This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[CumbrianLefty]

This is worth watching (and isn’t a comment on the effectiveness of this strategy!)

It reminds me of when a ‘swing’ voter in 1997 was telling Blair he needed to bring back the birch to sort out anti social behaviour.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-57849730

It appears this focus group of "former lifelong Labour voters" had at least one who, by their very own admission, hadn't actually voted Labour since......1997.

Maybe not actually that representative?

[Blair]

I do wonder if the Tories will do this with voters in Richmond, Bath or Esher. Although admittedly Labour need to win at least one of the Blackpool seats if it wants to get north of 250 seats.

This is worth watching (and isn’t a comment on the effectiveness of this strategy!)

It reminds me of when a ‘swing’ voter in 1997 was telling Blair he needed to bring back the birch to sort out anti social behaviour.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-57849730

It appears this focus group of "former lifelong Labour voters" had at least one who, by their very own admission, hadn't actually voted Labour since......1997.

Maybe not actually that representative?

Yes there’s a very weird trend of people talking about lifelong Labour voters who haven’t voted Labour for most of my lifetime!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I do wonder if the Tories will do this with voters in Richmond, Bath or Esher. Although admittedly Labour need to win at least one of the Blackpool seats if it wants to get north of 250 seats.

Not presently but a few years ago probably very heavily and who knows what the next leader of that party but one or two or whatever will do. Except that, whatever they do, they'll use a lot of focus groups because they love them even more than Labour.

[Blair]

It’s too hot for Labour drama

[CumbrianLefty]

It’s too hot for Labour drama

Government seems to be doing their best to fill the gap tbf.

[Blair]

Today’s news about the party being dead broke is a good time to remind everyone of the rather hilarious/terrifying rumours that members of the NEC would be personally liable for any debts/financial penalties if the party did end up going under.

Another good reason not to join!

[CumbrianLefty]

If the party went broke, surely it would simply be resurrected in "phoenix club" style?

Its too big to simply disappear.

Or maybe all those wealthy donors - who, we were assured, would easily replace such a cranky and old fashioned concept as actual "members" - would step in with their altruistic largesse?

Strange that hasn't actually happened eh.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It isn't really news - it was clear that the party's financial position was in fact 'not good' despite periodic claims to the contrary* when layoffs followed the last GE, and to that now must be added its considerable legal costs - so much as an official confirmation.

Anyway the legal position is that an organisation such as the Labour Party cannot enter bankruptcy and can be maintained indefinitely despite whatever debts so long as money comes in, but if it were to fold (and note that it cannot be forced to) then, yes, it would probably be individual NEC members who would have to foot the bill.

_{*Questions very much raised by that, but you'll never find out as there is no way that any faction would wish for outside accountants to go through the books with a fine-tooth comb, no way at all. Probably all that can be done is to carefully note certain names down and to raise severe objections if they're ever appointed or suggested to any position involving money in any situation, Labour Party/TU related or not.}

[Blair]

If it wasn’t for the other reports the stuff about Liverpool would be equally damning… I wonder if we’ll ever see the full report but there are rumours that they’re not letting selections go ahead for 5 years…

[CumbrianLefty]

The new disciplinary arrangements look like they might be a real step forward, though - at least they will be if they are implemented in a fair and non-factional manner. Ah, there's the rub.....

[Blair]

Hahahah

https://mobile.twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1418174909646311429

[LabourJersey]

Hahahah

https://mobile.twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1418174909646311429

Isn't the loss of the designation because of the new Everton stadium? What...does that have to do with Starmer?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I see that someone is... unfamiliar with Mr Beckett.

[LabourJersey]

I see that someone is... unfamiliar with Mr Beckett.

My brain only has so much space for the characters who make up the British Left

[Blair]

Hahahah

https://mobile.twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1418174909646311429

Isn't the loss of the designation because of the new Everton stadium? What...does that have to do with Starmer?

