COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[politicallefty]

Are you actually celebrating that?

Yes. I am. Like millions of other people.

Yes, and they are called anti-vaxxers. I suppose it's fun that you get some strange satisfaction when you don't have any children of your own that are under 12. I always hesitate to use the ignore button, but it's clear you're a lunatic only concerned about yourself.

[politicallefty]

Yeah, I think I'm done with this topic. This is legitimately the stupid country and there will be a price to pay for that. It's clear that some on the so-called left are just as bad as those on the right. Wearing a f-cking mask in a grocery store isn't harming anyone. Vaccines and masks together have the potential to crush this virus, but so many want to relinquish some of our best tools. What's going to start happening is that a significant part of the population is going to start staying home again because they're legitimately freaked out. It may be that the Delta variant isn't enough to send vaccinated people to the hospital for the most part, but allowing this virus to run rampant across the population is both reckless and dangerous.

[politicallefty]

Yeah, I think I'm done with this topic. This is legitimately the stupid country and there will be a price to pay for that. It's clear that some on the so-called left are just as bad as those on the right. Wearing a f-cking mask in a grocery store isn't harming anyone. Vaccines and masks together have the potential to crush this virus, but so many want to relinquish some of our best tools. What's going to start happening is that a significant part of the population is going to start staying home again because they're legitimately freaked out. It may be that the Delta variant isn't enough to send vaccinated people to the hospital for the most part, but allowing this virus to run rampant across the population is both reckless and dangerous.

The left including probably a majority of the thread want vaccine mandates. The right does not. So stop saying they are the same. And quit blaming vaccinated folks for allowing this virus to run rampant when the transmission is from unvaccinated folks.

As I said, I was going to try to avoid this topic, but the new CDC recommendations brought me back and I feel the need to respond. I was noting people like Bandit that seem to be celebrating that some states are prohibiting mask mandates in schools when people under 12 aren't even eligible to be vaccinated yet. I don't even know what to say to that. I would be afraid to send my <12 year old to school in one of those states. I want to schools to be open, but safely. That means masks and socially distancing for K-12, as the CDC now recommends. (I'm also supportive of vaccine passports, as I have been for a very long time. Those that aren't vaccinated should be prohibited from most societal functions.)

I'm not blaming the vaccinated. I am part of the majority on that. It's been three months to the day since I got my second dose and I'm glad. Otherwise I wouldn't have gone out to eat recently. But the day the CDC said that masks weren't necessary for the vaccinated changed everything. I was in a Walmart in early May and it was nearly 100% masking. One month later it was about 20%. The vaccination rate was certainly not 80%. Those of us that are vaccinated still have to take some precautions. No more lockdowns. Just masks and basic social distancing in places with strangers. The danger isn't just the Delta variant, it's what it might mutate into with enough exposure.

[politicallefty]

I know I said I wasn't going to post here, but I feel I must for the first time in awhile. My trust in the vaccines has not wavered, but my trust in the American medical establishment as a whole is extremely low. The CDC is all over the place and the FDA seems to be even worse. I still trust certain individuals, but that is it.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more protest from the pro-vax, pro-choice progressive left demanding more vaccine freedom, in the form of being able to choose their type of vaccine, choose to get booster, choose to vaccinate their children, etc.   There is certainly much more scientific evidence in favor of these positions than those of the anti-vax right.

We do have some of that already. You can choose what vaccine you want. If you don't want a particular vaccine, you can go somewhere else. When I set up my first appointment, I called and asked what vaccine they had. I wanted either the Pfizer or Moderna, but not the J&J. I would've cancelled if it wasn't what I wanted to hear. However, most online resources then and now tell you what vaccines are being offered.

I agree that boosters should be offered to those that want them. However, I do think we need to wait for final approval for those under 12. I would go one step further than you and say that anyone 12+ should be able to get the vaccine, regardless of parental consent/approval. The line between parental consent/approval and the right of bodily autonomy for children is a fine line, but vaccines should always be encouraged in every way possible. A 12-year-old may not be able to consent to major surgery, but they should have the right to accept a vaccination.

