2024 Third Party and Independent Candidate General discussion

[MichaelM24]

I see this hasn't been active since December 2022, but as a third party voter, I thought I'd add some more candidates currently running.

For Libertarians, I'm seeing a handful of 'major' candidates thus far:

1) Joe Exotic
--In 2016, he ran for president as independent, getting 962 votes
--In 2018, he ran in the Libertarian primary for Oklahoma governor, getting 18.7% (3rd place). He was censured by the Libertarian Party of Oklahoma during the campaign, from my understanding.

2) Jacob Hornberger
--In 2020, he ran in the Libertarian primary for president, and was the front-runner for a time, only to lose favor as Amash jumped into the race, and eventually lost to Dr. Jo Jorgensen.

3) Lars Mapstead

4) Mike ter Maat
--In 2022, he ran in U.S. House Florida District 20, getting 395 total votes (0.7%; 3rd place)

5) Chase Oliver
--From my understanding, he's formed an exploratory committee, but hasn't officially announced.
--In 2022, he ran in the United States Senate race in Georgia, getting 2.07% (81,365 total votes)


American Solidarity Party

-- Seven people have announced their intent to receive the Party's nomination (done by convention)
-- All seven candidates have interviews up on ASP's YouTube
-- Two of these seven candidates have ran for office in Indiana, which, as a Hoosier, I found interesting

1) Jacqueline Abernathy
--In 2022, she ran in the Texas Gubernatorial race as a write-in, receiving 1,243 votes (5th place, 0.0%

2) Larry Johnson
--In 2022, he attempted a run in the Pennsylvania Senate race as a Democrat, but was disqualified from appearing on the primary ballot.

3) Erskine Levi Jr.
--In 2022, he ran in the U.S. House California District 31 primary as a write-in, receiving a total of 17 votes.

4) Mark J. Powell
--In 2020, he ran in the Democratic primary for US. House Indiana District 9, getting second place with 19.9% (9,872 votes).

5) Joe Schriner
--In 2004, he got 142 votes in his run for president (had write-in access in Maryland, Ohio, Utah, and Idaho)
--In 2008, he got 82 votes in his run for president (had write-in access in Ohio, Minnesota, and Maryland)
--In 2012, he got 0 recorded votes in his run for president (despite write-in access in Montana and West Virginia)
--In 2016, he got 75 votes in his run for president (write-in access in nine states - 62 of these votes came from Ohio)
--In 2020, he got 13 votes in his run for president (he had write-in access in only Indiana, which is where he got these 13 votes)


6) Peter Sonski
--Seems to be an elected member of a school board in Connecticut

7) Mike Vick
-- In 2020, he was the Democratic nominee for Indiana State House District 29, getting 34% (14,228 votes)


Prohibition Party
-- Two people (to my knowledge) have announced their intent to receive the Party's nomination (done by convention)

1) Zack ‘Strength’ Kusnir
--somewhat well-known for his support of the Keto diet, and is also a former football player. He has over 43,000 Twitter followers, and so has a wider platform than many who have sought out the Prohibition nomination.

2) Michael Wood
-- a former CEO, and active in the party, having been "elected to the Prohibition National Committee and the Executive Committee of the Prohibition Party."


There are multiple parties that, to my knowledge, don't have notable candidates running (or having announced intent):

1) Green Party
2) Constitution Party
3) Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)
4) Socialist Workers Party (SWP)
5) Socialist Equality Party (SEP)
6) Socialist Party USA (SPUSA) *endorsed Green Party nominee Howie Hawkins in 2020*
7) Workers World Party (WWP)
Socialist Action *Ran Jeff Macker in 2016 - 15 write-in votes in NY*
9) Freedom Socialist Party (FSP) *Hasn't ran presidential candidate since 2012; Stephen Durham, who got 117 votes); critically endorsed Socialist Action in both 2016 and 2020*
10) Working Class Party *Not sure if they intend to run presidential candidate*
11) Unity Party
12) Alliance Party
13) Approval Voting

We do know the Forward Party has confirmed they don't intent to run a presidential candidate for 2024.

