two before that as well. Moreover, a co-worker of mines had a friend who died from it. So for me, this thing has never been a joke. While I think that some of the reaction to it has been over-hyped-hence my condemnations of media sensationalism-I also think that the measures which have been taken were necessary to stem the disease's spread, and in many respects, have succeeded in doing so.

[Calthrina950]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JimLaPorta/status/1249865253803954176
Peak Florida.

Ron DeSantis is a buffoon. I take back everything good that I said about him.

[Calthrina950]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JimLaPorta/status/1249865253803954176
Peak Florida.

Ron DeSantis is a buffoon. I take back everything good that I said about him.

Good for you (not sarcasm).

I love seeing blue avatars that aren't mindless GOP cultists.

As I've said many times before, I am a registered independent (or unaffiliated voter, as we're known in Colorado), not a Republican. I adopted this avatar before my hiatus for reasons I won't hash out here.

[Calthrina950]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JimLaPorta/status/1249865253803954176
Peak Florida.

Ron DeSantis is a buffoon. I take back everything good that I said about him.

Good for you (not sarcasm).

I love seeing blue avatars that aren't mindless GOP cultists.

As I've said many times before, I am a registered independent (or unaffiliated voter, as we're known in Colorado), not a Republican. I adopted this avatar before my hiatus for reasons I won't hash out here.

How will you be voting in the general (not that Colorado is any particular danger for Biden?)

I'm honestly leaning towards Biden at this point, though I may still go third-party. I long ago resolved never to vote for Trump under any circumstances, and I didn't vote for him last time.

[Calthrina950]

Your Coronavirus Check Is Coming. Your Bank Can Grab It.

This week, the $1,200 CARES Act payments Congress approved in response to the coronavirus crisis will begin to appear in Americans’ bank accounts. The funds will be wired to eligible recipients who previously authorized the IRS to post their refunds (or Social Security payments) through direct deposit. This will speed relief far more quickly than having the IRS mail a check, which could take up to five months.

But the money may not make it into the hands of those who need it to pay bills, buy food, or just survive amid mass unemployment and widespread suffering. Individuals might first have to fend off their own bank, which has just been given the power to seize the $1,200 payment and use it to pay off outstanding debt.

Congress did not exempt CARES Act payments from private debt collection, and the Treasury Department has been reluctant to exempt them through its rulemaking authority. This means that individuals could see their payments transferred from their hands into the hands of their creditors, potentially leaving them with nothing.

FFS!!!

At this point, it's increasingly obvious that the massive "stimulus" bill was more of a poison than a medicine, to use that terminology. Riddled with flaws, and doing little to alleviate the structural inequalities which have been exposed by, and exacerbated by, the coronavirus epidemic.

[Calthrina950]

My state, Georgia, isn’t projected to peak until May 1 (as of now) with a total death projection nearing 4000.

Meanwhile California, which far surpasses us population wise, is only projected to have something around 1500 deaths total.

Why such a far discrepancy considering the population differences?

I certainly believe that the individual responses of the state governors is a major factor in this. I don't like Gavin Newsom, but he has run a strong response to the pandemic in California, while Brian Kemp is ignorant and deferred on taking action.

[Calthrina950]

My state, Georgia, isn’t projected to peak until May 1 (as of now) with a total death projection nearing 4000.

Meanwhile California, which far surpasses us population wise, is only projected to have something around 1500 deaths total.

Why such a far discrepancy considering the population differences?

I certainly believe that the individual responses of the state governors is a major factor in this. I don't like Gavin Newsom, but he has run a strong response to the pandemic in California, while Brian Kemp is ignorant and deferred on taking action.

That doesn't explain anything.  Tennessee wasn't super fast in shutting down, and the UW model only projects 481 deaths and a peak of less than 10% of hospital capacity.  For every example supporting that story, you can find one that doesn't support it.

I've underlined the critical sentence of my post in response to this. I did not try to claim that this was the only factor at play, but it is a factor. And for the record, Kentucky to your north responded much more quickly and effectively to this outbreak, and hence has a better trajectory in terms of cases. And there are many examples of where such decisive action might have curtailed the pandemic's spread, such as in Florida, which has been noted numerous times on here.

[Calthrina950]

Trump is going to ride this victory over the Invisible Enemy to a second term. “Mission Accomplished”

Hmmm....

