2012 NDP leadership convention

[RogueBeaver]

He has 33 MP's. If I can find out which ones I'll map it.

33 people out of over 80,000 members.

[MaxQue]

He has 33 MP's. If I can find out which ones I'll map it.

33 people out of over 80,000 members.

33 persons which have a weight in their riding associations (to be created for some, true).

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

A third of the caucus.

And does anyone have their names?

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Jamie Nicholls, Vaudreuil-Soulanges; Robert Aubin, Trois-Rivières; Claude Patry, Jonquière-Alma; François Lapointe, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup[39]; Pierre Nantel, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher; Marc-André Morin, Laurentides—Labelle; Tarik Brahmi, Saint-Jean;[40], Matthew Dubé, Chambly—Borduas; [41] Alexandrine Latendresse, Louis-Saint-Laurent[42]; Hélène LeBlanc, LaSalle-Émard; Jean Rousseau, Compton—Stanstead; Mathieu Ravignat, Pontiac; Sadia Groguhé, Saint-Lambert; Pierre Dionne Labelle, Rivière-du-Nord[43]; Pierre-Luc Dusseault, Sherbrooke[44]; Djaouida Sellah, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert[45]; Annick Papillon, Québec; Anne-Marie Day, Charlesbourg—Haut-Saint-Charles[46], Philip Toone, Jonathan Tremblay, Jonathan Genest-Jourdain, Sylvain Chicoine, Réjean Genest, Sana Hassainia, Pierre Jacob, Marie-Claude Morin, José Nunez-Melo, Manon Perreault, François Pilon, Lise St-Denis, Dan Harris, Matthew Kellway, Wayne Marston, John Rafferty[47]

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

All that matters are the non-Quebec Mulcair supporters and the non-Mulcair Quebec members.

MULCAIR
A bunch of non-important Quebec MP's plus...
Dan Harris, Scarborough SW
Matt Kellway, Beaches-East York
Wayne L Marston, Hamilton East
John Rafferty, Thunder B

TOPP
A bunch of non-important non-Quebec MP's plus...
Françoise Boivin, Gatineau
Alain Giguère, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin
Alexandre Boulerice, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie

[RogueBeaver]

The 8 you mentioned matter in their ridings, but I've never heard of anyone on Mulcair's list.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

No, they don't matter in their ridings.

They matter in the media.

[RogueBeaver]

No, they don't matter in their ridings.

They matter in the media.

Who are Mulcair's people again? :}

[MaxQue]

No, they don't matter in their ridings.

They matter in the media.

Who are Mulcair's people again? :}

The leader of the NBNDP and Lorne Nystrom.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Nystrom backing a Quebecer is interesting from a historical perspective, to say the least.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Nystrom has always been the most moderate. I voted for him for leader.

[MaxQue]

Nystrom backing a Quebecer is interesting from a historical perspective, to say the least.

Care to say more?
I don't really know Nystrom, I'm too young and the coverage of NDP in Quebec before Layton was inexistant.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Nystrom backing a Quebecer is interesting from a historical perspective, to say the least.

Care to say more?
I don't really know Nystrom, I'm too young and the coverage of NDP in Quebec before Layton was inexistant.

I probably phrased that in the wrong way; I don't mean 'interesting' as 'surprising' but just as 'interesting'. Nystrom was heavily involved in political debates over constitutional issues in the 80s and 90s. I think, though may be misremembering, that he was always opposed to the cruder forms of federalism.

[RogueBeaver]

Nystrom backing a Quebecer is interesting from a historical perspective, to say the least.

Care to say more?
I don't really know Nystrom, I'm too young and the coverage of NDP in Quebec before Layton was inexistant.

I probably phrased that in the wrong way; I don't mean 'interesting' as 'surprising' but just as 'interesting'. Nystrom was heavily involved in political debates over constitutional issues in the 80s and 90s. I think, though may be misremembering, that he was always opposed to the cruder forms of federalism.

What do you mean by "cruder"? There are essentially two views among the federalist parties: varying degrees of centralism (NDP until 2005, most Liberals) and provincial-rights advocates (Tories, a few Grits). I assume you mean Trudeauvian centralism.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I assume you mean Trudeauvian centralism.

Indeed. I wrote 'cruder' because, intellectually, there's nothing there...

[RogueBeaver]

IMO he's coming dangerously close to holding traditional NDP culture in contempt.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1069500--tim-harper-tom-mulcair-versus-the-ndp-elite

[MaxQue]

IMO he's coming dangerously close to holding traditional NDP culture in contempt.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1069500--tim-harper-tom-mulcair-versus-the-ndp-elite

NDP needs to extend beyond the traditional NDP if they want to gain power.
That will be painful for the elites, but it is needed.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

An NDP that is moderate enough might eve get my vote

[Marokai Backbeat]

An NDP that is moderate enough might eve get my vote

And what about the NDP proposed policies specifically put you off of voting for them in May?

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

The crazy left-wing ones.

[Marokai Backbeat]

The crazy left-wing ones.

Which were?

I don't see how the NDP can go that much further to the center without just being slightly more appealing Liberals. It sort of defeats the purpose of the NDP's entire existence.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

The crazy left-wing ones.

Which were?

I don't see how the NDP can go that much further to the center without just being slightly more appealing Liberals. It sort of defeats the purpose of the NDP's entire existence.

Policies don't matter, parties never do what they say, it's about what their members think is right and wrong. Many Tories think Gay rights are wrong, and they are therefore wrong. NDPers are the kind that'd arrest George Bush, and for that they are also wrong. I am no Socialist, and the NDP is an openly socialist party.

[Marokai Backbeat]

We're not arguing over the politics as it's debated on news channels, or arguing over why the general population might sway one way or another. People on this forum generally are, or should be, above that. The NDP is a Socialist party at this point in the sense that a lot of their policies are rooted in socialism and they have a socialist wing. Also in the sense that they actually recognize their policies have socialist roots instead of pretending they don't. But the party by and large at this point has moderated substantially, especially now that they're in the spotlight.

In both demeanor and in policy, the NDP is far more serious than they were a decade ago, and certainly moreso than they were several decades ago. It's silly to allow the far-left wing of the party more attention than they deserve. The Conservatives have a reasonably right-wing faction, but you don't see the Conservatives governing in that fashion for obvious reasons.

The NDP is a left-wing party that has seriously, for lack of a better phrase, "grown up" in recent years. What you seem to want of them is for them to become the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party being the Liberal Party is why there is a stronger-than-ever NDP. I simply don't see what more could reasonably be done without losing touch with what the NDP actually is.

I apologize if this seems harsh, but not voting for a party on the basis of "they have a few members that said this one time" seems shallow and silly. I expect that from some people, obviously, but I always assumed members of this forum would be smarter than that.

[Hatman 🍁]

I think most NDPers (like myself) who want the party to become more moderate, would like to see the party go back to the left over time. As I always say, go first to where the voters are, and then bring them to where you want them to be.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

It's also priorities. If the government could somehow magically reduce all taxes to 1% and fully fund every program anyone could dream of, all parties would opt for this. The NDP's priorities, especially on the federal level, are not mine.