COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[KaiserDave]

Very proud of the resilience and vigilant efforts of my city

[KaiserDave]

Called it: https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/covid-19-studies-many-recovered-patients-have-no-or-very-low-antibody-counts-risking-reinfections

This non peered review study from clickbait Thailand Medical News is clearly the gold standard. Well done, excellent science fact. Don't be so quick to proliferate fake news, this is the second time

[KaiserDave]

Called it: https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/covid-19-studies-many-recovered-patients-have-no-or-very-low-antibody-counts-risking-reinfections

This non peered review study from clickbait Thailand Medical News is clearly the gold standard. Well done, excellent science fact.

Also, antibodies are not even close to the only immunity mechanism the body has anyhow.

But it's the measurement being used to reopen the economies.

And the "study" might as well have been published in the Onion

[KaiserDave]

Why does anyone think that cases or deaths are going to start suddenly steeply declining any time some?  There’s been no evidence of this in the US, and no evidence in countries that started their lockdowns sooner like Italy.

The lockdowns have stopped the exponential growth of the virus.  But they haven’t slowed it to the point where it is moving toward eradication.  In places where we have seen slow but significant declines, like Italy and NYC, it is likely because those places have such a high proportion infected that they are headed toward herd immunity.

How is Sweden doing with their lockd....oh, wait.

Since you mention it,
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/how-sweden-and-norway-handled-coronavirus-differently-2020-4%3famp

Not very good, thank you very much.
Now would you prefer to be paid in Rubles or Bitcoin for your services to the Russian government today?

Well if I could dispute this, yes there have been higher deaths but they've still flattened the curve without nearly the amount of other consequences.

It's not a total disaster, and while not necessarily applicable in austerity ridden USA, is still interesting.

[KaiserDave]

https://twitter.com/vote4robgill/status/1255922426120146947

That's what a coup looks like

[KaiserDave]

WHO says there's 'no evidence' recovered coronavirus patients won't get reinfected

This WHO statement from weeks ago has been thoroughly discredited, as has every other early panicked headline about reinfection.

Every real shred of evidence (including the Science article posted in this thread earlier today) overwhelmingly supports practically universal immunity.

As of course, does the basic fact that we have 4.5 million confirmed infections and zero confirmed examples of reinfection; imagine what we’d say if a vaccine trial revealed zero infections among the first 4.5 million trials.

5 USS Roosevelt Sailors Test Positive For COVID-19, Again

These have happened before, and they've been false positives.

[KaiserDave]

U. of Cambridge scraps face-to-face lectures for entire 2020-21 academic year.

Wherever you are in the debate

This is premature

However, I think this is just them trying to get ahead and then go back on it later.

[KaiserDave]

U. of Cambridge scraps face-to-face lectures for entire 2020-21 academic year.

Wherever you are in the debate

This is premature

However, I think this is just them trying to get ahead and then go back on it later.

Most colleges have already started to make plans for what they're going to do some more scrapping in-person lectures for the entire year some are making the semester shorter and less people in a classroom some are doing hybrid

I don't agree with doing away with in person classes all the way till June of 2021, I think that's an overreaction and I think its premature to say so.

[KaiserDave]

I'll never understand why governors think it's okay to reopen now.

Also, I'm taking any information Oxford says with a truckload of salt. Wasn't their vaccine reported not to work?

We need to start reopening now. The damage of perpetual lockdown is not worth it.

[KaiserDave]

I'll never understand why governors think it's okay to reopen now.

Also, I'm taking any information Oxford says with a truckload of salt. Wasn't their vaccine reported not to work?

We need to start reopening now. The damage of perpetual lockdown is not worth it.

I keep seeing "opening up now" proponents justify their position by presenting the choice as "open now" or "lockdown forever". It's such a blatantly stupid argument that all it accomplished is discrediting those pushing it.

What do epidemiologists say? What does WHO say? Is there a consensus among people who actually have a record of knowing what their talking about?

I'm only referring to people here who have called for lockdowns lasting a period of a few years. That's not tenable, and I'm skeptical of that even if WHO experts were to recommend it.

I'm not an open up everything now proponent either, I just supporting cautiously reopening where we can.

Gosh

[KaiserDave]

I'll never understand why governors think it's okay to reopen now.

Also, I'm taking any information Oxford says with a truckload of salt. Wasn't their vaccine reported not to work?

We need to start reopening now. The damage of perpetual lockdown is not worth it.

I keep seeing "opening up now" proponents justify their position by presenting the choice as "open now" or "lockdown forever". It's such a blatantly stupid argument that all it accomplished is discrediting those pushing it.

What do epidemiologists say? What does WHO say? Is there a consensus among people who actually have a record of knowing what their talking about?

I'm only referring to people here who have called for lockdowns lasting a period of a few years. That's not tenable, and I'm skeptical of that even if WHO experts were to recommend it.

I'm not an open up everything now proponent either, I just supporting cautiously reopening where we can.

