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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #9700 on: April 11, 2022, 04:51:23 PM »

andjey how well set up do you think Ukraine is for this battle for Donbas? A lot of the talk has mainly focusing on Russia and how desperate they are to win it but no real info on how well entrenched you guys are for the battle and if there are backup plans to prevent any big encirclement’s. Anything from the ground you have heard?

With all due respect, but I will not write here about the capabilities of the Ukrainian army and its forces in the Donbas. Let it be a surprise for you. I hope you understand me correctly. I will say only one thing: the chances of Ukrainians are quite high (I would say about 55-60%), but we still need Western weapons, especially planes and tanks. We need a lot of it and we need it now.
Oh I get it was just curious is all
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Storr
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« Reply #9701 on: April 11, 2022, 04:59:01 PM »
« Edited: April 11, 2022, 05:21:58 PM by Storr »

Lavrovsplaining:



Honestly, this war could be the "last gasp" of Russia's superpower ambitions. Russian TV has been saying as much, even discussing that it would be "the end" of Russia if the country isn't victorious in Ukraine. In terms of the end of Russia as a global power, I agree.
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« Reply #9702 on: April 11, 2022, 05:07:22 PM »

I will also say an unpopular opinion, but I am sure of it: by starting the war against Ukraine, Russia has doomed itself to disintegration. The disintegration of Russia is now inevitable, regardless of the outcome of the war here. In 5-10 years, there will be many smaller states on the map instead of Russia, so we need to prepare for this.

It's great to see you alive and well!

I've had a thought about Russia's future, and want to hear what you think:

Suppose say that Ukraine scores a decisive victory on the battlefield: Russians are routed in the Donbass and Kherson, and Putin has no choice other than to retreat to pre-2014 borders (he doesn't use nukes because NATO actually warned him they would obliterate what remains of his troops). Russia is unable to prevent Ukraine from quickly joining the EU or NATO. Ukraine becomes a nuclear latent power akin to Japan.

Because this betrayal is so blatant to those Russians who had been waving Z flags, Putin abruptly pivots on his propaganda apparatus. Suddenly, mysterious documents appearing on state TV claim that NATO had been planning to use Ukraine as a base to invade Russia. They then claim that Russia conducted a pre-emptive strike to completely degrade Ukraine and NATO's ability to invade Russia; and that while Russia lost thousands of troops, it was a small price to pay to protect the Russian homeland. The FSB are ordered to arrest anyone who merely posts the word "betrayal" on VKontakte.

Putin also decides to massively slash the size and scope of the Russian military, both because he can't afford to maintain a large army, and to further reduce the risk of a coup. The Russian military is reduced to just three functions: 1) parades in Red Square 2) a few elite Spetsnaz HQ'd far from Moscow 3) a few hundred actually useable nukes. He also massively ramps up the FSB, turning Russia into a totalitarian police state. The west relaxes a few sanctions, but Russia's economy remains a complete basketcase.

This Russia is little more than a giant North Korea; but Putin both is too afraid of, and can't afford to, start any more wars. Western leaders continue to call Putin a war criminal who should be sent to The Hague, but quietly prefer him to remain in the Kremlin.

My question to you is, would you, as a Ukrainian citizen, accept that scenario? How would Ukrainian society react to that development? And, how plausible do you think that is?
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andjey
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« Reply #9703 on: April 11, 2022, 05:18:17 PM »

I will also say an unpopular opinion, but I am sure of it: by starting the war against Ukraine, Russia has doomed itself to disintegration. The disintegration of Russia is now inevitable, regardless of the outcome of the war here. In 5-10 years, there will be many smaller states on the map instead of Russia, so we need to prepare for this.

It's great to see you alive and well!

I've had a thought about Russia's future, and want to hear what you think:

Suppose say that Ukraine scores a decisive victory on the battlefield: Russians are routed in the Donbass and Kherson, and Putin has no choice other than to retreat to pre-2014 borders (he doesn't use nukes because NATO actually warned him they would obliterate what remains of his troops). Russia is unable to prevent Ukraine from quickly joining the EU or NATO. Ukraine becomes a nuclear latent power akin to Japan.

