Spanish elections and politics

[jaichind]

^
No, it seems that in the mean time JxCat took back a seat from PSC (who is now at 17)

Also, an interesting side effect of this elections is that PP and CUP will have to share a joint parliamentary group. Neither has enough seats for an individual parliamentary group (they'd need 5), so they'll both go to the mixed group.

That basically means that they'll have to share their talking time, their seats in commitees, etc.

They can do this despite the fact that their platforms are polar opposites of each other ?

[Former President tack50]

^
No, it seems that in the mean time JxCat took back a seat from PSC (who is now at 17)

Also, an interesting side effect of this elections is that PP and CUP will have to share a joint parliamentary group. Neither has enough seats for an individual parliamentary group (they'd need 5), so they'll both go to the mixed group.

That basically means that they'll have to share their talking time, their seats in commitees, etc.

They can do this despite the fact that their platforms are polar opposites of each other ?

It's not a matter of whether they can or not. It's simply what the rules of the Catalan parliament say. For reference in the national congress you have both Bildu (Basque secessionists) as well as UPN (anti Basque Navarra party, contests elections with PP) in the mixed group, who are also polar opposites.

[Former President tack50]

Also here's a map by municipality

http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/elecciones/20171221/433800521201/mapa-resultados-elecciones-catalanas-21d.html

JxCat wins most of the interior, Cs wins the coastal towns and the Barcelona and Tarragona metro areas. ERC wins mostly the south. PSC wins 2 municipalities in Aran with really tiny populations (15 and 10 voters for PSC; 60 and 43 voters respectively)

[jaichind]

Pretty amazing that after all that the secessionists only lost 2 seats from 2015.  I guess it is back to stalemate.  Can Puigdemont run for and be appointed  President remotely ?

[Former President tack50]

Pretty amazing that after all that the secessionists only lost 2 seats from 2015.  I guess it is back to stalemate.  Can Puigdemont run for and be appointed  President remotely ?

No idea, but I don't think so. Then again during the campaign he did promise that if he was reelected he would return to Catalonia and become president again.

Come to think about it, that's actually a good plot for a movie. Puigdemont tries to sneak into the Catalan parliament and not be noticed by the Spanish police. If Puigdemont somehow didn't get arrested on his way to Spain (I guess he could cross the border by car inside the trunk or something, as though he was being smuggled) and get into parliament it would be an incredibly powerful move of defiance.

And the images of the Guardia Civil entering a parliament would probably be extemely reminiscent of the 1981 coup (performed by Guardia Civil Coronel Antonio Tejero), which would add even more fuel to the fire.

[jaichind]

Pretty amazing that after all that the secessionists only lost 2 seats from 2015.  I guess it is back to stalemate.  Can Puigdemont run for and be appointed  President remotely ?

No idea, but I don't think so. Then again during the campaign he did promise that if he was reelected he would return to Catalonia and become president again.

Come to think about it, that's actually a good plot for a movie. Puigdemont tries to sneak into the Catalan parliament and not be noticed by the Spanish police. If Puigdemont somehow didn't get arrested on his way to Spain (I guess he could cross the border by car inside the trunk or something, as though he was being smuggled) and get into parliament it would be an incredibly powerful move of defiance.

And the images of the Guardia Civil entering a parliament would probably be extemely reminiscent of the 1981 coup (performed by Guardia Civil Coronel Antonio Tejero), which would add even more fuel to the fire.

This used to happen in India all the time.  The idea is that a MP or MLA is immune from prosecution.  So criminals/bandits would run for MLA and MP seats and many times would win.  Then on the day they will be sworn in the police know they will need to show up at the Legislative assembly and wait outside to arrest them.  The MP or MLA elect would need to sneak past the police, get sworn in, and then the police can no longer arrest them. 

[petr sokol]

Why is ERC party of the south and JxCat of the north?

Also here's a map by municipality



JxCat wins most of the interior, Cs wins the coastal towns and the Barcelona and Tarragona metro areas. ERC wins mostly the south. PSC wins 2 municipalities in Aran with really tiny populations (15 and 10 voters for PSC; 60 and 43 voters respectively)

[Zinneke]

PP have lost a seat to Cs.

[Former President tack50]

Why is ERC party of the south and JxCat of the north?

Also here's a map by municipality



JxCat wins most of the interior, Cs wins the coastal towns and the Barcelona and Tarragona metro areas. ERC wins mostly the south. PSC wins 2 municipalities in Aran with really tiny populations (15 and 10 voters for PSC; 60 and 43 voters respectively)

No idea. My guess is that Tarragona province is more left wing than Lleida/Girona, but also that the southern part is secessionist. But looking at other results (like the 2016 general election) it seems like that area, while it voted for ERC, it didn't do so overwhelmingly for the most part.

Another idea is that Puigdemont is from Girona province, so he did get a noticable "home state" effect there. But that doesn't explain why almost all of rural inland Catalonia voted for him.

[Mike88]

I don't know how this will end, seriously.  

52.0% Anti-Independence (50.5 in 2015)
47.5% Pró Independence (47.8 )

Tack, in TVE i heard some guy saying that Catalonia doesn't have an electoral law. Is that true?

[jaichind]

I don't know how this will end, seriously.  

52.0% Anti-Independence (50.5 in 2015)
47.5% Pró Independence (47.8 )

Tack, in TVE i heard some guy saying that Catalonia doesn't have an electoral law. Is that true?

Are CeC really anti-independence?  Given a choice of joining forces with C PP or independence it might be a tossup I would think.

[Mike88]

I don't know how this will end, seriously.  

