Does the Jesus Christ Party have an effective monopoly over Atlasian politics?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Marokai, why did you not vote for bgwah/Meeker?

Because I didn't believe Bgwah was doing much as President and Xahar had brainwashed me into thinking of the JCP as our rivals, when we really had alot in common.

It wasn't until later that I realized alot of the SDP was founded or comprised of at one point or another, people who have silly age-old "he took my lunch money" problems with the JCP they can't get over.

Pah!

The SDP was created to fill a void in the left. Obviously, there was such a void, or it would not have grown so fast. The JCP was confined to its stagnant backwater, the Pacific. It was not the left-wing party until you made it so.

Stop pushing your revisionist history.

The JCP was a left-wing party then just as it is today, just more politically viable. There was no void in the left in any real way. The void in the left was created by people like Lewis, yourself, Earl, Al, etc. All people that simply have immature school-cafeteria problems with the JCP and refuse to work with them.

Many in the LNF today, still consist of that bunch. You're not a left-wing party, you are a left-wing "anti-bgwah" party.

Listen. It's clear you know not that of which you speak. The JCP was not a major party. It had no presence outside the Pacific. It had elected Friz and Everett to the Senate. Successful left-wing parties had existed without the JCP. Why on Earth would anyone join the JCP?

Your pronouncements are getting old. Analyzing this from your (flawed) modern perspective is meaningless. You once made the preposterous claim that Condorcet methods were advanced to help the SDP. Do you remember that? For God's sake, shut up!

I did not make the claim that Condorcet was put forward by the SDP to benefit them, I was simply repeating what Max told me. Yes, I should've done my work, but I apologized. Although, the fact that Condorcet manipulates the way we count votes to benefit those at the bottom is still true.

The JCP, though, was a left-wing party. I did not claim it was the left-wing party. But the JCP did play a part in Atlasian politics, with a presence in the Presidency and Vice Presidency at one point or another for a decent period of time and had, at varying times, elected anywhere from 1-3 Senators. When the SDP joined the JCP, it became "the" left-wing party, but at the time, there wasn't really a single left-wing party that was all that powerful, we were, as an ideological group, getting slaughtered.

My decision to join the SDP and the JCP saved the left-wing of Atlasia from irrelevance in the face of the dominating RPP. I'm sorry you and other didn't come along with us, but that's the way the die rolls. Look back on the left-wing parties during my early months in Atlasia. The SDP, the JCP, the Horse Party. It was ludicrous. The Horse party was just a bunch of "loons" that eventually started the LNF. The SDP and the JCP were rivals for no reason. We unified from disunity.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Any party that can elect an idiotic hack like Lief is obviously too strong.

I won't let you insult him any longer.

Why not? He's less likable than his hero, Edwards, and is nothing more than a left-wing troll. I didn't know people were meant to take him seriously.

[Sewer]

Any party that can elect an idiotic hack like Lief is obviously too strong.

That's uncalled for.

[Alexander Hamilton]

So "the left" may be unified, but the center is screwed, and the right is just a train wreck. Unless this is fixed soon, this game is in serious danger.

[Scam of God]

So "the left" may be unified, but the center is screwed, and the right is just a train wreck. Unless this is fixed soon, this game is in serious danger.

Moreover, "the left" is not really unified - coalitions never are. The Social-Democrats dominate; the Populists are left in the lurch; the Left-Libertarians have no voice at all.

[Alexander Hamilton]

People I am ideologically similar to are scattered around five different parties. Where do I fit in? Where do people like me fit in?

[Marokai Backbeat]

So "the left" may be unified, but the center is screwed, and the right is just a train wreck. Unless this is fixed soon, this game is in serious danger.

What center? What in flying frak are you talking about? You don't base any of your pity parties in fact!

The DA has three elected Senators who are, by any measure, centrists. The fact that you do not believe them to be Senators isn't at all relevant. They are, in Atlasia, centrists.

Any party that can elect an idiotic hack like Lief is obviously too strong.

I won't let you insult him any longer.

Why not? He's less likable than his hero, Edwards, and is nothing more than a left-wing troll. I didn't know people were meant to take him seriously.

He's been a pretty good President, and even the DA can see this. They don't oppose him just because he's from another party, and that's something you need to learn.

People I am ideologically similar to are scattered around five different parties. Where do I fit in? Where do people like me fit in?

"People like you" fit in just fine in the RPP until you decided to grand-stand for attention and leave the party to form another party that has virtually identical goals just for the sake of being different.

[Alexander Hamilton]

So "the left" may be unified, but the center is screwed, and the right is just a train wreck. Unless this is fixed soon, this game is in serious danger.