Because this betrayal is so blatant to those Russians who had been waving Z flags, Putin abruptly pivots on his propaganda apparatus. Suddenly, mysterious documents appearing on state TV claim that NATO had been planning to use Ukraine as a base to invade Russia. They then claim that Russia conducted a pre-emptive strike to completely degrade Ukraine and NATO's ability to invade Russia; and that while Russia lost thousands of troops, it was a small price to pay to protect the Russian homeland. The FSB are ordered to arrest anyone who merely posts the word "betrayal" on VKontakte.

Putin also decides to massively slash the size and scope of the Russian military, both because he can't afford to maintain a large army, and to further reduce the risk of a coup. The Russian military is reduced to just three functions: 1) parades in Red Square 2) a few elite Spetsnaz HQ'd far from Moscow 3) a few hundred actually useable nukes. He also massively ramps up the FSB, turning Russia into a totalitarian police state. The west relaxes a few sanctions, but Russia's economy remains a complete basketcase.

This Russia is little more than a giant North Korea; but Putin both is too afraid of, and can't afford to, start any more wars. Western leaders continue to call Putin a war criminal who should be sent to The Hague, but quietly prefer him to remain in the Kremlin.

My question to you is, would you, as a Ukrainian citizen, accept that scenario? How would Ukrainian society react to that development? And, how plausible do you think that is?

I will answer briefly: I am not against such a scenario (objectively, Ukraine cannot return Crimea by military means; diplomatically - maybe after a certain period of time. The situation with the occupied parts of Donbas is the same. Therefore, I would be completely satisfied with your scenario. I have written here before, Russia has passed its own sentence - the disintegration into smaller states. Therefore, sooner or later, Crimea and Donbas will still return to Ukraine). I think Ukrainian society is about the same as I am.

As for the third question, I don't think this scenario is quite likely, because I'm sure that if Russia loses on the battlefield, putin will use nuclear weapons. Moreover, some Russian officials have already publicly stated the possibility of its use.
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« Reply #9704 on: April 11, 2022, 05:24:12 PM »

I will also say an unpopular opinion, but I am sure of it: by starting the war against Ukraine, Russia has doomed itself to disintegration. The disintegration of Russia is now inevitable, regardless of the outcome of the war here. In 5-10 years, there will be many smaller states on the map instead of Russia, so we need to prepare for this.

It's great to see you alive and well!

I've had a thought about Russia's future, and want to hear what you think:

Suppose say that Ukraine scores a decisive victory on the battlefield: Russians are routed in the Donbass and Kherson, and Putin has no choice other than to retreat to pre-2014 borders (he doesn't use nukes because NATO actually warned him they would obliterate what remains of his troops). Russia is unable to prevent Ukraine from quickly joining the EU or NATO. Ukraine becomes a nuclear latent power akin to Japan.

Because this betrayal is so blatant to those Russians who had been waving Z flags, Putin abruptly pivots on his propaganda apparatus. Suddenly, mysterious documents appearing on state TV claim that NATO had been planning to use Ukraine as a base to invade Russia. They then claim that Russia conducted a pre-emptive strike to completely degrade Ukraine and NATO's ability to invade Russia; and that while Russia lost thousands of troops, it was a small price to pay to protect the Russian homeland. The FSB are ordered to arrest anyone who merely posts the word "betrayal" on VKontakte.

Putin also decides to massively slash the size and scope of the Russian military, both because he can't afford to maintain a large army, and to further reduce the risk of a coup. The Russian military is reduced to just three functions: 1) parades in Red Square 2) a few elite Spetsnaz HQ'd far from Moscow 3) a few hundred actually useable nukes. He also massively ramps up the FSB, turning Russia into a totalitarian police state. The west relaxes a few sanctions, but Russia's economy remains a complete basketcase.

This Russia is little more than a giant North Korea; but Putin both is too afraid of, and can't afford to, start any more wars. Western leaders continue to call Putin a war criminal who should be sent to The Hague, but quietly prefer him to remain in the Kremlin.