Please let me know what candidates I may be missing. If I run into other names that might be worth a mention, I'll post them here.

[MichaelM24]

By the sound of it, there won't be much third-party voting at the presidential level in 2024. Who's heard of any of these people?

I would expect third party total vote counds to be about the same as in 2020, if not a little higher, so while no doubt a small amount of people, given I'm likely one of them, I thought it worth mentioning.

True, many of the names listed are smaller, but they're also from smaller parties (such as the American Solidarity Party and the Prohibition Party), so I expect once the Libertarian primaries commence, not to mention the Green Party primaries, some more attention may fall on them.

Even if attention never does fall on them, I think it's still worth knowing your options (naturally, of course, depending on each candidates' ballot access).

[MichaelM24]

Any thoughts on the Libertarian nominee? Will it be a nobody like in 2020, or could someone like Amash get in?

All things considered, I thought Jo Jorgensen did decent in 2020. We all knew there was no way she could match Gary Johnson's 2016 results, and she got almost 60,000 more votes (.19%) than Johnson's 2012 run.

And she may have been unlikely - I think many Libertarians were expecting Jacob Hornberger to be the nominee, or hoping for Arvin Vohra or Adam Kokesh. To be fair, though, Jorgensen was the VP nominee in 1996, so she wasn't exactly a nobody, in my view.

Amash, if he runs, could take it. I know some Libertarians don't necessarily care for him, but there's no doubt he has the name recognition. Chase Oliver isn't a bad bet, and I do think Mike ter Maat's interesting, but it's also fair to say that only around four have announced so far, and in 2020, around twenty candidates ran, so we've not seen the majority of names they'll put forward.

[MichaelM24]

Wanted to reply to a couple of individual pieces of your post. Deeply appreciate the updates on the ongoings of third parties.

Making this be brief but the main trends we are seeing are that Libertarian infighting and desertion are really harming the party at large. The statewide defections where they are losing ballot access have stopped but the donor money and membership dropping hasn’t. A shame stateboiler is in the muck of this to be unable to let us know of his insights.

Just earlier today (or yesterday, I guess), I went through the FEC filings of Libertarians (20 total), and only six really stood out (Chase Oliver, Jacob Hornberger, Lars Mapstead, Joshua Rodriguez, Mike ter Maat, and Illinois Secretary of State 2022 nominee Jon Stewart).

Save Hornberger and Oliver, none of the names are particularly notable, I feel. Jorgensen was at least the Libertarian VP nominee; sure, people know Chase Oliver from his Senate race in Georgia, but overall, the field seems rather weak.

The prohibition party has shifted considerably left after a transgender lesbian joined the party. They’ve become pro-choice and shifted generally to the center or left on all issues aside from their namesake.

I know that Michael Wood was nominated, but I have to admit that past that annoucement, I haven't looked up his campaign or the state of Prohibition's ballot access (which has been weak for decades).

The Green party is in an incredibly awkward position with Hawkins being the main “left” figurehead of an Ukraine Solidarity League. People on the high up are not happy about it and that this comes after the resignation of the GNC floor leader and disassociation from the American-continent wide Green party conference isn’t showing good signs. All the while the WCP, PSL, and more socialist organizations seem to be on the up and up for this election. The primaries for P&F are going to either be a dud or especially rough.

I have a family member who is a national delegate for the Green Party (and to be forthcoming, I voted for Jill Stein in 2016 and Howie Hawkins in 2020), and the contention over Hawkins has very much split the party. I believe that they've had mutliple votes that ended around 50/50 due to the Ukraine issue.

I've not seen anything from the socialist parties (WWP, SEP, SPUSA, Socialist Action, FSP, PSL, and SWP), but I'd be curious to see which of them decides to put a candidate forward. If I recall, the FSP hasn't run a presidental candidate since 2012 with Stephen Durham (and he did have write-in access in 16 states according to Green Papers, which isn't shabby).

The ASP has held their fourth and last primary debate to choose a candidate. I am not able to have the time to watch it, but regardless any ASP candidate will do well. I expect they and the PSL are the only third party or independent ticket to cross over 100k aside from the libertarians and greens.