Moreover, "the left" is not really unified - coalitions never are. The Social-Democrats dominate; the Populists are left in the lurch; the Left-Libertarians have no voice at all.

Precisely. The JCP was ready to endorse other candidates over one of their own due to social views (which they claim are irrelevant).

People like HappyWarrior are political opposites of people like Franzl. The Democratic Alliance is  a party that is not representative of the center, but a group of friends, which is why I can not join with Hashemite as leader. The populists and liberals don't mix well.

Left-libertarians and centrist liberals need a voice, and right now only the ARC has that but hopefully the party system is able to change.

[Alexander Hamilton]

So "the left" may be unified, but the center is screwed, and the right is just a train wreck. Unless this is fixed soon, this game is in serious danger.

What center? What in flying frak are you talking about? You don't base any of your pity parties in fact!

The DA has three elected Senators who are, by any measure, centrists. The fact that you do not believe them to be Senators isn't at all relevant. They are, in Atlasia, centrists.

Any party that can elect an idiotic hack like Lief is obviously too strong.

I won't let you insult him any longer.

Why not? He's less likable than his hero, Edwards, and is nothing more than a left-wing troll. I didn't know people were meant to take him seriously.

He's been a pretty good President, and even the DA can see this. They don't oppose him just because he's from another party, and that's something you need to learn.

People I am ideologically similar to are scattered around five different parties. Where do I fit in? Where do people like me fit in?

"People like you" fit in just fine in the RPP until you decided to grand-stand for attention and leave the party to form another party that has virtually identical goals just for the sake of being different.

The center... people like me, Einzige, NiK, bullmoose, sbane, Mr. Moderate, Franzl, afleitch, etc. The real Atlasian center. There is no unity. Notice the variety of parties those people are in.

I don't oppose Lief due to his party, I oppose Leaf due to his attitude around the forum. If I am to be judged on mine, why not Leaf?
I never fit in with the RPP and most recognize this.

[Rob]

I don't understand the hate- the Jesus Christ Party is a progressive organization dedicated to good government. If the party has had some success, this is because many Atlasians like what they see. Why would you want to fight that?

Sincerely,

Former Senator Rob (JCP-OR)

[Sewer]

Left-libertarians and centrist liberals need a voice, and right now only the LNF has that but hopefully the party system is able to change.

fixed

[Scam of God]

I don't understand the hate- the Jesus Christ Party is a progressive organization dedicated to good government. If the party has had some success, this is because many Atlasians like what they see.

Sincerely,

Former Senator Rob (JCP-OR)

Political hegemonies have a way of distorting debate and stifling innovation, even in the ideological areas they profess to champion. I argue that my programme of vastly reducing State subsidization in Big Business and promoting the use of desktop manufacturing would go a long way in reducing poverty and providing full employment, yet the JCP insists on indirectly redistributing wealth (and not real power - real, manufacturing power) through the State. It is clear we want the same goal; I simply want it more directly than you do. And the present power structure shuts me, and many others like me, totally out.

[Хahar 🤔]

Marokai, why did you not vote for bgwah/Meeker?

Because I didn't believe Bgwah was doing much as President and Xahar had brainwashed me into thinking of the JCP as our rivals, when we really had alot in common.

It wasn't until later that I realized alot of the SDP was founded or comprised of at one point or another, people who have silly age-old "he took my lunch money" problems with the JCP they can't get over.

Pah!

The SDP was created to fill a void in the left. Obviously, there was such a void, or it would not have grown so fast. The JCP was confined to its stagnant backwater, the Pacific. It was not the left-wing party until you made it so.

Stop pushing your revisionist history.

The JCP was a left-wing party then just as it is today, just more politically viable. There was no void in the left in any real way. The void in the left was created by people like Lewis, yourself, Earl, Al, etc. All people that simply have immature school-cafeteria problems with the JCP and refuse to work with them.

Many in the LNF today, still consist of that bunch. You're not a left-wing party, you are a left-wing "anti-bgwah" party.

Listen. It's clear you know not that of which you speak. The JCP was not a major party. It had no presence outside the Pacific. It had elected Friz and Everett to the Senate. Successful left-wing parties had existed without the JCP. Why on Earth would anyone join the JCP?

Your pronouncements are getting old. Analyzing this from your (flawed) modern perspective is meaningless. You once made the preposterous claim that Condorcet methods were advanced to help the SDP. Do you remember that? For God's sake, shut up!

I did not make the claim that Condorcet was put forward by the SDP to benefit them, I was simply repeating what Max told me. Yes, I should've done my work, but I apologized. Although, the fact that Condorcet manipulates the way we count votes to benefit those at the bottom is still true.