My question to you is, would you, as a Ukrainian citizen, accept that scenario? How would Ukrainian society react to that development? And, how plausible do you think that is?

I will answer briefly: I am not against such a scenario (objectively, Ukraine cannot return Crimea by military means; diplomatically - maybe after a certain period of time. The situation with the occupied parts of Donbas is the same. Therefore, I would be completely satisfied with your scenario. I have written here before, Russia has passed its own sentence - the disintegration into smaller states. Therefore, sooner or later, Crimea and Donbas will still return to Ukraine). I think Ukrainian society is about the same as I am.

As for the third question, I don't think this scenario is quite likely, because I'm sure that if Russia loses on the battlefield, putin will use nuclear weapons. Moreover, some Russian officials have already publicly stated the possibility of its use.


Hopefully a military loss leads to Putin being removed from power and thrown in Black Dolphin Prison for all the horrible crimes he has committed before he has a chance to do that
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #9705 on: April 11, 2022, 05:25:13 PM »
« Edited: April 11, 2022, 05:44:30 PM by DINGO Joe »

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/08/ukraines-iron-general-zaluzhnyy-00023901
Article about Ukraine's general.

I think lost behind Russian incompetence is Ukraine competence .

From what I can glean (being as knowledgeable about these things as everyone else here, which is basically zero), there are three things going on:

1) Poor Russian planning and outdated military strategy=huge incompetence and reliance on savagery.

2) Ukrainian forces that are highly skilled with the weapons they've been using over the last 8 years (plus fancier versions that have reached them in the battlefield, like Javelins, etc...)  Really, it seems like a high tech guerilla warfare. 

3) extremely accurate intelligence (mainly via NATO) and also thanks to Russian incompetence and outdated communications equipment.  As I mentioned earlier in thread, what happened at Hostemel in the North against the best Russian troops is extremely notable as the Ukrainians knew exactly what was coming and were able to totally bring it to a standstill until the Russians had to exit.
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Storr
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« Reply #9706 on: April 11, 2022, 06:12:53 PM »

On the lighter side of things:

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« Reply #9707 on: April 11, 2022, 06:55:04 PM »

Hope this isn’t a dumb question but is Kyiv safe now? So regime change no longer a goal of the Russians? 
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« Reply #9708 on: April 11, 2022, 07:07:03 PM »

New updated article from the New York Times regarding the Russian War Crimes committed at Bucha which includes detailed info from reports and photographers for the Times.

Not a long article, but the base map bearing witness and documenting the locations of various atrocities alone is worth the ticket for those who have limited access.

Doubtless there will be more details coming available in the next days regarding some of these additional reports for individual war crimes not previously reported.

Quote
A mother killed by a sniper while walking with her family to fetch a thermos of tea. A woman held as a sex slave, naked except for a fur coat and locked in a potato cellar before being executed. Two sisters dead in their home, their bodies left slumped on the floor for weeks.


Quote
Reporters and photographers for The New York Times spent more than a week with city officials, coroners and scores of witnesses in Bucha, uncovering new details of execution-style atrocities against civilians. The Times documented the bodies of almost three dozen people where they were killed — in their homes, in the woods, set on fire in a vacant parking lot — and learned the story behind many of their deaths. The Times also witnessed more than 100 body bags at a communal grave and the city’s cemetery.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/11/world/ukraine-russia-war-news/the-new-york-times-documents-a-month-of-terror-in-bucha
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« Reply #9709 on: April 11, 2022, 07:16:23 PM »

Hope this isn’t a dumb question but is Kyiv safe now? So regime change no longer a goal of the Russians? 

Probably bit maybe not. I think their goal is to start over with the border with Ukraine and push west, killing everyone in their path.
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #9710 on: April 11, 2022, 08:00:38 PM »

Russian spy center in Warsaw has now been finally been "repo'd man'd" by Polish authorities.

Link to Cult Classic below.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087995/

Mayor of Warsaw in the House.... no signs of Trump yet for a new Hotel.



Russians left a few gifts behind that they weren't able to cart home...