You're forgetting the second, far more nefarious enemy that could be his undoing, and which has already begun to manifest itself: a recession. If the economy continues to go into freefall after the pandemic subsidies, then Trump's chances will be harmed. No President (aside from Franklin D. Roosevelt, and those were extraordinary circumstances) has ever won reelection while the economy has been in recession.

[Calthrina950]

It’s reactions like this as to why there are downplayers of climate change. Prediction after prediction wrong. It’s hard to make sensible policy decisions when models continue to be wrong.

This is partially true, but one also has to consider that climate change is a much more gradual and less visible process than this pandemic has been-at least in terms of its direct effects on society and on individual livelihoods. People will not change their views about climate change until they begin to personally experience its effects.

[Calthrina950]

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) — Two House Democrats have introduced legislation that would give millions of Americans $2,000 per month during the coronavirus pandemic.
The new bill is called the Emergency Money for the People Act.

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/04/15/emergency-money-for-the-people-act-stimulus-bill/

This is not going to pass. It was enough trouble as it is to get the one-time payment through Congress, considering the objections many Republicans like Lindsay Graham and Ben Sasse had to it (although they ultimately acquiesced).

[Calthrina950]

Governor Cuomo mandating the wearing of masks in public (where social distancing is not possible):

https://mobile.twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1250472598720430086

Didn't the WHO say not to wear masks? Or does that matter now that Trump cut its funding?

When I was last at work on Monday, I wore a mask early on, but got tired of adjusting it, and eventually took it off. Given that the CDC and various state governors (like mine's), have recommended doing so while out in public, I felt bad for doing so. But I've heard and read that masks aren't intended to protect you from getting the virus; they are intended to protect others from getting it from you.

[Calthrina950]

How stupid are Michigan Republicans?

https://twitter.com/MI_Republicans/status/1250463355468423170

LOLZ getting sick to own the libz!

Went on Snapchat map to view public stories in the area, it appears a bunch of people, including teenagers with "young people against Whitmer" signs have started physically protesting outside the capital.

What did she do even? How could anyone protest her?

Michigan's order is a bit more restrictive than most.  For example, Michiganders are now prohibited from travelling between private residences which they own.

I think a legitimate argument can be made that Whitmer has gone too far with her order. For example, some of her measures banning the sale of non-essential goods in grocery and hardware stores seem to stray into the realm of authoritarianism. However, I don't think that should excuse the behavior of neo-Confederates and white supremacists who seem to be taking advantage of this crisis to espouse their hateful agendas, as with many of these protesters in Lansing.

[Calthrina950]

Governor Cuomo mandating the wearing of masks in public (where social distancing is not possible):

https://mobile.twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1250472598720430086

Didn't the WHO say not to wear masks? Or does that matter now that Trump cut its funding?

When I was last at work on Monday, I wore a mask early on, but got tired of adjusting it, and eventually took it off. Given that the CDC and various state governors (like mine's), have recommended doing so while out in public, I felt bad for doing so. But I've heard and read that masks aren't intended to protect you from getting the virus; they are intended to protect others from getting it from you.

The other benefit of a mask that I've found is that it serves as a constant reminder to not touch my face.

Honestly I found it to be the opposite. I went to the store wearing a cloth one the other day and like Calthrina spent so much time touching my face to adjust it that I wondered if it served more harm than good

This is exactly why I decided to take mines off. Every few minutes, my mask would slide down from my nose, and I kept on trying to adjust it. I got tired of that, especially since I know there are other people who will scrutinize you for doing so, and will accuse you of being careless. It's better not to wear a mask when this kind of situation happens.

[Calthrina950]

The situation here in Washington State is looking a bit more optimistic. Active cases are down about 100 from yesterday, and the rate of new cases has definitely slowed down over the past few days.

That's because pandemics die down. They always do.

Panic never accomplishes anything good. Fear and panic almost certainly contributed to the death toll of this virus. Some people are so invested in fear that they don't have the energy to find constructive solutions.

"The virus decides" is not a good national slogan. It truly is hard to believe that the first country to send astronauts to the moon couldn't make sure there were enough tests for this virus, and couldn't do contact tracing.

That's because America is a nation in decline. The coronavirus epidemic is merely another sign of our gradual deterioration, and indeed, it has accelerated it.