I watched the first, second, and final ASP debates. Disappointed that Mark Powell and Mike Vick dropped out (Vick in particular was interesting, as he entered the party from the left), but some decent moments.

I'd suspect that either Peter Sonski or Dr. Jacqueline Abernathy will be nominated; Dr. Larry Johnson did well in the final debate, but didn't impress me overall, whereas neither Erskine Levi Jr. or Joe Schriner stood out in any way (well, Schriner did, but I just don't see the membership nominating him).

[MichaelM24]

Cornel West is the first candidate in the race I'm actually interested in potentially voting for. Glad that he's looking into securing the Green Party's nomination.

Not that it would matter for me, of course - Indiana has absolutely atrocious ballot access laws, and Stein wasn't on the ballot in either 2012 or 2016 - but here's hoping that his campaign goes well, and he's able to get the ballot access necessary to make a dent in things.

[MichaelM24]

Socialist Alternative has given a pre-endorsement pledge. They are most likely waiting for him to be the Green party nominee.

Not too surprising.

I'm mostly curious what other socialist parties are doing. I could imagine the SPUSA also tentatively backing Cornel West (as the did Hawkins), but others (SEP, SWP, PSL, WWP, Socialist Action, and FSP, if they're still a thing) likely wouldn't, and I'm wondering what they'll get up to.

[MichaelM24]

2000 tarred third party reputations as spoilers, at least for the left, forever, sorry

No candidate with anything to lose wants to commit political suicide

So then what third parties need to do is combat the "spoiler" label and point out that those who want to restrict ballots are, by definition, anti-democratic.

I agree that leftists who run independent or third party are tarred as such, but that certainly doesn't make it accurate, and that certainly doesn't mean they should lie down and continue letting people make those accusations against them.

[MichaelM24]

I agree that leftists who run independent or third party are tarred as such, but that certainly doesn't make it accurate, and that certainly doesn't mean they should lie down and continue letting people make those accusations against them.

To be fair third party leftists and such won't do that, Nader himself ran two more times with ever more diminishing returns. But again I'm talking about a figure like Sanders. Heck maybe that's why Justin Amash won't run, I imagine.

To be fair, Nader did do better in 2008 than in 2004, but that's not surprising, of course.

I don't disagree with most of what you said. No one who seriously associates with the Democratic Party is likely to run a third party or independent campaign, but I think that just goes down to their political philosophies.

Personally speaking, as a Sanders supporter in 2016 and 2020, I wasn't bothered by his endorsement of Clinton and Biden - I didn't follow his advice, and voted how I thought was best - but certainly, if it's his belief to try and change the Democratic Party the way he's been trying, that's his own business.

I've not been paying close attention to the Libertarian candidates, but I know that Amash had some critical reception in 2020, and while I don't think him running would tear the party apart or anything, given the state of the party right now, I wouldn't blame high profile names from thinking twice.

[MichaelM24]

$35,000 is an awfully high filing fee. While I don't doubt the Green Party could raise that, there's also a good point to be made that the money could be used in better ways, such as down-ballot candidates.

Obviously, I'd love Oklahoma citizens to have as many choices as Colorado, but it should definitely be discussed among membership.

And I saw this as a guy from Indiana - Jill Stein wasn't on the ballot in 2012 or 2016, nor was Hawkins on the ballot in 2020. Luckily, though, in all cases, they were certified write-in candidates, so supporters could still vote for them.

[MichaelM24]

Sincerely hope that West gets on as few ballots as possible.

With all due respect, it's that anti-democratic attitude that really turns me away from Democrats.

If someone wants to vote for Cornel West, as I am likely to do should he make the list of certified write-in candidates in Indiana, how is that so awful as to be a choice that is taken away from them?

If anti-third party individuals passed laws that banned third parties from having ballot or write-in access, I would never vote again. Disenfranchising people you disagree with does not seem a particuarly wise idea, in my view.