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Badger
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« Reply #9711 on: April 11, 2022, 08:04:11 PM »

I believe that there's a legitimate debate to be had over whether it's preferable to be ruled by Putin or to see your country devolve into a European Syria, and the keyboard insurgents who want to see years of violent resistance have no right to judge the Ukrainian people for which option they choose.

First of all, I want you to know that I consider you a great poster, and then I want to explain the situation a bit, completely refuting your opinion.

So, now in Ukrainian society there is no question of living under the regime of the Kremlin marasmic or living in "European Syria". This question is not available for simple reasons, namely because one of these options is simply impossible.

Following the Kremlin's rhetoric, one can trace the change and aggravation in it. Now "denazification" is equated with de-Ukrainization, with 60% to 80% of Ukraine's population sometimes referred to as "Nazi aides" who, according to Russian propagandists and some officials, must be killed.

We can argue a lot and discuss the top reasons why Putin decided to invade Ukraine. I do not even plan to voice my opinion now, I will write about it after the Ukrainian victory. But now one thing must be objectively clear. I keep asking everyone to understand this and not try to pretend that it is not. Russia's goal now is to destroy the Ukrainian state and the Ukrainian nation, to destroy it completely. Russia's goal now is the genocide of Ukrainians, so we have no choice but to fight and fight for our survival.

If Russia stops fighting, there will be no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no more Ukraine

I understand this. I was referring only to the moral judgements certain users are passing against individual Ukrainians. Obviously it is imperative that every able-bodied Ukrainian fights against Russia, and I would like to think that if put in such a situation, I would do the same. I just dislike the fact that comfy western internet users are acting morally outraged about the fact that some individuals might not feel capable of risking their lives in this situation. It is impossible for us to know what we'd do here until we're actually faced with such a choice.

 Oddly enough, you are both absolutely correct.

Stay safe Andriy. Get em!
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Badger
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« Reply #9712 on: April 11, 2022, 08:07:59 PM »

Yes. The same source who claimed a whole Russian army encircled to the North of Kherson and 48 had hours to surrender only to be destroyed definitely happened in our universe, and a supposed foreign volunteer has time to constantly update his twitter.

If you're looking at 2k deaths you'd have other casualties and wounded ranging from 5k-10k. You mean to tell me a single Ukrainian attack managed to do this, out of essentially wiping out a convoy spanning numerous miles and we don't have satellite pictures nor guys in the ground with vidoes.

I should have rather said that Russian TV alleges that 160 marines have surrendered. But all the other posts I have cited when it comes from Russian telegrams have I never claimed were 100% true. I posted them because they look authentic and was reported by other 3rd parties to be credible enough, including Ukrainian sources, and just that they should be taken into consideration.

I am not pro-Russia because that would be absolutely psychotic in this scenario.

I think it's unfair how a lot of insane junk and obvious misinfo which any reasonable person would realize is claimed for clicks is taken at face value is being posted. At the very least, if you're going to post such an insane event taking place, you should have pictures, interviews, videos, intel, etc from atleast one source, whoever that might be.

Well, if you do not agree with a certain post in this thread, you can quarrel and get into a discussion with the author of the post and others. Let's say it was propaganda. If so, you should not publish propaganda in response. It doesn't work that way. Simplify or deny, but do not publish false information from Russian propagandists who never tell the truth. If you really support Ukraine, I ask you not to publish information from Russian false sources.
Lets not pretend Ukainian fake news doesn't also exist. "Russian fake news" serves a certain slant and goal, and so does "Ukrainian fake news". It does a disservice to the thread to only show information only being put out by only one side.

Can we not do a both sides thing here please
Like it or not, I'm right. If we are human beings with basic comprehension skills we should understand not to take what either side says uncritically at face value.

 How about can you please stop pretending that the degree and volume of and volume of Russian fake news propaganda versus Ukrainian fake news propaganda is not remotely comparable, And the mere fact "both exist"  Is exactly one step removed from an afactual both sides ism.
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« Reply #9713 on: April 11, 2022, 08:10:55 PM »

I believe that there's a legitimate debate to be had over whether it's preferable to be ruled by Putin or to see your country devolve into a European Syria, and the keyboard insurgents who want to see years of violent resistance have no right to judge the Ukrainian people for which option they choose.