It’s a long running issue (I don’t know much about it but know that it’s been discussed for many years)

The essay question is whether Beckett is actually dense enough to think this is a Starmer led plot or if he’s just bored and overly enthusiastic with his tweeting. He has form for it to be either.

 

I see that someone is... unfamiliar with Mr Beckett.

My brain only has so much space for the characters who make up the British Left

A character for sure.

He’s the current head of legal services for UNITE the Union- he was formally a solicitor- read more below.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2009-05-19/debates/09051977000648/BritishCoalCompensation

Since joining the top rungs of UNITE he was quite a character- he was reported to be the driving force behind the union taking a rather strange line during a legal wrangling during a libel case relating to a Labour MP- which UNITE lost and had to face significant costs for.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/anna-turley-libel-case-swawkbox-unite-union-377122

He was also one of the UNITE reps on Labours National Executive Committee and since Keir Starmer has been elected has been one of the strongest opponents over various issues which all seemed very important at the time. He had a rather funny fight with Keir over legal advice… I know who I’d want representing me in court!

Since then he has been suspended from Labour for a bizarre tweet saying Priti Patel should be deported.

Outside of Labour he also tried to run to be the head of UNITE the Union. He lost in what was the de facto primary of the UNITE Left grouping (United Left) to Steve Turner- it was a rather ugly virtual vote- there were allegations of the dead voting, ballots going missing and the usual hi-jinks of the Labour movement.

Rather than dropping out as agreed he tried to keep running- two of his promises were to create UNITE TV and to charge Boris with manslaughter or something similar. He had a very vocal and loud online following promoted by his social media use- well more accurately a part of UK left Twitter.

He has since dropped out of the race and endorsed Steve Turner after there was a very real risk of their being three left wing candidates against the moderate Gerard Coyne- it’s a first past the post race for GS and Coyne would have won. (He still could)

I’m sure Al will be able to give some better stories on him but this has turned into a rather lengthy post about someone who despite my usual ranting is actually a pretty good manifestation of various trends in the Labour left.

[Blair]

I also forget to make a glib point about Liverpool not always being a socialist city- it was iirc ran by the Conservatives at a local level until the 1970s?

[LabourJersey]

Hahahah

https://mobile.twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1418174909646311429

Isn't the loss of the designation because of the new Everton stadium? What...does that have to do with Starmer?

It’s a long running issue (I don’t know much about it but know that it’s been discussed for many years)

The essay question is whether Beckett is actually dense enough to think this is a Starmer led plot or if he’s just bored and overly enthusiastic with his tweeting. He has form for it to be either.

 

I see that someone is... unfamiliar with Mr Beckett.

My brain only has so much space for the characters who make up the British Left

A character for sure.

He’s the current head of legal services for UNITE the Union- he was formally a solicitor- read more below.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2009-05-19/debates/09051977000648/BritishCoalCompensation

Since joining the top rungs of UNITE he was quite a character- he was reported to be the driving force behind the union taking a rather strange line during a legal wrangling during a libel case relating to a Labour MP- which UNITE lost and had to face significant costs for.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/anna-turley-libel-case-swawkbox-unite-union-377122

He was also one of the UNITE reps on Labours National Executive Committee and since Keir Starmer has been elected has been one of the strongest opponents over various issues which all seemed very important at the time. He had a rather funny fight with Keir over legal advice… I know who I’d want representing me in court!

Since then he has been suspended from Labour for a bizarre tweet saying Priti Patel should be deported.

Outside of Labour he also tried to run to be the head of UNITE the Union. He lost in what was the de facto primary of the UNITE Left grouping (United Left) to Steve Turner- it was a rather ugly virtual vote- there were allegations of the dead voting, ballots going missing and the usual hi-jinks of the Labour movement.

