Italy 2013: The official thread

[MaxQue]

As soon I hear about M5S, I can't help, but think about Tre Stelle cheese.

[MaxQue]

There is a trend of having politicians with names of foreign countries or languages?

[MaxQue]

There is a trend of having politicians with names of foreign countries or languages?

Santanchè? Spanish or Portuguese?

No, Alemanno is a local local in Alsace/Swiss/Germany. Called Alemannic in English.

[MaxQue]

There is a trend of having politicians with names of foreign countries or languages?

Santanchè? Spanish or Portuguese?

No, Alemanno is a local local in Alsace/Swiss/Germany. Called Alemannic in English.

Really? Interesting. I was going to say Santanchè still seemed Italian but figured it was the most obvious of the three names to possibly be not-Italian.

Well, no. Alemanno is an Italian word, but it means Alemannic in Italian.

[MaxQue]

Btw, Crocetta is a gay poet, and a former communist.
Also fought mafia as a mayor of Gela.

Talk about an interesting candidate...

Again?
Why that kind of candidates manage to win right strongholds?

[MaxQue]

Strange, in the list of the North American PD candidates, I spotted a Montreal borough councillor.
So, I suppose binationals can run?

[MaxQue]

For rememberance, those policies were taken after elections threads turned into partisan debates and ultra-hackness.

Anyways, any political debates belongs to International Discussion, not International Elections, which is for analysis and description of elections, in the commonly accepted view.

[MaxQue]

So every negative comment about Berlusconi is going to be removed, too?

I agree that this should be about discussing the news and dynamics of the race but let's not excuse one type of opinion and not another.

Sure, it should be balanced. But, I'm not the moderator and a forum isn't a democracy either.

[MaxQue]

This is Italy. Don't expect that to be a game changer.

Well, politically, Italy is awful since the Roman Empire (and let's not talk of the mafia). They should really stick to food and history books (and exporting smart kids to Paris suburbs).

I'm kidding, but the fact than DC was in power for decades and than Berlusconi always seems to find a way back is really depressing about that country, which deserves better than crooks.

[MaxQue]

Too young for Senate.

Wait, there's a separate voting age for senate?

Yes, 25, apparently.

[MaxQue]

Great... Another useless retarded "polemic"...

The real scandal is than the Right is unwilling to find a new leader.
I can't believe they don't have better than a corrupt and amoral Berlusconi.

[MaxQue]

Some would say that Italy has been in decline since the end of the Florentine Renaissance. Hard to imagine that the country that gave the world everyone from Machiavelli to Gramsci is now symbolized by political leaders like Andreotti the murderer and Berlusconi the child rapist.

Andreotti the murderer and Berlusconi the child rapist?  Are you smoking some pot?

Well, Andreotti was involved in some murder mafia and some of the bunga-bugna guests were allegedly minors.

[MaxQue]

Some would say that Italy has been in decline since the end of the Florentine Renaissance. Hard to imagine that the country that gave the world everyone from Machiavelli to Gramsci is now symbolized by political leaders like Andreotti the murderer and Berlusconi the child rapist.

Andreotti the murderer and Berlusconi the child rapist?  Are you smoking some pot?

Well, Andreotti was involved in some murder mafia and some of the bunga-bugna guests were allegedly minors.

Nobody was blamed of rape and Andreotti was guilty of contacts with mafia in '70s but cleared of all accusations about mafia murder (Percorelli's homicide)

True, but do you really want to argue they have good morals or are appropriate role models?

[MaxQue]

Serious flooding in Catania. Any Italians want to weigh in on the impact this could have? The city and surrounding areas went pretty strongly for the center-right in 2006 and 2008.

Hopefully, some mafiosi will drown.

[MaxQue]

Serious flooding in Catania. Any Italians want to weigh in on the impact this could have? The city and surrounding areas went pretty strongly for the center-right in 2006 and 2008.

Hopefully, some mafiosi will drown.

