Does the Jesus Christ Party have an effective monopoly over Atlasian politics?

[Хahar 🤔]

For now? Yes, as did the NLC before it. This is not unusual.

I have advocated a realignment for a while...

A social-democratic party
A conservative party
A "populist" Farmer-Labor-esque party
A party for economic moderate/social libertarians

If I did'nt love my DA brothers so I would personally found this party

And it would be successful. Imagine. You, Tmth, benconstine, MasterJedi, Al and then some other less prominent... It would serve a purpose.

Likewise, a party containing myself, Einzige, Franzl, bullmoose, even Hashemite.. An NLC-like party would make a great addition.

Why wouldn't Al be in the socialist party?

[Хahar 🤔]

We do well because we're not run by crazy party dictators (Bgwah has a decidedly laid-back style) or lashing out at every other party.

News to me. Especially the parenthetical part.

[Хahar 🤔]

We do well because we're not run by crazy party dictators (Bgwah has a decidedly laid-back style) or lashing out at every other party.

News to me. Especially the parenthetical part.

Then perhaps you should have an open mind. It's not hard to realize. You're a little biased given your past interactions with the party, with all due respect. Most JCP-haters are.

And have I no reason to be?

Atlasia as a whole must not become like the Pacific.

[Хahar 🤔]

The LNF has offered and does offer genuine opposition: not just to the transitory aspects of the game, to whoever the controversial figure of the day is, but to the system as a whole, to the flawed paradigm that has nonetheless taken root.

[Хahar 🤔]

The LNF has offered and does offer genuine opposition: not just to the transitory aspects of the game, to whoever the controversial figure of the day is, but to the system as a whole, to the flawed paradigm that has nonetheless taken root.

Aye, but the LNF is a non-ideological catch-all Party for the disgruntled - good for a protest vote, but hardly a governing Party.

Perhaps that is so, but this is not yet the time for ideologization.

We do well because we're not run by crazy party dictators (Bgwah has a decidedly laid-back style) or lashing out at every other party.

News to me. Especially the parenthetical part.

Bgwah has never tried to be involved in one of my decisions and he never tried to influence my vote in an election or in Senate. If that weren't for conventions, I would never hear of him as a leader.

And you know than I have a problem with strong leaderships, I already had this problem in the SDP.

The SDP had the weakest leadership possible during its heyday.

Common ideals? You make it seem like the JCP and DA never find anything in common. We find socially liberal positions in common quite often, and JCP and DA Senators often have found agreement on economic matters as well. They're not some abused minority that don't get anything they want passed, for heaven's sake.

Which is precisely the point and the problem, methinks - you agree too much, to the ultimate effect that makes it seem as if a vote for the DA is a vote for the JCP by proxy.

The DA is not just the moderate liberal/moderate libertarian party, though. A commonly forgotten fact is that they're also the mature party not interested in cutthroat tactics, secrecy, and viciously plotting the demise of other parties. We find a good deal in common with them on these issues as well. They also like doing their jobs and voting properly, the latter the LNF seems to have an unfortunate problem with.

Hmm?

[Хahar 🤔]

I'm not sure if so many parties can coexist.

[Хahar 🤔]

I'm not sure if so many parties can coexist.

4 parties?

We have 5 now.

True, true. But they are not similar in size.

I'm not sure if so many parties can coexist.

I certainly think they could. The total vote threshold to win an election would be lowered, but at the same time you'd have something more representative, which I'd consider to be more truly democratic.

I think we'd be subject to parties cannibalizing each other.

[Хahar 🤔]

The RPP is rather larger than the other three, I believe.

At any rate, things must be changed in February.

[Хahar 🤔]

I think we'd be subject to parties cannibalizing each other.

Which is all part of the democratic practice - it would actually force politicians to be more flexible, to court the bases of the other Parties, hence implicitly forcing them to take a less ideological stance. Which may be bad for you if you're presently the majority Party, but fine for you when you aren't.

Yes, but the process would, I fear, lead eventually to a dominant-party system. It appears to be the norm in Atlasia.

Atlasia is in serious need of partisan restructuring. Can we all agree?

Absolutely. But such things take time.

