Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/1377748114916917252
 

Pelosi just said yesterday that she hopes to do it, so unless Biden's threatening to veto (which is, y'know, lol), this doesn't actually stop Congress from just adding the proposal in on their own.

That requires it to get through senate reconciliation untouched. And I'd be pretty surprised if Manchin or whatever didn't kill it there.

Manchin won’t kill it lol

Why on earth wouldn't Manchin touch SALT? The GOP could bring up a floor amendment to just SALT and he could vote yes. He forced changes to the stimulus bill, after all.

“Changes”

Manchin isn’t going to force the removal of something the Democratic congressional leadership cares about, he’s basically our Susan Collins.

Yeah but now he has the same position as Biden.

especially when the bill probably can’t pass the House without it.

Earmarks, baby.

Pelosi supports SALT relief; why would she use earmarks to kill it?  And why would Biden pick this as a hill to die on, regardless of his views on the issues?  Why would it matter to him that much?

"Relief" lmao. Because Biden can probably get everything he wants here. No adjustments to SALT and more infrastructure to buy off the suburbanites. Plus, I really don't see this playing well with most senators. Other than Manchin, I can absolutely see someone like Sanders throwing a fit over this with the go-ahead from Biden.

Neither Bernie nor Manchin nor Biden are gonna kill the bill over this.

Passing a floor amendment after the house sends the bill over != killing the bill.

It can’t pass the House w/o SALT relief

That might not be true if Democratic leadership was a little more willing to play hardball. If they can get everyone but Collin Peterson on board for impeachment, they can manage this. There are better uses of their political capital, of course, but there are also worse uses, and they actively pursue these from time to time.

This is a reliable, progressive revenue generator that is already in place and not beset by loopholes. Good federal governance is rare enough, so where it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Playing hardball isn’t the issue; the House Democratic leadership strongly supports SALT relief.

That is an example of misuse of political capital (which undermines their electability claims).

The Biden administration does not support it, and so should push them. The base will polarise more easily around the president's position than the Speaker's.

There is no reason for Biden to choose SALT relief as a hill to die on when it’s clear the issue is a pretty low priority for him and a high priority for the Democratic congressional leadership as well as various lower-profile congress-critters whose votes we need.  You want the bill to pass the House?  Well, for better or worse, one of the prices for that is including SALT relief.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/1377748114916917252
 

Pelosi just said yesterday that she hopes to do it, so unless Biden's threatening to veto (which is, y'know, lol), this doesn't actually stop Congress from just adding the proposal in on their own.

That requires it to get through senate reconciliation untouched. And I'd be pretty surprised if Manchin or whatever didn't kill it there.

Manchin won’t kill it lol

Why on earth wouldn't Manchin touch SALT? The GOP could bring up a floor amendment to just SALT and he could vote yes. He forced changes to the stimulus bill, after all.

“Changes”

Manchin isn’t going to force the removal of something the Democratic congressional leadership cares about, he’s basically our Susan Collins.

Yeah but now he has the same position as Biden.

especially when the bill probably can’t pass the House without it.

Earmarks, baby.

Pelosi supports SALT relief; why would she use earmarks to kill it?  And why would Biden pick this as a hill to die on, regardless of his views on the issues?  Why would it matter to him that much?

"Relief" lmao. Because Biden can probably get everything he wants here. No adjustments to SALT and more infrastructure to buy off the suburbanites. Plus, I really don't see this playing well with most senators. Other than Manchin, I can absolutely see someone like Sanders throwing a fit over this with the go-ahead from Biden.

Neither Bernie nor Manchin nor Biden are gonna kill the bill over this.

Passing a floor amendment after the house sends the bill over != killing the bill.

It can’t pass the House w/o SALT relief

That might not be true if Democratic leadership was a little more willing to play hardball. If they can get everyone but Collin Peterson on board for impeachment, they can manage this. There are better uses of their political capital, of course, but there are also worse uses, and they actively pursue these from time to time.

This is a reliable, progressive revenue generator that is already in place and not beset by loopholes. Good federal governance is rare enough, so where it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Playing hardball isn’t the issue; the House Democratic leadership strongly supports SALT relief.

That is an example of misuse of political capital (which undermines their electability claims).

The Biden administration does not support it, and so should push them. The base will polarise more easily around the president's position than the Speaker's.

There is no reason for Biden to choose SALT relief as a hill to die on when it’s clear the issue is a pretty low priority for him and a high priority for the Democratic congressional leadership as well as various lower-profile congress-critters whose votes we need.  You want the bill to pass the House?  Well, for better or worse, one of the prices for that is including SALT relief.

I’m not saying it’s the best thing to pick a fight over, but it’s clearly better than some of the things the Biden admin has fought over.

If they can call the failure to nominate Neera Tanden a structurally racist injustice, they can make a bit more noise about an attempt to scrap a perfectly decent means of redistribution.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/1377748114916917252
 

Pelosi just said yesterday that she hopes to do it, so unless Biden's threatening to veto (which is, y'know, lol), this doesn't actually stop Congress from just adding the proposal in on their own.