First of all, I want you to know that I consider you a great poster, and then I want to explain the situation a bit, completely refuting your opinion.

So, now in Ukrainian society there is no question of living under the regime of the Kremlin marasmic or living in "European Syria". This question is not available for simple reasons, namely because one of these options is simply impossible.

Following the Kremlin's rhetoric, one can trace the change and aggravation in it. Now "denazification" is equated with de-Ukrainization, with 60% to 80% of Ukraine's population sometimes referred to as "Nazi aides" who, according to Russian propagandists and some officials, must be killed.

We can argue a lot and discuss the top reasons why Putin decided to invade Ukraine. I do not even plan to voice my opinion now, I will write about it after the Ukrainian victory. But now one thing must be objectively clear. I keep asking everyone to understand this and not try to pretend that it is not. Russia's goal now is to destroy the Ukrainian state and the Ukrainian nation, to destroy it completely. Russia's goal now is the genocide of Ukrainians, so we have no choice but to fight and fight for our survival.

If Russia stops fighting, there will be no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no more Ukraine

I understand this. I was referring only to the moral judgements certain users are passing against individual Ukrainians. Obviously it is imperative that every able-bodied Ukrainian fights against Russia, and I would like to think that if put in such a situation, I would do the same. I just dislike the fact that comfy western internet users are acting morally outraged about the fact that some individuals might not feel capable of risking their lives in this situation. It is impossible for us to know what we'd do here until we're actually faced with such a choice.

 Oddly enough, you are both absolutely correct.

Stay safe Andriy. Get em!

I mean, it looks like if you are Ukrainian, your only choices are fight or flight. I don't think there are many scenarios were if you "just give up" that you will be spared.
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« Reply #9714 on: April 11, 2022, 08:13:29 PM »

I will also say an unpopular opinion, but I am sure of it: by starting the war against Ukraine, Russia has doomed itself to disintegration. The disintegration of Russia is now inevitable, regardless of the outcome of the war here. In 5-10 years, there will be many smaller states on the map instead of Russia, so we need to prepare for this.

It's great to see you alive and well!

I've had a thought about Russia's future, and want to hear what you think:

Suppose say that Ukraine scores a decisive victory on the battlefield: Russians are routed in the Donbass and Kherson, and Putin has no choice other than to retreat to pre-2014 borders (he doesn't use nukes because NATO actually warned him they would obliterate what remains of his troops). Russia is unable to prevent Ukraine from quickly joining the EU or NATO. Ukraine becomes a nuclear latent power akin to Japan.

Because this betrayal is so blatant to those Russians who had been waving Z flags, Putin abruptly pivots on his propaganda apparatus. Suddenly, mysterious documents appearing on state TV claim that NATO had been planning to use Ukraine as a base to invade Russia. They then claim that Russia conducted a pre-emptive strike to completely degrade Ukraine and NATO's ability to invade Russia; and that while Russia lost thousands of troops, it was a small price to pay to protect the Russian homeland. The FSB are ordered to arrest anyone who merely posts the word "betrayal" on VKontakte.

Putin also decides to massively slash the size and scope of the Russian military, both because he can't afford to maintain a large army, and to further reduce the risk of a coup. The Russian military is reduced to just three functions: 1) parades in Red Square 2) a few elite Spetsnaz HQ'd far from Moscow 3) a few hundred actually useable nukes. He also massively ramps up the FSB, turning Russia into a totalitarian police state. The west relaxes a few sanctions, but Russia's economy remains a complete basketcase.

This Russia is little more than a giant North Korea; but Putin both is too afraid of, and can't afford to, start any more wars. Western leaders continue to call Putin a war criminal who should be sent to The Hague, but quietly prefer him to remain in the Kremlin.

My question to you is, would you, as a Ukrainian citizen, accept that scenario? How would Ukrainian society react to that development? And, how plausible do you think that is?