Rather than dropping out as agreed he tried to keep running- two of his promises were to create UNITE TV and to charge Boris with manslaughter or something similar. He had a very vocal and loud online following promoted by his social media use- well more accurately a part of UK left Twitter.

He has since dropped out of the race and endorsed Steve Turner after there was a very real risk of their being three left wing candidates against the moderate Gerard Coyne- it’s a first past the post race for GS and Coyne would have won. (He still could)

I’m sure Al will be able to give some better stories on him but this has turned into a rather lengthy post about someone who despite my usual ranting is actually a pretty good manifestation of various trends in the Labour left.

Thanks for the rundown

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I also forget to make a glib point about Liverpool not always being a socialist city- it was iirc ran by the Conservatives at a local level until the 1970s?

Had a Conservative administration continually from the late 19th century until the 1950s when it elected its first Labour majority. The 1970s is significant because that's when the Liberals emerged as major players in local government there, following a great moment of crisis in the history of the city as it lost its economic function and saw the grand vision for its transformation into a city of the future agreed to by both major parties hit the buffers because of the economic disaster. And it's been a cycle of crisis, crisis management and attempted 'rebirth' ever since.

Anyway, I'm not sure if the concept of a socialist city (or town or village) makes any sense at all in th context of 2021. So much of what is read into place by political people of all stripes is delusional projection.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I also forget to make a glib point about Liverpool not always being a socialist city- it was iirc ran by the Conservatives at a local level until the 1970s?

Wasn't it also run after the whole Militant diaster by the lib dems until around 2010 ? Labour local rule seems to be the exception rather than the norm.

[CumbrianLefty]

I also forget to make a glib point about Liverpool not always being a socialist city- it was iirc ran by the Conservatives at a local level until the 1970s?

Wasn't it also run after the whole Militant diaster by the lib dems until around 2010 ? Labour local rule seems to be the exception rather than the norm.

Labour actually ran it for most of the time between the early 80s and the late 90s, despite the former Militant element winning significant support (and some councillors)

They returned to overall control in 2010, and of course the LibDems then declined spectacularly.

[Blair]

Have any of the CLPs in Liverpool previously been in special measures for years like Manchester Gorton was?

I’ve heard lots of horror stories about various selections (and like most toxic ones they weren’t the generic left v right) 

[CumbrianLefty]

Dawn Butler made an obvious, but still effective, splash on parliament's final day before the summer recess on Thursday. Calling out BoJo as a habitual serial liar en masse at the appropriate moment might yet prove an effective weapon for the opposition (SNP/LibDems as well as Labour, maybe)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What damages most is the continual repetition of what people suspect is probably true. The classic case for our times being Corbyn: the more extravagant attacks never hit home, the more mundane stuff that was actually true or was partially true or looked as it it could be true (we are not discussing the balance today, thanks!) did the sort of damage that water dripping on limestone does over a long period of time. 

[cp]

What damages most is the continual repetition of what people suspect is probably true. The classic case for our times being Corbyn: the more extravagant attacks never hit home, the more mundane stuff that was actually true or was partially true or looked as it it could be true (we are not discussing the balance today, thanks!) did the sort of damage that water dripping on limestone does over a long period of time.  

I think it's less a matter of the 'truth' of the message and more a matter of the uniformity of the repetition that does the trick. The 'mundane' allegations against Corbyn were no more rooted in truth or rationality than the 'extravagant' ones, it's just that they were repeated ad nauseum and in a highly coordinated manner. For comparison's sake, it's analogous to the nonsense about Hillary Clinton's emails in the US.  

Relevantly, this sort of uniformity requires a degree of institutional capture - or, at any rate, acquiescence - among the media/City/Westminster axis that Labour hasn't been able to attempt since il duce stepped down in 2007.

[Geoffrey Howe]

People have been doing the same ad nauseam with Boris Johnson and he isn't as universally reviled as Corbyn. I think it's because has some redeeming features - humourous, intelligent, annoys the right people - which Corbyn didn't have.