That requires it to get through senate reconciliation untouched. And I'd be pretty surprised if Manchin or whatever didn't kill it there.

Manchin won’t kill it lol

Why on earth wouldn't Manchin touch SALT? The GOP could bring up a floor amendment to just SALT and he could vote yes. He forced changes to the stimulus bill, after all.

“Changes”

Manchin isn’t going to force the removal of something the Democratic congressional leadership cares about, he’s basically our Susan Collins.

Yeah but now he has the same position as Biden.

especially when the bill probably can’t pass the House without it.

Earmarks, baby.

Pelosi supports SALT relief; why would she use earmarks to kill it?  And why would Biden pick this as a hill to die on, regardless of his views on the issues?  Why would it matter to him that much?

"Relief" lmao. Because Biden can probably get everything he wants here. No adjustments to SALT and more infrastructure to buy off the suburbanites. Plus, I really don't see this playing well with most senators. Other than Manchin, I can absolutely see someone like Sanders throwing a fit over this with the go-ahead from Biden.

Neither Bernie nor Manchin nor Biden are gonna kill the bill over this.

Passing a floor amendment after the house sends the bill over != killing the bill.

It can’t pass the House w/o SALT relief

That might not be true if Democratic leadership was a little more willing to play hardball. If they can get everyone but Collin Peterson on board for impeachment, they can manage this. There are better uses of their political capital, of course, but there are also worse uses, and they actively pursue these from time to time.

This is a reliable, progressive revenue generator that is already in place and not beset by loopholes. Good federal governance is rare enough, so where it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Playing hardball isn’t the issue; the House Democratic leadership strongly supports SALT relief.

That is an example of misuse of political capital (which undermines their electability claims).

The Biden administration does not support it, and so should push them. The base will polarise more easily around the president's position than the Speaker's.

There is no reason for Biden to choose SALT relief as a hill to die on when it’s clear the issue is a pretty low priority for him and a high priority for the Democratic congressional leadership as well as various lower-profile congress-critters whose votes we need.  You want the bill to pass the House?  Well, for better or worse, one of the prices for that is including SALT relief.

I’m not saying it’s the best thing to pick a fight over, but it’s clearly better than some of the things the Biden admin has fought over.

If they can call the failure to nominate Neera Tanden a structurally racist injustice, they can make a bit more noise about an attempt to scrap a perfectly decent means of redistribution.

And it’d be just that: noise

[Motorcity]

So, let me see if I understand how things stand

The Democrats are currently preparing a reconciliation bill for the 2022 FY

They plan to spend 4 trillion dollars

They have split the bill into two pieces. The 2 trillion that covers healthcare and education will be part of the 2022 reconciliation bill this Summer.

The infrastructure and tax bill is 2 trillion. Biden hopes republicans will vote for it as a separate bill, clearing 60 votes. If not, they’ll combine this bill with the reconciliation bill for a massive 4 trillion reconciliation bill.

Is that correct?

Also, any chance a public option will be in the FY 2022 bill? Or even a minimum wage increase

[Badger]

Fwiw, I think I represent a lot of progressives- - at least those who own represent an upper-middle-class District in Congress - - then I am mixed to tepid about salt really. But if accepting it is a price to get this bill through, then I am all for it.

[ꙮ]

You guys realize you don’t have to include the entire quote tree to make your response, right?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Imagine peoply quoting each other, just make you reply without quoting someone we all are gonna disagree

We will have our user Predictions up soon


But, Biden spending 3T on infrastructure and we are in Covid doesn't make much sense to me

There is a need for more UBI benefits and moire Stimulus money 1.9 T wasn't enough

Most people in poverty don't even care about a 3T infrastructure plan, they face Homelessness or Evictions everyday

[Frodo]

I wish expansion of Social Security benefits had been included, given there is already legislation to give Medicare negotiation authority on prescription drugs.  Medicare and Social Security changes together in the same overarching infrastructure bill should pass muster with the Byrd Rule:

A provision is deemed extraneous if one or more of these six statements applies:

1. It does not produce a change in outlays or revenues or a change in the terms and conditions under which outlays are made or revenues are collected.

2. It produces an outlay increase or revenue decrease when the instructed committee is not in compliance with its instructions.

3. It is outside the jurisdiction of the committee that submitted the title or provision for inclusion in the reconciliation measure.

4. It produces a change in outlays or revenues that is merely incidental to the nonbudgetary components of the provision.

5. It would increase the deficit for a fiscal year beyond the “budget window” covered by the reconciliation measure.

6. It recommends changes in Social Security (referring to the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance, or OASDI, program, and not Medicare or any additional programs under this act).

[brucejoel99]

So, let me see if I understand how things stand

The Democrats are currently preparing a reconciliation bill for the 2022 FY

They plan to spend 4 trillion dollars

They have split the bill into two pieces. The 2 trillion that covers healthcare and education will be part of the 2022 reconciliation bill this Summer.

The infrastructure and tax bill is 2 trillion. Biden hopes republicans will vote for it as a separate bill, clearing 60 votes. If not, they’ll combine this bill with the reconciliation bill for a massive 4 trillion reconciliation bill.