Gosh

Ohio took your approach and just saw its largest increase in cases.

Umm, where is that information?

Edit: Furthermore case increase after reopening don't come in big bunches, it's over time. Correlation is not causation

[KaiserDave]

I'll never understand why governors think it's okay to reopen now.

Also, I'm taking any information Oxford says with a truckload of salt. Wasn't their vaccine reported not to work?

We need to start reopening now. The damage of perpetual lockdown is not worth it.

Sure, but without widespread contact tracing, mask orders, and social distancing being enforced in public spaces, reopening would make things worse.

I don't even disagree with you.

Although I do not entirely believe in mandatory mask orders.

[KaiserDave]

I'll never understand why governors think it's okay to reopen now.

Also, I'm taking any information Oxford says with a truckload of salt. Wasn't their vaccine reported not to work?

We need to start reopening now. The damage of perpetual lockdown is not worth it.

Sure, but without widespread contact tracing, mask orders, and social distancing being enforced in public spaces, reopening would make things worse.

I don't even disagree with you.

Although I do not entirely believe in mandatory mask orders.

Here’s the thing, I don’t want to have mask orders, nobody wants that except for a few masochists. However, it has become apparent that Americans are not going to wear masks unless they are made to do so. Due to our anti-intellectual culture, it seems when Americans are kindly asked to wear a mask, they instead do the opposite because they can (like little children) I don’t want to treat Americans like little children, but they are acting like such and give me no choice but to support mandatory mask orders.
Maybe where you live, people are wearing masks, but they aren’t here these days, even with our governor kindly advising people to wear masks.
 If we were a cohesive country with a populace that wore masks because it makes sense, we wouldn’t need this, but we aren’t.

I still oppose mandatory mask orders on principle.

[KaiserDave]

Trump has stopped taking hydroxychloroquine btw:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-he-s-no-longer-taking-hydroxychloroquine-n1214301

I wish he'd stop talking at all. It would save lives.

Perhaps including his own

[KaiserDave]

A bit concerning how fast people will embrace authoritarianism.....


I support mask wearing, but prison time for violators? Lordy.

[KaiserDave]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

I really really hope this is already the case for public transport as well.

If yes, normal, sane decision.

If people can't be bothered to wear a thin piece of fabric for a short part of their day in certain spaces, I guess they can just use their own cars and order stuff online.

I continue to remain wary of mask mandates emanating from government, especially if they come attached with penalties of some kind. And as we move into summer, I am beginning to wonder whether or not they will truly be a permanent fixture of society until there is a vaccine.

I mean, would it really be that bad wearing a really thin mask while you're in the grocery store or in public transit?

That's basically where people wear them here, and it's not an issue.

Plus, it's not really jeopardizing anyone's right to free movement etc., it's just requiring people to have a 40 cent mask on in a few places lol

I've said before that I don't have an inherent problem with mask-wearing in itself. I'm required to wear one on my job, and I wear them whenever I go out in public. What I have a problem is with government mandating their use, particularly with fines or penalties attached. I've also expressed my belief that businesses should be allowed to require their customers to don them while on their premises.

Agreed entirely.

[KaiserDave]

I don't applaud this, but quarantine fatigue has entirely set in in NYC, people are out, about, oftentimes without masks (though I'd say masks are still in the majority). While it's not advisable from a health standpoint, I can say I'm quite sure it will be impossible to reinstate restrictions on the same scale as March and April. People are out, and they're gonna stay out.

[KaiserDave]

Death numbers continue to improve, but god those cases. I think it's clear that the AZ/TX/FL case pumps are much more younger than New York for instance.

[KaiserDave]

Im not as extreme as Trump on this but remote learning is devastating, especially for elementary and middle schoolers, it has to end. For colleges sure I get it, but nowhere else.

[KaiserDave]

Children are much more likely to die in a car accident on their way to school than from covid.

Even if you deliberately infect them?

Eh, this I'm pretty ambivalent about.  I definitely think all deliberate infections should be voluntary.  And so I'm uneasy about giving parents the right to decide this for a child.  In general, I think parents have way too many rights over thing that determine their children's future.

Children are much more likely to die in a car accident on their way to school than from covid.

Even if you deliberately infect them?

 He's making baseless assumptions with data he doesn't even understand.

And just a side note but children are less likely to die in car accidents if they wear seatbelts, or use car-seats, their parents or other parties don't speed, or drive distracted, or drive intoxicated. You know like follow common sense safety and preventative measures.

You're comparing wearing a seat belt with canceling a child's education?

Worth noting that moving classes online isn't "cancelling a child's education". 

Sure, it's not ideal and there are plenty of kiddos out there (even big kiddos like myself) who learn much better in-person as opposed to online, but it's not as though schools are outright cancelling all classes -- at least to my knowledge. 

For elementary schoolers and for many middle schoolers, as well as for those many without internet remote learning is essentially canceling class