[Хahar 🤔]

I think we'd be subject to parties cannibalizing each other.

Which is all part of the democratic practice - it would actually force politicians to be more flexible, to court the bases of the other Parties, hence implicitly forcing them to take a less ideological stance. Which may be bad for you if you're presently the majority Party, but fine for you when you aren't.

Yes, but the process would, I fear, lead eventually to a dominant-party system. It appears to be the norm in Atlasia.

Sure, probably it would. But such periods would probably be shorter than they are presently (seriously, thirteen months, when the length of the average Presidential term is three?). Moreover, it'd probably make the game more interesting, at any rate.

Hopefully, that would be the case.

At any rate, it is clear that the catalyst must be the defeat of the JCP in February. All other forces must unite.

[Хahar 🤔]

Marokai, why did you not vote for bgwah/Meeker?

Because I didn't believe Bgwah was doing much as President and Xahar had brainwashed me into thinking of the JCP as our rivals, when we really had alot in common.

It wasn't until later that I realized alot of the SDP was founded or comprised of at one point or another, people who have silly age-old "he took my lunch money" problems with the JCP they can't get over.

Pah!

The SDP was created to fill a void in the left. Obviously, there was such a void, or it would not have grown so fast. The JCP was confined to its stagnant backwater, the Pacific. It was not the left-wing party until you made it so.

Stop pushing your revisionist history.

[Хahar 🤔]

And add than Xahar brainwashed me.

What's this now?

[Хahar 🤔]

Marokai, why did you not vote for bgwah/Meeker?

Because I didn't believe Bgwah was doing much as President and Xahar had brainwashed me into thinking of the JCP as our rivals, when we really had alot in common.

It wasn't until later that I realized alot of the SDP was founded or comprised of at one point or another, people who have silly age-old "he took my lunch money" problems with the JCP they can't get over.

Pah!

The SDP was created to fill a void in the left. Obviously, there was such a void, or it would not have grown so fast. The JCP was confined to its stagnant backwater, the Pacific. It was not the left-wing party until you made it so.

Stop pushing your revisionist history.

The JCP was a left-wing party then just as it is today, just more politically viable. There was no void in the left in any real way. The void in the left was created by people like Lewis, yourself, Earl, Al, etc. All people that simply have immature school-cafeteria problems with the JCP and refuse to work with them.

Many in the LNF today, still consist of that bunch. You're not a left-wing party, you are a left-wing "anti-bgwah" party.

Listen. It's clear you know not that of which you speak. The JCP was not a major party. It had no presence outside the Pacific. It had elected Friz and Everett to the Senate. Successful left-wing parties had existed without the JCP. Why on Earth would anyone join the JCP?

Your pronouncements are getting old. Analyzing this from your (flawed) modern perspective is meaningless. You once made the preposterous claim that Condorcet methods were advanced to help the SDP. Do you remember that? For God's sake, shut up!

[Хahar 🤔]

Marokai, why did you not vote for bgwah/Meeker?

Because I didn't believe Bgwah was doing much as President and Xahar had brainwashed me into thinking of the JCP as our rivals, when we really had alot in common.

It wasn't until later that I realized alot of the SDP was founded or comprised of at one point or another, people who have silly age-old "he took my lunch money" problems with the JCP they can't get over.

Pah!

The SDP was created to fill a void in the left. Obviously, there was such a void, or it would not have grown so fast. The JCP was confined to its stagnant backwater, the Pacific. It was not the left-wing party until you made it so.

Stop pushing your revisionist history.

The JCP was a left-wing party then just as it is today, just more politically viable. There was no void in the left in any real way. The void in the left was created by people like Lewis, yourself, Earl, Al, etc. All people that simply have immature school-cafeteria problems with the JCP and refuse to work with them.

Many in the LNF today, still consist of that bunch. You're not a left-wing party, you are a left-wing "anti-bgwah" party.

Listen. It's clear you know not that of which you speak. The JCP was not a major party. It had no presence outside the Pacific. It had elected Friz and Everett to the Senate. Successful left-wing parties had existed without the JCP. Why on Earth would anyone join the JCP?