Is that correct?

Not entirely: Schumer is currently attempting to invoke a loophole deriving from Sect. 304 of the Budget Act which - if approved - would basically allow for a 2nd FY 2021 reconciliation bill (if approved, it'd also theoretically allow for a 3rd FY 2021 bill, & a 4th one, & a 5th, & so on & so forth, but realistically speaking, there's only enough time for a 2nd one before they have to use a FY 2022 bill). If the Parliamentarian signs off on this procedure, the $2T+ American Jobs Plan - which is the infrastructure plan that Biden just announced in Pittsburgh this week - would comprise the 2nd FY 2021 reconciliation bill to be passed in ~Jul. while the follow-up $2T+ American Families Plan would comprise the 1st FY 2022 reconciliation bill to be passed in ~Sept. If the Parliamentarian gives a thumbs-down on this, then both of these plans - the AJP & the AFP - would be combined into a mega $4T+ Build Back Better plan that comprises the FY 2022 reconciliation bill, to be passed in ~Sept.

Also, any chance a public option will be in the FY 2022 bill? Or even a minimum wage increase

Not really & no, respectively: it still looks like the public option is being saved for a post-Build Back Better reconciliation bill, but whether it's a 2nd/3rd FY 2022 bill or the sole FY 2023 bill remains to be seen, pending the Parliamentarian's ruling, & as for the minimum-wage, the Parliamentarian already ruled previously - while the ARP was being moved through Congress - that a minimum-wage increase isn't eligible for inclusion within a reconciliation package.

[politics_king]

https://news.yahoo.com/manchin-comes-against-biden-infrastructure-162050915.html

Senator Joe Manchin (D., W.Va.) said he would oppose raising the corporate tax rate to 28 percent, a key component of the Biden administration’s infrastructure bill, in a radio interview with West Virginia’s Metro News.

“As the bill exists today, it needs to be changed,” Manchin told host Hoppy Kercheval. The senator added that he could support raising the corporate tax rate to 25 percent, but not to 28 percent as envisioned in the bill, because it would hurt the country’s market competitiveness.

“It’s more than just me, Hoppy,” Manchin said. “There’s six or seven other Democrats who feel very strongly about this. We have to be competitive, and we’re not going to throw caution to the wind.”

Manchin emphasized that the bill would not move forward without his support. With 50 Senate seats and the vice presidency, Democrats need the support of all their senators in order to pass legislation.

“If I don’t vote to get on it, it’s not going anywhere,” Manchin said.

I'm really getting sick and tired of this guy.

[KaiserDave]

Highly misleading title, also I laugh at anyone who actually thinks Manchin will vote against this when all is said and done

[It's Perro Sanxe wot won it]

I hear someone wants pork.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I hear someone wants pork.

Downtown Morgantown after this passes:

[AGA]

Based. Corp tax shouldn't be raised.

[Oregon Eagle Politics]

Maybe we could do a compromise like 35% for big corporations and 21% for small businesses.

[Ferguson97]

[YE]

Why are Democrats taking positions to the right of Obama?

[Badger]

Why are Democrats taking positions to the right of Obama?

Because some Democrats, specifically like Joe manchin, are distinctly to the right of Obama.

[YE]

Why are Democrats taking positions to the right of Obama?

Because some Democrats, specifically like Joe manchin, are distinctly to the right of Obama.

It’s not just Manchin apparently. It’s six or seven other losers according to the article posted who simply want less tax revenue.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Yep, you got me this time, Joe.  I totally believe the guy with a history of performative faux-conservativism before towing the party line and who called for a $4 trillion bill to be paid for with tax increases on the wealthy and an increase in the corporate tax rate is gonna kill the bill b/c it raises the corporate tax rate a couple points too

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

— SIREN … CBS’ @stevenportnoy: “In a radio interview with @HoppyKercheval, Sen. Manchin signals there are circumstances under which he won’t vote to get onto the infrastructure bill. ‘As the bill exists today, it needs to be changed,’ Manchin says. … Manchin says more revenue needs to be collected from high income earners, but he says the corporate tax rate should be at 25%. He says he would not support raising the corp tax to 28%.”

I hope, he won't cave in easily.

28% to 25% would cost ~$30B a year. Both small and large companies pay it.
Repeal of the SALT cap would cost ~$80B a year. 99% of the Rich pay it.

I think, that according to the quote above Manchin +6 want a higher & more progressive income tax, instead of rising corp tax (~flat one).

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

the reason for 28% (and previously 21% instead of 20%) is that it is easier for companies to revalue their tax credits. there could be a case for 24% but 8/7 isn't a pretty fraction either. 4/3 is what the business world almost prefers.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Everyone thinks that DeSantis is so great along with Trump they want to keep corporate taxes at 20 or 18 as low possible to get people off of entitlemenrs

Which is a good thing, as long as we keep going thing Unemployed people 300 extra money that no one else gets, there is gonna be scam

[brucejoel99]

The Manchin Cycle proceeds on schedule...

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The wealth tax will comeback if D's net seats in Congress, they don't have the votes now.

Corporate taxes will be increased by next yr at 25 percent not 28