[Calthrina950]

Ilhan Omar unveils bill to cancel rent and mortgage payments amid pandemic

The Minnesota congresswoman Ilhan Omar has unveiled a bill that would cancel rent and mortgage payments for millions of Americans struggling amid the coronavirus pandemic.

Under the legislation announced on Friday, landlords and mortgage holders would be able to have losses covered by the federal government. The program would extend for a month beyond the end of the national emergency, which was declared on 13 March, and would be made retroactive to cover April payment.

The proposal comes amid an unprecedented housing crisis: 31% of Americans in rental accommodation could not pay rent at the beginning of this month. Millions have lost their jobs since.

Even thinking about the poor landlords too? Love you girl 💕

She's a queen and I stan her... when she doesn't open her mouth about Israel.

You shouldn’t be like that to her when she tells the truth about Israel, Saudi Arabia, or anything for that matter.

She's quite right about Israel 80% of the time, but 20% of the time she takes it too far, and when she tells the truth about Israel she always says it in the wrong way. She might be a bigot - I don't want to get into that - but even if she isn't, she always talks in a way that makes it sound like she might be one. It makes non-bigots agreeing with her look like bigots by association.

Seriously though. Government paying rent / mortgage right now is a great idea during this crisis.

You should probably suspend your discussion of this, before this thread is derailed again.

[Calthrina950]

Agreed. Say Calthrina, what is your take on the other stories? Namely the union busting in Trader Joe’s, empty airplane flights, and evictions of namely Californian renters during this crisis?

I've indicated elsewhere my views on this, namely the economic devastation that this crisis has wrought.

[Calthrina950]

Agreed. Say Calthrina, what is your take on the other stories? Namely the union busting in Trader Joe’s, empty airplane flights, and evictions of namely Californian renters during this crisis?

I've indicated elsewhere my views on this, namely the economic devastation that this crisis has wrought.

Could you direct me to them or paraphrase them once more?

I've made reference here: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=369360.msg7297920#msg7297920. My earlier post was more so seeking a shutdown of the conversation about Israel and Middle Eastern policy-a subject unrelated to this thread, then it was about Omar's proposals relating specifically to this crisis.

[Calthrina950]

This hasn't been commented much on here, but I'm sure people have noticed how the initial mask "advisories" and "recommendations" are rapidly turning into mandatory "requirements". Cuomo made mask-wearing mandatory in New York a few days ago. Governors Wolf of Pennsylvania and Lamont of Connecticut have also made it mandatory in those states; parts of California (i.e. Riverside County, Bay Area) mandated mask-wearing weeks ago; and municipalities throughout the country have begun requiring it as well.

Yesterday, in Colorado, Governor Polis made mask-wearing mandatory for all essential employees in the state: https://www.kktv.com/content/news/Critical-workers-must-wear-mask-569742921.html. He has not yet made it mandatory for all Colorado residents, but some parts of the state (i.e. Routt County) are apparently starting to do so, and it wouldn't surprise me if Polis eventually follows suit, like he did with his stay-at-home order after the Denver metropolitan area began implementing them. At the rate things are going, the majority of Americans will soon be required to wear masks in public, which is a good thing, but one that I didn't think I would see happen here, and which hasn't happened in about a century.

[Calthrina950]

Trump aside, it astonishes me the extent to which the coronavirus pandemic is merely reinforcing polarization and partisanship. This is particularly true here in Colorado, where Democrats have praised, and largely approve of, Polis' response, and Republicans are opposed. At my job today, I overheard conversations in the break room regarding that response. Frustrations were expressed about the shutdown, and the need for the economy to be reopened was something that I heard frequently. Someone also made a joke about Polis' "enforcers", of the stay-at-home order, and expressed anger over the possibility of a mandatory mask requirement being imposed.

I also heard some more insidious comments, a reminder to me of how stereotypes and racism have been fueled by this crisis. Two other coworkers of mines were having a conversation about this story: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/melania-trump-coronavirus-lockdown-puzzle_n_5e9ac046c5b6ea335d5be8c7. Melania Trump tweeted out a "White House puzzle" for people to complete while under quarantine. Critics responded to this by denouncing her husband's response to the pandemic and criticizing her for "tone-deafness", as people are losing their lives.