[MichaelM24]

I didn't love Stein, but I voted for her in 2016. At the time he was running, I preferred Hawkins' campaign in 2020, but the fact that Cornel West has a big name in the party behind him will definitely help.

[MichaelM24]

With that, the biggest winner has got to be Richard Winger and BAN who have gotten the word out there that they exist.

I saw that he was stepping down from BAN, which isn't surprising, given how long he's been doing it, but I'm hoping that Redpath is able to keep things strong (and maybe combat some of the trolls that have taken to the comments section).

Definitely appreciate BAN - one of the few sites I check in on every day.

[MichaelM24]

I see Cornel Derangement Syndrome is the new normal

If someone's a Democrat, or a Biden supporter, I sort of expect them to be anti leftist alternatives. They were against Nader, McKinney, Stein, etc., so the pattern holds. (Notice that I didn't list Cobb, who ran a somewhat "safe state strategy" - Democrats were probably still pissed at him, but not as pissed as with other candidates).

I don't have a dog in this race, aside from the fact I'm 95% likely to vote for some third party candidate. Could be Cornel West, could be whoever the Greens nominate if it's not West, or could be another candidate from another party.

That said, I don't go out of my way to attack Biden or Trump supporters - if that's who some people want to vote for, so be it. I wish those who expressed interest in third party candidates got the same modicum of respect.

[MichaelM24]

Speaking of the Libertarians, Donald Rainwater is again running for governor of Indiana. In 2020, he 11.4% (and in one-third of the counties here, he beat out the Democrat). He's not going to do nearly as well this time around, I'd imagine, but I hope that he can put in a good showing (and I say that as someone who didn't vote for him).

[MichaelM24]

The Party for Socialism and Libertarian (PSL) have announced their presidential ticket - Claudia de la Cruz and for VP, Karina Garcia.

They released a video for those interested:

PSL haven't had write-in access in Indiana, and I don't know if I'd have preferred Gloria la Riva over Monica Moorehead (WWP), for instance, in 2016, but as a socialist, I appreciate their message, and I hope that they get as much ballot access as possible.

[MichaelM24]

love claudia from her work w/ the people's forum, codepink and lots of other leftist organizing. hate claudia for making me have to choose between her and cornel 

I really think (and always have) that leftist presidential candidates should endeavor to hold debates in order to hash out their policy differences.

Look back at 2020 - how many people could have told you the differences between Joseph Kishore, Howie Hawkins, Alyson Kennedy, and Gloria La Riva?

I'd love to see West and De la Cruz, and whoever else runs (from perhaps the SPUSA, SWP, WWP, etc.) have multiple discussions of their visions moving forward. It would also be educational insofar as explaining the different places they have ballot access (because let's be real, there are people out there supporting Cornel West that will never get the chance to vote for him).

[MichaelM24]

I was briefly a member of the SPUSA - spoke to 2016 Presidential candidate Mimi Soltysik prior to his death on a Zoom call. Still have my membership card, though it's been expired for years.

I'm definitely interested in seeing who they run, and it's perhaps important to add this: back in 2016, Mimi Soltysik did get write-in access here in Indiana, whereas Gloria La Riva (PSL) didn't, so if the SPUSA gets write-in access here again while Claudia De la Cruz doesn't, I'll be curious as to why that is.

Also, on a site-note, Monica Moorehead (Workers World Party) also got write-in access here, and given that the PSL is much larger than the WWP, it does make me wonder what they're hang-up is.

[MichaelM24]

I was briefly a member of the SPUSA - spoke to 2016 Presidential candidate Mimi Soltysik prior to his death on a Zoom call. Still have my membership card, though it's been expired for years.

I'm definitely interested in seeing who they run, and it's perhaps important to add this: back in 2016, Mimi Soltysik did get write-in access here in Indiana, whereas Gloria La Riva (PSL) didn't, so if the SPUSA gets write-in access here again while Claudia De la Cruz doesn't, I'll be curious as to why that is.

Also, on a site-note, Monica Moorehead (Workers World Party) also got write-in access here, and given that the PSL is much larger than the WWP, it does make me wonder what they're hang-up is.