Your pronouncements are getting old. Analyzing this from your (flawed) modern perspective is meaningless. You once made the preposterous claim that Condorcet methods were advanced to help the SDP. Do you remember that? For God's sake, shut up!

I did not make the claim that Condorcet was put forward by the SDP to benefit them, I was simply repeating what Max told me. Yes, I should've done my work, but I apologized. Although, the fact that Condorcet manipulates the way we count votes to benefit those at the bottom is still true.

The JCP, though, was a left-wing party. I did not claim it was the left-wing party. But the JCP did play a part in Atlasian politics, with a presence in the Presidency and Vice Presidency at one point or another for a decent period of time and had, at varying times, elected anywhere from 1-3 Senators. When the SDP joined the JCP, it became "the" left-wing party, but at the time, there wasn't really a single left-wing party that was all that powerful, we were, as an ideological group, getting slaughtered.

My decision to join the SDP and the JCP saved the left-wing of Atlasia from irrelevance in the face of the dominating RPP. I'm sorry you and other didn't come along with us, but that's the way the die rolls. Look back on the left-wing parties during my early months in Atlasia. The SDP, the JCP, the Horse Party. It was ludicrous. The Horse party was just a bunch of "loons" that eventually started the LNF. The SDP and the JCP were rivals for no reason. We unified from disunity.

And you indict the whole Atlasian left for not joining the JCP in the summer of 2008? Let me explain something to you.

Imagine that, during the period in which the Southeast was an RPP fief, the regional Senate seat fell vacant. Consequently, AHDuke99 appointed an utter zombie, who never posted outside Atlasia and never posted in Atlasia, except to vote however Fluffy was voting. Then, suppose that a conservative-libertarian candidate decided to run for Senate, but did not join the RPP because he disliked this practice and disapproved of zombies. Suppose that the zombie Senator won, and proceeded to spend 4 more months doing nothing.

That is what the JCP did. The RPP would never at its peak have dreamed of doing that. It got to the point where one Senator-elect resigned immediately after being elected on the grounds that she would be a horrible Senator. And you blame us for this?

I don't understand the hate- the Jesus Christ Party is a progressive organization dedicated to good government. If the party has had some success, this is because many Atlasians like what they see. Why would you want to fight that?

Sincerely,

Former Senator Rob (JCP-OR)

Do you remember your immediate successor in the Senate?

He represented everything wrong with Atlasia.

[Хahar 🤔]

Wasn't Friz an Ebowed sock account?

Friz is not a sock.

Funny that you would use the present tense.

I don't understand the hate- the Jesus Christ Party is a progressive organization dedicated to good government. If the party has had some success, this is because many Atlasians like what they see. Why would you want to fight that?

Sincerely,

Former Senator Rob (JCP-OR)

What's baffling is how the blame is somehow placed on the JCP.

The LNF comes to form after the merging of the SDP and JCP, because they, for the most part, don't like Bgwah.

The DA doesn't want to associate with the right-wing and people like Hamilton because they've acted like utter fools for months, so they have friendly relationships with mature JCP members they're close to.

The ARC forms in a split from the RPP and right-wing in general, despite having almost identical positions.

And all of this, the result of it, is our fault? That has to be the single dumbest conclusion I've ever seen anyone reach here in Atlasia. It's utterly mind boggling.

It's indubitably your fault. It's not necessarily the JCP's fault, but the point isn't to assign blame. The JCP is detrimental to Atlasia.

Marokai, why did you not vote for bgwah/Meeker?

Because I didn't believe Bgwah was doing much as President and Xahar had brainwashed me into thinking of the JCP as our rivals, when we really had alot in common.

It wasn't until later that I realized alot of the SDP was founded or comprised of at one point or another, people who have silly age-old "he took my lunch money" problems with the JCP they can't get over.

Pah!

The SDP was created to fill a void in the left. Obviously, there was such a void, or it would not have grown so fast. The JCP was confined to its stagnant backwater, the Pacific. It was not the left-wing party until you made it so.

Stop pushing your revisionist history.

The JCP was a left-wing party then just as it is today, just more politically viable. There was no void in the left in any real way. The void in the left was created by people like Lewis, yourself, Earl, Al, etc. All people that simply have immature school-cafeteria problems with the JCP and refuse to work with them.