I will answer briefly: I am not against such a scenario (objectively, Ukraine cannot return Crimea by military means; diplomatically - maybe after a certain period of time. The situation with the occupied parts of Donbas is the same. Therefore, I would be completely satisfied with your scenario. I have written here before, Russia has passed its own sentence - the disintegration into smaller states. Therefore, sooner or later, Crimea and Donbas will still return to Ukraine). I think Ukrainian society is about the same as I am.

As for the third question, I don't think this scenario is quite likely, because I'm sure that if Russia loses on the battlefield, putin will use nuclear weapons. Moreover, some Russian officials have already publicly stated the possibility of its use.


Hopefully a military loss leads to Putin being removed from power and thrown in Black Dolphin Prison for all the horrible crimes he has committed before he has a chance to do that

Absolutely,  but sadly unlikely.
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« Reply #9715 on: April 11, 2022, 08:56:38 PM »

Putin is continuing to ban Rap Music...

Now we have artist Ivan Dryomin who is now on his hit list:


Quote
Last Friday, Russia closed some of the last remaining independent institutions of civil society, including the Carnegie Moscow Center and the Moscow offices of Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. It expanded the practice of naming government critics as “foreign agents,” for the first time adding a popular musician to the list: the rapper Ivan Dryomin, 25, who goes by the name Face.

Russian Hip-Hop Artists against the War... Pls feel free to share on alternative social media platforms, since hip-hop will always break the Firewall.

Punk Rock provided alternative perspectives way back on both sides of Western and Eastern "Blocs", and now Hip-Hop can potentially bridge them again...

Here's a spoken word from a few years back:










Had previously posted about the Russian Hip-Hop artist Oxxxymiron, who is still rocking the beat against the Russian War in Ukraine and how effed up Russia has become...

Live from Berlin 5 days ago...















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« Reply #9716 on: April 11, 2022, 09:55:36 PM »

How effective will Russian forces be on the Eastern Front, despite their reinforcements and gradual consolidation of BTG's from the Northern Front, where they got their asses kicked on both the NW and NE fronts from Kyiv?

MF 'ers are pretty brutal but still large trains of "Russian Armored Convoys" appear much less intimidating than in the early days of the War, where the Russians suffered a decisive military defeat on the Northern Front.

Quote
They’ll be operating in familiar territory there, given Russia’s 2014 invasion, and with shorter supply lines, analysts say. The Russians also will be able to rely on a vast network of trains to resupply their army — no such rail network existed for them north of Kyiv.

Quote
There are other signs that the two armies are gearing up for a big fight. Newly-released satellite images showed a Russian convoy of hundreds of vehicles moving south through the Ukrainian town of Velykyi Burluk, east of Kharkiv and north of Izium, according to Maxar Technologies, which released the images Sunday.

Quote
Mr. Kagan said that, in the east, Russian forces may encounter some of the same mobility problems that they sustained in their invasion of northern Ukraine. Russian forces were largely confined to the country’s roads, as they were not able to traverse the terrain. That left Russian armored vehicles and trucks vulnerable to attack from Ukrainian forces, which — using Western-supplied anti-tank missiles — destroyed hundreds of Russian vehicles.

Quote
For the Russians, transportation problems are likely to get worse. Spring rains will turn much of the terrain into mud, further hampering mobility.

Mr. Kagan noted that Russian forces are “remarkably road-bound, which might actually make the east more challenging because the road network is much worse than the network around Kyiv.”


https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/11/world/ukraine-russia-war-news/the-next-big-battle-the-ukraine-war-will-likely-look-very-different-experts-say

A few additional Russian Convoy Update "Tit-Bits"... per WaPo:

Quote
A senior U.S. defense official, speaking on the condition of anonymity under terms set by the Pentagon, said that it was unclear when Russia may launch the new assault but that there were signs it was preparing to do so. So far, this official said, Russia has reinforced its military posture around the city of Donetsk, where Ukrainian forces have battled Russian separatists for several years, by adding artillery units to the southwest.