While I appreciate the fun potential of this post, I would gladly take info on the initial question by Phil, because it might be of a substantial importance. After all, this election is bound to be played at a 2-3% stake...

Well, Catania isn't that big, compared to the average population of Italy.

[MaxQue]

It's probably "giustizia parziale" if written in long, given his tendency to try vote laws granting himself immunity.

[MaxQue]

I know most of the names there, but who are Casini, Giannino and Montezemolo (that last one sounds like a wine)?

[MaxQue]

Ok, so I'm sure you flipped out when PD had your candidates as super heroes during the primary since this is super serious business.   And, of course, I guess I should have flipped out over every little joke during the U.S. Presidential election since, you know, I live here and not "just" interested in the country.

Exit polls right after voting ended still showed Prodi up by five so the black out rule isn't relevant. And according to one poster, the actual exits only showed Berlusconi only up two. I think it's fair to say that he usually under polls.

But if the usual voter which lies to pollsters is a protest voter which finally decide to vote for Berlusconi, what is saying us than they won't vote for Grillo, this time?

[MaxQue]

Well, about flooding, what there is to add?

Sure, flooded people don't got voting (Canada has two examples of that, in 1997 in the Red River Valley and in 2011 in the Richelieu Valley). But it shouldn't have an effect on the House except if it's very, very tight (less than 0.01%). For Senate, the effect could be bigger if Sicily is close, but I don't believe it will be.

And, sure, the left is the one favorised by that flooding (less right-wingers voting).

[MaxQue]

You're overestimating the intelligence of the average voter.

[MaxQue]

My 75% prediction is obviously wrong.

You think it will be higher or lower than that?

If the 10 PM update is down right points from 2008, I think his point is that it will obviously be lower.

But the drop happened so suddenly from 7 to 10. I wonder what that could mean...

A new results thread would be a fine idea, given how long this one has gotten already.

Yeah, you're right. I'll do one in a couple hours.

I think than Phil explanation is right. There was football tonight and some people listened to it instead of going voting.

[MaxQue]

Leaked exits apparently say Bersani by 5, Monti underperforming.

Underperforming when he was already expected to get 10-15%? Oh my.

Maybe the poster who predicted 9.7% wasn't that far of the real answer. Well, for sure, those exits will be off, since voting isn't finished yet.

[MaxQue]

For someone who's so neutral and detached, you're just so eager to point out anything that in any way would favor Berlusconi in some way.

Anyone who isn't constantly whining about Berlusconi is a lackey in the eyes of his haters. You guys are as deranged as the people you rail against.

Anyway, don't derail the thread because of what you perceive to be Pro Silvio commentary/news. As far as I'm concerned, anyone should be able to make a praising post without your side fussing. This is basically 59 pages of Berlusconi bashing and that's fine but the second someone is seen as a fan, everything has to stop so the haters can throw a fit. Either let all (respectful) comments stand and carry on with business as usual or stop posting any kind of promotion/attack on the political figures.

It's hilarious how when Italian politics are brought up you suddenly become a moderate hero who whines about the forum's lack of objectivity and anti-Berlusconi bias. As if Berlusconi haters and Berlusconi fanboys were just as bad and you, who (supposedly) rejects both, are the only smart, objective and balanced person. Except that's not how it works. There is one side (Berlusconi haters) which is morally and objectively right, and another (Berlusconi fans) which is a bunch of irredeemable morons. So being "neutral" means being biased.

That's right. Being anti-Berlusconi is being rational.

And backing Santorum (moral values!) and Berlusconi at the same time isn't rational.

[MaxQue]

Anyways, Berlusconi isn't leading by enough. It would be the same as currently, but with Berlusconi in the role of Bersani.

[MaxQue]

What was the deal with Tondo? Was he problematic or is this just such a swing region that it was going to be a squaker either way?

Also, did the 20% decrease in turnout hurt Tondo?

He did also a term between 2001 and 2003. They seem to switch all the time, last time than an incumbent was reelected was in 1988.