52.0% Anti-Independence (50.5 in 2015)
47.5% Pró Independence (47.8 )

Tack, in TVE i heard some guy saying that Catalonia doesn't have an electoral law. Is that true?

Are CeC really anti-independence?  Given a choice of joining forces with C PP or independence it might be a tossup I would think.

From what i've heard, CeC, or Podemos, are neither pro or anti independence. They also got punished for their lack of position.

[Former President tack50]

I don't know how this will end, seriously.  

52.0% Anti-Independence (50.5 in 2015)
47.5% Pró Independence (47.8 )

Tack, in TVE i heard some guy saying that Catalonia doesn't have an electoral law. Is that true?

Technically yes, Catalonia uses the same law Spain uses for general elections except for the seat distribution (which comes from a decree from Josep Tarradellas intended for the first regional elections in 1980).

However it's of little relevance to be honest. There are some other communities with systems that are extremely similar. Castille-Leon for example does technically have its own election law, but it's basically the same as if it didn't have it as it has the same characteristics as the general election/Catalonia law (3% theshold, province sized constituencies)

Iirc they'd need 2/3 for a new one to be drafted but no one has been able to do get the required majority.

[Mike88]

I don't know how this will end, seriously.  

52.0% Anti-Independence (50.5 in 2015)
47.5% Pró Independence (47.8 )

Tack, in TVE i heard some guy saying that Catalonia doesn't have an electoral law. Is that true?

Technically yes, Catalonia uses the same law Spain uses for general elections except for the seat distribution (which comes from a decree from Josep Tarradellas intended for the first regional elections in 1980).

However it's of little relevance to be honest. There are some other communities with systems that are extremely similar. Castille-Leon for example does technically have its own election law, but it's basically the same as if it didn't have it as it has the same characteristics as the general election/Catalonia law (3% theshold, province sized constituencies)

Iirc they'd need 2/3 for a new one to be drafted but no one has been able to do get the required majority.

Of course. And a change in the law, like Arrimadas asked in her speech, is impossible because ERC and JxCat will not change a system that clearly benefits them.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

[Antonio the Sixth]

Ugh, great, just great.

[parochial boy]

Haha, this changes everything! /s

[DavidB.]

My Elteuvot result:

CeC-Podemos: 63%
CUP: 63%
ERC: 62%
JxCat: 55%
PSC: 55%
Cs: 51%
PP: 46%

Would probably have voted for CeC-Podemos.

[swl]

8 of the newly elected MPs are in jail or will be jailed if they come back to Spain (all independentists). I am not sure if they can plan any role in the Parliament without being physically present.

[jaichind]

Puigdemont: “I’m willing to meet with Rajoy in Brussels or somewhere else in the European Union other than Spain, because we have to consider the new political stage that starts in Catalonia, Spain and Europe."

[swl]

Results by city:
http://www.elmundo.es/grafico/cataluna/2017/12/21/5a3bbcd7468aeb2b4a8b45af.html

You can select "bloques" or "partidos" to see which bloc (independentist vs constitutionalist) or which party arrived first in each city

[Mike88]

Reactions after the results:

Rajoy refuses to call early general elections and is willing to talk with the future Catalan government within the law. At the same time, Mr Rajoy's chief of staff, Jorge Moragas, resigned because of the results in Catalonia.

Rajoy also refused the proposed talks with Puigdemont, and will talk with the leader of the most voted party, Inés Arrimadas.

From Portugal, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Augusto Santos Silva, calls for a responsible and democratic dialogue that helps to form a stable government in Catalonia, that preserves Spain's sovereignty and that respects the rights and freedoms of the citizens.

[Velasco]

Reactions after the results:

At the same time, Mr Rajoy's chief of staff, Jorge Moragas, resigned because of the results in Catalonia.

Apparently Jorge Moragas agreed with Rajoy to resign his post after the Catalan elections, in order to become the next Ambassador to the United Nations. According to the news Moragas decoupled his decision (prior to elections) to the result.

Puigdemont told something interesting to his JxCat colleagues. The deposed president spoke in somewhat rude language, but roughly translated his sentence means "Spain has a terrible mess"

http://www.elperiodico.com/es/politica/20171222/puigdemont-espana-tiene-pollo-cojones-6512922

[Mike88]

Reactions after the results:

At the same time, Mr Rajoy's chief of staff, Jorge Moragas, resigned because of the results in Catalonia.

Apparently Jorge Moragas agreed with Rajoy to resign his post after the Catalan elections, in order to become the next Ambassador to the United Nations. According to the news Moragas decoupled his decision (prior to elections) to the result.

Puigdemont told something interesting to his JxCat colleagues. The deposed president spoke in somewhat rude language, but roughly translated his sentence means "Spain has a terrible mess"

http://www.elperiodico.com/es/politica/20171222/puigdemont-espana-tiene-pollo-cojones-6512922

Ahh. Wasn't aware that he was going to the UN. I don't get why Puigdemont said that. Yes, Spain may be a mess, but has he looked himself in the mirror? God!

[jaichind]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/spanish-court-extradition-121-taiwanese-china-51815552

Spanish court allows extradition of 121 Taiwanese to China

Funny news since it relates to my home Chinese Province of Taiwan.  Spainish courts decided to extradite 121 ROC nationals to the PRC regime.  The defendants claimed that "Taiwan is not a part of China" but the Spanish courts ruled  :

"The international community, except for those countries with which (Taiwan) has diplomatic relations, consider Taiwan to be part of China and take the view that its independence cannot be achieved unilaterally"

Pretty funny in light of the  Catalonia crisis. 

I guess in the Taiwan Province context I am the equivalent of Cs (and most even more extreme then that as I would support PRC military action to stop Taiwan Independence.)