My coworkers were angry about the response, and one woman said that if "Big Mama Michelle Obama" had done something similar to Melania, she would have been praised. I found this term to be offensive (as a black person), and could barely contain myself from interjecting into their conversation. I'm well aware of the negative things which have been said about Michelle Obama-calling her a "monkey" and everything else in between, and it astounds me how people revert to such images when confronted with a controversy.

[Calthrina950]

Trump aside, it astonishes me the extent to which the coronavirus pandemic is merely reinforcing polarization and partisanship. This is particularly true here in Colorado, where Democrats have praised, and largely approve of, Polis' response, and Republicans are opposed. At my job today, I overheard conversations in the break room regarding that response. Frustrations were expressed about the shutdown, and the need for the economy to be reopened was something that I heard frequently. Someone also made a joke about Polis' "enforcers", of the stay-at-home order, and expressed anger over the possibility of a mandatory mask requirement being imposed.

I also heard some more insidious comments, a reminder to me of how stereotypes and racism have been fueled by this crisis. Two other coworkers of mines were having a conversation about this story: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/melania-trump-coronavirus-lockdown-puzzle_n_5e9ac046c5b6ea335d5be8c7. Melania Trump tweeted out a "White House puzzle" for people to complete while under quarantine. Critics responded to this by denouncing her husband's response to the pandemic and criticizing her for "tone-deafness", as people are losing their lives.

My coworkers were angry about the response, and one woman said that if "Big Mama Michelle Obama" had done something similar to Melania, she would have been praised. I found this term to be offensive (as a black person) and could barely contain myself from interjecting into their conversation. I'm well aware of the negative things which have been said about Michelle Obama-calling her a "monkey" and everything else in between, and it astounds me how people revert to such images when confronted with a controversy.

You're black? No reason I would know this I suppose, but I'm surprised it's never come up in conversation on the Forum before.

I've mentioned it several times before, but you've probably never come across the instances in which I did. But yes, I am, and I'm particularly aware of the effect this pandemic is having upon communities of color. Hence, my inward reaction to what my co-workers were saying.

[Calthrina950]

Trump aside, it astonishes me the extent to which the coronavirus pandemic is merely reinforcing polarization and partisanship. This is particularly true here in Colorado, where Democrats have praised, and largely approve of, Polis' response, and Republicans are opposed. At my job today, I overheard conversations in the break room regarding that response. Frustrations were expressed about the shutdown, and the need for the economy to be reopened was something that I heard frequently. Someone also made a joke about Polis' "enforcers", of the stay-at-home order, and expressed anger over the possibility of a mandatory mask requirement being imposed.

I also heard some more insidious comments, a reminder to me of how stereotypes and racism have been fueled by this crisis. Two other coworkers of mines were having a conversation about this story: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/melania-trump-coronavirus-lockdown-puzzle_n_5e9ac046c5b6ea335d5be8c7. Melania Trump tweeted out a "White House puzzle" for people to complete while under quarantine. Critics responded to this by denouncing her husband's response to the pandemic and criticizing her for "tone-deafness", as people are losing their lives.

My coworkers were angry about the response, and one woman said that if "Big Mama Michelle Obama" had done something similar to Melania, she would have been praised. I found this term to be offensive (as a black person) and could barely contain myself from interjecting into their conversation. I'm well aware of the negative things which have been said about Michelle Obama-calling her a "monkey" and everything else in between, and it astounds me how people revert to such images when confronted with a controversy.

You're black? No reason I would know this I suppose, but I'm surprised it's never come up in conversation on the Forum before.

I've mentioned it several times before, but you've probably never come across the instances in which I did. But yes, I am, and I'm particularly aware of the effect this pandemic is having upon communities of color. Hence, my inward reaction to what my co-workers were saying.

Fwiw, it would be an obnoxious thing for your co-workers to say under any circumstances, but to do so within hearing of an African American co-worker takes a particular level of ignorant a$$hole, and you were perfectly justified in feeling incensed. IMHO anyway.

Certainly, and what's especially galling is that they were talking about the weather beforehand, and I said something to them about it. And the woman who made that remark about Michelle Obama was someone who I had a few friendly interactions with previously. But then again, I work at Home Depot, and my workplace seems to be dominated by right-leaning, conservative types. So I shouldn't have been too surprised.