Mimi Soltysik died? That's sad, he looked young.

Back in 2020. Cancer, if I recall. Definitely sad when I heard it (though I knew he'd been battling illnesses for a while, so I can't say I was surprised).

I didn't personally like the campaign he ran in 2016, but I respected that he went out there and tried to make his case (which is more than what I can say of some other leftist candidates in the last twenty years).

[MichaelM24]

Honestly, the better question is which states will have RFK Jr. either on the ballot or as a write-in option.

Because a state could be absolutely fantastic for him, but if he doesn't have the ballot access, it doesn't matter at all.

[MichaelM24]

I'd like to see the evidence that the only reason RFK Jr. is running is to "ruin Biden."

First off, no one owes Biden anything. Democrats don't owe Biden their votes, nor should Biden just blindly expect all Democrats to vote for or support him. Many will, but some are turned off for various reasons, and that's on Biden, not those who are witholding their votes.

More importantly, I dislike RFK Jr. for a variety of reasons, but I suspect he's running for the exact same reasons that candidates like Jill Stein, Gary Johnson, Evan McMullin, Darrell Castle, Jim Hedges, Monica Moorehead, Jo Jorgensen, Virgil Goode, Patrick Buchanan, and Ralph Nader ran - because though it's unlikely that they'll have a traditional victory, they believe in the policies they're running on, and they think they could potentially do a better job than the current administration (be it a Democratic or Republican one).

I don't care for RFK Jr. whatsoever, and under no circumstances will I vote for him, but I'm not going to go around claiming that he's only running to "ruin Biden" or "ruin Trump," because that does a disservice to all the independent and third party candidates who have run or are running for entirely legitimate reasons.

[MichaelM24]

A couple of other people have sent in questionnaires to the SPUSA to be considered in their nominating process.

Brian Moore, who was the 2008 SPUSA nominee (receiving 6,582 votes, getting 11th place), is apparently attempting to get the nomination.

What I found interesting is that he apparently is also attempting to get the Green's nomination (which was news to my brother, who is state-wide delegate for the Green Party), in a move similiar to Hawkins' in 2020.

Moore's now 80, which I don't love, but it could be that he'd an okay choice. Given the multiple elections he's ran, and the parties he's been connected to, though, I don't think the SPUSA will sense much in the way of loyalty from him.

Eric Chester, who was the SPUSA Vice Presidental nominee in 1996 (and campaigned for the presidential nomination in 2000, 2004, and 2008), might not be a terrible choice either, but he's also rather old.

Not sure what the SPUSA's plans are, but they should be interesting to watch unfold.

[MichaelM24]

I feel legit bad for the Constitution Party. I don't care for their policies, but Darrell Castle's campaign in 2016 did a lot of work, and I was impressed by the votes they got. Then four years later, they got stuck with Blankenship.

Another candidate is going for the SPUSA nomination - Jasmine Sherman, who is also running in the Green Party's primary. Her questionnaire leaves a lot to be desired, personally, but still, having six individuals interesting in being the party's nominee is encouraging in some ways.

[MichaelM24]

https://twitter.com/SPofUSA/status/1716089171519906297

Somewhat surprised, but hope that they get ballot access in as many states as possible.

Claudia De la Cruz and Stodden should organize a discussion, just so potential voters can get a lay of their differences.

[MichaelM24]

Any updates on the Greens? Is it still pretty much just Randy Toler?

Pretty much. Another guy jumped in according to FEC filings - a Jorge Zavala - but his website (https://votejz.org/) doesn't scream "serious contender" to me.

I don't know what the Green Party's going to do, but I really feel like some of the members made a big mistake throwing most of their eggs in the Cornel West basket.

[MichaelM24]

I voted for Jill Stein back in 2016. I'm open to voting for her again, but I have to admit that her backing of Cornel West's Green Party bid does strike me as sort of weak.

She should fly through the primary, though, with a ton of Green Party membership backing. I sort of wish that they'd not nominate the same candidate they've run twice before, but in this case, it may be an "in case of emergency" candidate.