The JCP, though, was a left-wing party. I did not claim it was the left-wing party. But the JCP did play a part in Atlasian politics, with a presence in the Presidency and Vice Presidency at one point or another for a decent period of time and had, at varying times, elected anywhere from 1-3 Senators. When the SDP joined the JCP, it became "the" left-wing party, but at the time, there wasn't really a single left-wing party that was all that powerful, we were, as an ideological group, getting slaughtered.

My decision to join the SDP and the JCP saved the left-wing of Atlasia from irrelevance in the face of the dominating RPP. I'm sorry you and other didn't come along with us, but that's the way the die rolls. Look back on the left-wing parties during my early months in Atlasia. The SDP, the JCP, the Horse Party. It was ludicrous. The Horse party was just a bunch of "loons" that eventually started the LNF. The SDP and the JCP were rivals for no reason. We unified from disunity.

And you indict the whole Atlasian left for not joining the JCP in the summer of 2008? Let me explain something to you.

Imagine that, during the period in which the Southeast was an RPP fief, the regional Senate seat fell vacant. Consequently, AHDuke99 appointed an utter zombie, who never posted outside Atlasia and never posted in Atlasia, except to vote however Fluffy was voting. Then, suppose that a conservative-libertarian candidate decided to run for Senate, but did not join the RPP because he disliked this practice and disapproved of zombies. Suppose that the zombie Senator won, and proceeded to spend 4 more months doing nothing.

That is what the JCP did. The RPP would never at its peak have dreamed of doing that. It got to the point where one Senator-elect resigned immediately after being elected on the grounds that she would be a horrible Senator. And you blame us for this?

I don't understand the hate- the Jesus Christ Party is a progressive organization dedicated to good government. If the party has had some success, this is because many Atlasians like what they see. Why would you want to fight that?

Sincerely,

Former Senator Rob (JCP-OR)

Do you remember your immediate successor in the Senate?

He represented everything wrong with Atlasia.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Wasn't Friz an Ebowed sock account?

[Sewer]

Wasn't Friz an Ebowed sock account?

Friz is not a sock.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I don't understand the hate- the Jesus Christ Party is a progressive organization dedicated to good government. If the party has had some success, this is because many Atlasians like what they see. Why would you want to fight that?

Sincerely,

Former Senator Rob (JCP-OR)

What's baffling is how the blame is somehow placed on the JCP.

The LNF comes to form after the merging of the SDP and JCP, because they, for the most part, don't like Bgwah.

The DA doesn't want to associate with the right-wing and people like Hamilton because they've acted like utter fools for months, so they have friendly relationships with mature JCP members they're close to.

The ARC forms in a split from the RPP and right-wing in general, despite having almost identical positions.

And all of this, the result of it, is our fault? That has to be the single dumbest conclusion I've ever seen anyone reach here in Atlasia. It's utterly mind boggling.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I stopped acting like a fool last night, Marokai.

[Rob]

It is clear we want the same goal; I simply want it more directly than you do. And the present power structure shuts me, and many others like me, totally out.

You could join the JCP. We're a big tent.

[Alexander Hamilton]

It is clear we want the same goal; I simply want it more directly than you do. And the present power structure shuts me, and many others like me, totally out.

You could join the JCP. We're a big tent.

He left them a while ago because I started a party closer to his views. The JCP would never actually vote for him, simply ask for his vote and toss him aside.

[Scam of God]

I don't understand the hate- the Jesus Christ Party is a progressive organization dedicated to good government. If the party has had some success, this is because many Atlasians like what they see. Why would you want to fight that?

Sincerely,

Former Senator Rob (JCP-OR)

What's baffling is how the blame is somehow placed on the JCP.

The LNF comes to form after the merging of the SDP and JCP, because they, for the most part, don't like Bgwah.

The DA doesn't want to associate with the right-wing and people like Hamilton because they've acted like utter fools for months, so they have friendly relationships with mature JCP members they're close to.

The ARC forms in a split from the RPP and right-wing in general, despite having almost identical positions.

And all of this, the result of it, is our fault? That has to be the single dumbest conclusion I've ever seen anyone reach here in Atlasia. It's utterly mind boggling.

Why don't you talk about issues, Marokai? I don't care about personalities. I don't give a good Goddamn about personalities. My concern is totally in-game, and totally political: you stifle ideological discourse, and shoot yourself in the head every time you do so.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Marokai, why did you not vote for bgwah/Meeker?

Because I didn't believe Bgwah was doing much as President and Xahar had brainwashed me into thinking of the JCP as our rivals, when we really had alot in common.