The convoy now pressing south from the Russian border includes a command element, a support battalion, helicopter support and infantrymen for security, the U.S. official said, calling it “clear evidence” that Russia already is pursuing its goal to seize the Donbas after failing to take Kyiv. Russia has focused the majority of its airstrikes in recent days on the Donbas region, the official said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/04/11/ukraine-russian-offensive-donbas/

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« Reply #9717 on: April 11, 2022, 10:20:35 PM »

Heroes:



These are French gendarmerie who have arrived in Ukraine to do investigation of Russian war crimes. I know France is considered to have some of the best investigators in the world for this sort of thing. Pretty awesome move actually going on site!
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« Reply #9718 on: April 11, 2022, 11:29:18 PM »

Looks like the People's Republic of China has tipped its hand, leaving no room for doubt whose side it is truly on.  They are no longer not just our 'strategic competitor' -they are our enemy:

China’s Echoes of Russia’s Alternate Reality Intensify Around the World
China’s officials and state media are increasingly parroting Russian propaganda organs on the war in Ukraine, undercutting U.S. and European diplomatic efforts, even after the killings in Bucha.

Quote
Only a month ago, the White House warned China not to amplify Russia’s campaign to sow disinformation about the war in Ukraine. The Chinese efforts have intensified anyway, contradicting and disputing the policies of NATO capitals, even as Russia faced renewed condemnation for the killings in Bucha and other atrocities in recent days.

The result has been to create an alternate reality of the war — not just for the consumption of China’s citizens but also for a global audience.

The propaganda has challenged the Western efforts to isolate Russia diplomatically, particularly in the Middle East, Africa and Latin America, which have been fertile ground for conspiracy theories and distrust of the United States.

“Russia and China have long shared distrust and animosity toward the West,” said Bret Schafer, an analyst who tracks disinformation for the Alliance for Securing Democracy, a nonprofit group in Washington. “On Ukraine, it’s a level above that — just the extent to which they have parroted some pretty specific and in some cases pretty far-fetched claims from Russia.”

The campaign by China has further undercut the country’s effort to present itself as a neutral actor in the war, eager to promote a peaceful resolution.

In fact, its diplomats and official journalists have become combatants in the informational war to legitimize Russia’s claims and discredit international concerns about what appear to be war crimes.
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NOVA Green
Oregon Progressive
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« Reply #9719 on: April 11, 2022, 11:29:32 PM »
« Edited: April 12, 2022, 07:32:03 PM by NOVA Green »

Heroes:



These are French gendarmerie who have arrived in Ukraine to do investigation of Russian war crimes. I know France is considered to have some of the best investigators in the world for this sort of thing. Pretty awesome move actually going on site!

International Brigade arrives to support Investigation of what are verifiable War Crimes in Bucha.

Problem naturally is that the longest the gap between the War Crimes and the International Forensic Units make it much more difficult to provide verifiable proof against individual Russian Soldiers guilty of War Crimes.

At least when it comes to Bucha, looks like some Anonymous Hackers have helped call out the evidence.

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NOVA Green
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« Reply #9720 on: April 12, 2022, 12:09:20 AM »

Did Russia use "Willy Pete" in Maripoul?

Most of you young Atlas folx have no idea what I'm talking about, but yeah bad s**t even in WW II regardless of civilian or military targets.

Not like Yanks haven't used it before, but been many decades...


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Badger
badger
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« Reply #9721 on: April 12, 2022, 01:55:04 AM »

Putin is continuing to ban Rap Music...

BRTD suddenly supports the invasion.
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Badger
badger
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« Reply #9722 on: April 12, 2022, 02:00:00 AM »

Did Russia use "Willy Pete" in Maripoul?

Most of you young Atlas folx have no idea what I'm talking about, but yeah bad s**t even in WW II regardless of civilian or military targets.

Not like Yanks haven't used it before, but been many decades...




 Is white phosphorus. Ugly stuff.
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Woody
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« Reply #9723 on: April 12, 2022, 03:16:56 AM »


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pppolitics
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« Reply #9724 on: April 12, 2022, 04:04:07 AM »

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