Many in the LNF today, still consist of that bunch. You're not a left-wing party, you are a left-wing "anti-bgwah" party.

Listen. It's clear you know not that of which you speak. The JCP was not a major party. It had no presence outside the Pacific. It had elected Friz and Everett to the Senate. Successful left-wing parties had existed without the JCP. Why on Earth would anyone join the JCP?

Your pronouncements are getting old. Analyzing this from your (flawed) modern perspective is meaningless. You once made the preposterous claim that Condorcet methods were advanced to help the SDP. Do you remember that? For God's sake, shut up!

I did not make the claim that Condorcet was put forward by the SDP to benefit them, I was simply repeating what Max told me. Yes, I should've done my work, but I apologized. Although, the fact that Condorcet manipulates the way we count votes to benefit those at the bottom is still true.

The JCP, though, was a left-wing party. I did not claim it was the left-wing party. But the JCP did play a part in Atlasian politics, with a presence in the Presidency and Vice Presidency at one point or another for a decent period of time and had, at varying times, elected anywhere from 1-3 Senators. When the SDP joined the JCP, it became "the" left-wing party, but at the time, there wasn't really a single left-wing party that was all that powerful, we were, as an ideological group, getting slaughtered.

My decision to join the SDP and the JCP saved the left-wing of Atlasia from irrelevance in the face of the dominating RPP. I'm sorry you and other didn't come along with us, but that's the way the die rolls. Look back on the left-wing parties during my early months in Atlasia. The SDP, the JCP, the Horse Party. It was ludicrous. The Horse party was just a bunch of "loons" that eventually started the LNF. The SDP and the JCP were rivals for no reason. We unified from disunity.

And you indict the whole Atlasian left for not joining the JCP in the summer of 2008? Let me explain something to you.

Imagine that, during the period in which the Southeast was an RPP fief, the regional Senate seat fell vacant. Consequently, AHDuke99 appointed an utter zombie, who never posted outside Atlasia and never posted in Atlasia, except to vote however Fluffy was voting. Then, suppose that a conservative-libertarian candidate decided to run for Senate, but did not join the RPP because he disliked this practice and disapproved of zombies. Suppose that the zombie Senator won, and proceeded to spend 4 more months doing nothing.

That is what the JCP did. The RPP would never at its peak have dreamed of doing that. It got to the point where one Senator-elect resigned immediately after being elected on the grounds that she would be a horrible Senator. And you blame us for this?

I know what the JCP did, and I know for a fact that Bgwah regrets what happened there, but the JCP also gave you a chance by reaching out to you and appointing you to be Attorney General, a position in which you went down in flames after your absurd behavior with Benconstine. You didn't exactly give the JCP a high opinion of you after Bgwah gave you a shot.

Let's not, as you've done, just pretend that whole thing never happened.

Regrets? Regrets? I haven't heard them.

I am sorry that I wasted the chance that our Lord and Saviour so graciously deigned to offer me. I promise not to let his grace go to waste ever again, should he be so forgiving as to offer to me another chance of which I am profoundly unworthy.

[Хahar 🤔]

This thread was started due to a disconnect in ideological alignment. You are correct in criticizing Marokai's flawed analysis, as is Xahar.

BTW, Rob, you need to be more active.

How would you have the atlasian political world align?

He said he would have an ACA, NLC, SDP, and CDP.

[Хahar 🤔]

It reminds me a little of Zimbabwe... there is an opposition, there are elections, but realistically, only one party is going to win. The difference is that Zimbabwe's elections aren't free and fair, but the result is still the same.

That's kind of a major difference. Actually, it ruins the entire analogy.

Aye. It reminds me of Singapore, actually.

[Хahar 🤔]

*gloss gloss gloss*

There's a rather interesting disconnect between what you say and what Marokai says you think.

[Хahar 🤔]

Don't get me wrong, a party that is centrist in its beliefs is a novel idea, but there are not enough of us to win a national election, and we don't get along well enough anyway.

The first two contentions there are certainly wrong. The last one may well be true.