It wasn't until later that I realized alot of the SDP was founded or comprised of at one point or another, people who have silly age-old "he took my lunch money" problems with the JCP they can't get over.

Pah!

The SDP was created to fill a void in the left. Obviously, there was such a void, or it would not have grown so fast. The JCP was confined to its stagnant backwater, the Pacific. It was not the left-wing party until you made it so.

Stop pushing your revisionist history.

The JCP was a left-wing party then just as it is today, just more politically viable. There was no void in the left in any real way. The void in the left was created by people like Lewis, yourself, Earl, Al, etc. All people that simply have immature school-cafeteria problems with the JCP and refuse to work with them.

Many in the LNF today, still consist of that bunch. You're not a left-wing party, you are a left-wing "anti-bgwah" party.

Listen. It's clear you know not that of which you speak. The JCP was not a major party. It had no presence outside the Pacific. It had elected Friz and Everett to the Senate. Successful left-wing parties had existed without the JCP. Why on Earth would anyone join the JCP?

Your pronouncements are getting old. Analyzing this from your (flawed) modern perspective is meaningless. You once made the preposterous claim that Condorcet methods were advanced to help the SDP. Do you remember that? For God's sake, shut up!

I did not make the claim that Condorcet was put forward by the SDP to benefit them, I was simply repeating what Max told me. Yes, I should've done my work, but I apologized. Although, the fact that Condorcet manipulates the way we count votes to benefit those at the bottom is still true.

The JCP, though, was a left-wing party. I did not claim it was the left-wing party. But the JCP did play a part in Atlasian politics, with a presence in the Presidency and Vice Presidency at one point or another for a decent period of time and had, at varying times, elected anywhere from 1-3 Senators. When the SDP joined the JCP, it became "the" left-wing party, but at the time, there wasn't really a single left-wing party that was all that powerful, we were, as an ideological group, getting slaughtered.

My decision to join the SDP and the JCP saved the left-wing of Atlasia from irrelevance in the face of the dominating RPP. I'm sorry you and other didn't come along with us, but that's the way the die rolls. Look back on the left-wing parties during my early months in Atlasia. The SDP, the JCP, the Horse Party. It was ludicrous. The Horse party was just a bunch of "loons" that eventually started the LNF. The SDP and the JCP were rivals for no reason. We unified from disunity.

And you indict the whole Atlasian left for not joining the JCP in the summer of 2008? Let me explain something to you.

Imagine that, during the period in which the Southeast was an RPP fief, the regional Senate seat fell vacant. Consequently, AHDuke99 appointed an utter zombie, who never posted outside Atlasia and never posted in Atlasia, except to vote however Fluffy was voting. Then, suppose that a conservative-libertarian candidate decided to run for Senate, but did not join the RPP because he disliked this practice and disapproved of zombies. Suppose that the zombie Senator won, and proceeded to spend 4 more months doing nothing.

That is what the JCP did. The RPP would never at its peak have dreamed of doing that. It got to the point where one Senator-elect resigned immediately after being elected on the grounds that she would be a horrible Senator. And you blame us for this?

I know what the JCP did, and I know for a fact that Bgwah regrets what happened there, but the JCP also gave you a chance by reaching out to you and appointing you to be Attorney General, a position in which you went down in flames after your absurd behavior with Benconstine. You didn't exactly give the JCP a high opinion of you after Bgwah gave you a shot.

Let's not, as you've done, just pretend that whole thing never happened.

[Alexander Hamilton]

This thread was started due to a disconnect in ideological alignment. You are correct in criticizing Marokai's flawed analysis, as is Xahar.

BTW, Rob, you need to be more active.

[Scam of God]

It is clear we want the same goal; I simply want it more directly than you do. And the present power structure shuts me, and many others like me, totally out.

You could join the JCP. We're a big tent.

Absolutely not, because I consider what you do to be totally counter-productive. I don't want to raise taxes and increase the scope of the State; I want to slash taxes and give workingmen the ability to own their own businesses through technological innovation and ending subsidization. That's the same goal, but funneled through an entirely alternate paradigm from what the JCP offers.

[Хahar 🤔]

Wasn't Friz an Ebowed sock account?

Friz is not a sock.

Funny that you would use the present tense.

I don't understand the hate- the Jesus Christ Party is a progressive organization dedicated to good government. If the party has had some success, this is because many Atlasians like what they see. Why would you want to fight that?

Sincerely,

Former Senator Rob (JCP-OR)

What's baffling is how the blame is somehow placed on the JCP.

The LNF comes to form after the merging of the SDP and JCP, because they, for the most part, don't like Bgwah.

The DA doesn't want to associate with the right-wing and people like Hamilton because they've acted like utter fools for months, so they have friendly relationships with mature JCP members they're close to.

The ARC forms in a split from the RPP and right-wing in general, despite having almost identical positions.

And all of this, the result of it, is our fault? That has to be the single dumbest conclusion I've ever seen anyone reach here in Atlasia. It's utterly mind boggling.

It's indubitably your fault. It's not necessarily the JCP's fault, but the point isn't to assign blame. The JCP is detrimental to Atlasia.

Marokai, why did you not vote for bgwah/Meeker?

Because I didn't believe Bgwah was doing much as President and Xahar had brainwashed me into thinking of the JCP as our rivals, when we really had alot in common.

It wasn't until later that I realized alot of the SDP was founded or comprised of at one point or another, people who have silly age-old "he took my lunch money" problems with the JCP they can't get over.

Pah!

The SDP was created to fill a void in the left. Obviously, there was such a void, or it would not have grown so fast. The JCP was confined to its stagnant backwater, the Pacific. It was not the left-wing party until you made it so.

Stop pushing your revisionist history.

The JCP was a left-wing party then just as it is today, just more politically viable. There was no void in the left in any real way. The void in the left was created by people like Lewis, yourself, Earl, Al, etc. All people that simply have immature school-cafeteria problems with the JCP and refuse to work with them.

Many in the LNF today, still consist of that bunch. You're not a left-wing party, you are a left-wing "anti-bgwah" party.

Listen. It's clear you know not that of which you speak. The JCP was not a major party. It had no presence outside the Pacific. It had elected Friz and Everett to the Senate. Successful left-wing parties had existed without the JCP. Why on Earth would anyone join the JCP?

Your pronouncements are getting old. Analyzing this from your (flawed) modern perspective is meaningless. You once made the preposterous claim that Condorcet methods were advanced to help the SDP. Do you remember that? For God's sake, shut up!

I did not make the claim that Condorcet was put forward by the SDP to benefit them, I was simply repeating what Max told me. Yes, I should've done my work, but I apologized. Although, the fact that Condorcet manipulates the way we count votes to benefit those at the bottom is still true.

The JCP, though, was a left-wing party. I did not claim it was the left-wing party. But the JCP did play a part in Atlasian politics, with a presence in the Presidency and Vice Presidency at one point or another for a decent period of time and had, at varying times, elected anywhere from 1-3 Senators. When the SDP joined the JCP, it became "the" left-wing party, but at the time, there wasn't really a single left-wing party that was all that powerful, we were, as an ideological group, getting slaughtered.

My decision to join the SDP and the JCP saved the left-wing of Atlasia from irrelevance in the face of the dominating RPP. I'm sorry you and other didn't come along with us, but that's the way the die rolls. Look back on the left-wing parties during my early months in Atlasia. The SDP, the JCP, the Horse Party. It was ludicrous. The Horse party was just a bunch of "loons" that eventually started the LNF. The SDP and the JCP were rivals for no reason. We unified from disunity.

And you indict the whole Atlasian left for not joining the JCP in the summer of 2008? Let me explain something to you.

Imagine that, during the period in which the Southeast was an RPP fief, the regional Senate seat fell vacant. Consequently, AHDuke99 appointed an utter zombie, who never posted outside Atlasia and never posted in Atlasia, except to vote however Fluffy was voting. Then, suppose that a conservative-libertarian candidate decided to run for Senate, but did not join the RPP because he disliked this practice and disapproved of zombies. Suppose that the zombie Senator won, and proceeded to spend 4 more months doing nothing.

That is what the JCP did. The RPP would never at its peak have dreamed of doing that. It got to the point where one Senator-elect resigned immediately after being elected on the grounds that she would be a horrible Senator. And you blame us for this?

I know what the JCP did, and I know for a fact that Bgwah regrets what happened there, but the JCP also gave you a chance by reaching out to you and appointing you to be Attorney General, a position in which you went down in flames after your absurd behavior with Benconstine. You didn't exactly give the JCP a high opinion of you after Bgwah gave you a shot.

Let's not, as you've done, just pretend that whole thing never happened.

Regrets? Regrets? I haven't heard them.

I am sorry that I wasted the chance that our Lord and Saviour so graciously deigned to offer me. I promise not to let his grace go to waste ever again, should he be so forgiving as to offer to me another chance of which I am profoundly unworthy.

[Smid]

It reminds me a little of Zimbabwe... there is an opposition, there are elections, but realistically, only one party is going to win. The difference is that Zimbabwe's elections aren't free and fair, but the result is still the same.