[politicallefty]

I agree with this as well. From what I can gather, the Moderna vaccine doesn't have any meaningful decline in protection so far, and neither does Johnson & Johnson. Vulnerable people like the elderly may need boosters just to be safe, but healthy people that aren't at risk probably don't, unless they just want the added protection in the case of J&J due to its somewhat weaker protection. That seems to be the consensus on those two, from what I can gather.

The information regarding Pfizer on the other hand is a complete disaster. We have no idea what's wrong with it, why its immunity wanes, whether or not the booster immunity will wane just as fast, and we don't even know if only the protection against breakthrough cases wanes or if its protection against severe illnesses wane too. I've made my opinion clear on how I feel about wasting more credibility on prioritizing boosters when we still need to vaccinate all of the country's children and most of the third world. However, if Pfizer really is weak enough to put everybody who received it at risk again, then we have a right to know that. I got the Pfizer vaccine, and I want to know if I'm safe without a booster and I also want to know if these boosters are going to be a perpetual, endless thing, because if that's the case then I just want to receive the Moderna or J&J instead, so I need to know if that's safe too. Point being, I have the overwhelming feeling that we're not getting straight information and I find it frustrating that they can't just be straightforward about these things.

That's not what I meant. The Pfizer vaccine is the most studied amongst all the vaccines. Pfizer literally had an agreement with Israel that entailed studying how the vaccine would work. The J&J vaccine is the real black sheep amongst the big 3 offered here in the states. I heard one doctor say that this should have ultimately been released as a 3-series shot. I had Pfizer as well, btw. I had my second shot in late April. I'm perfectly happy with that. I wouldn't have preferred the J&J.

We do have some of that already. You can choose what vaccine you want. If you don't want a particular vaccine, you can go somewhere else.

Congratulations, you're now using the exact same language anti-abortion activists are using to validate restrictive laws.

If you have to use time and money (that you likely don't have) to get something, then you don't have a choice.

That wasn't my point at all. Maybe it was easier for me on account of having multiple places available nearby. I got my Pfizer vaccine at a Walgreens on an intersection around 10 minutes away from where I live. Less than a quarter mile down the road was a Rite-Aid that offered Moderna. About a mile or so further was Walmart that offered both Moderna and J&J. I took the quickest appointment back when you had to basically fight for them. For reference, I live in pretty plain suburbia.

[politicallefty]

We'd be getting through this easily if a significant portion of the country wasn't downright dumb-f-ck stupid. Unfortunately, that's where we are. I think we need to reprioritize the unvaccinated to the back of the line in terms of medical care.

I'm pro-vaccine and I'm also pro-mask, but I'm not pro-lockdown. If we want to defeat the virus or at least beat it down, we need to use every tool we have. The easiest tools are vaccines and masks. Even if it's not masks everywhere, at least as much as possible. At least wear them when you're out shopping, like at the grocery store. Even the current Delta variant is still running rampant right now.

[politicallefty]

Its time to do what we should have done in March 2020.. let the virus run its course!

Our healthcare system would've collapsed many times over with millions dead. Would that have made you happier? A good portion of the country would've been scared sh-tless to go out. Do you really think that would've been an improvement?

We have measures that work right now. We have vaccines and we have masks. We will need both to get through this winter as a society. We don't need to do lockdowns again. Even social distancing isn't really necessary with the other measures in place. If everyone got vaccinated and wore their masks right now, we'd massively accelerate out way out of the pandemic once and for all.

[politicallefty]

Quite a bit of medical jargon that I'm too lazy to repeat here, but it all boiled down to "this is a serious matter, but there's a fine line between justifiable concern and sensational panic."

I have a friend of mine fighting off a breakthrough case right now.  She went to a party where she was exposed to a girl who (a) was experiencing symptoms and (b) knew that she could potentially be positive, but this girl attended the party anyway because she was "tired of talking about COVID".  

Now most folks aren't this brazen or inconsiderate, but just be smart and be responsible -- vaccinated or not.

I've been reading a lot of conflicting reports. Some are saying that South Africa is faring better than expected. However, others studies are saying there's no evidence Omicron is any less severe than previous variants. I think what we do know for sure is that Omicron is far more infectious than previous variants. It seems to me that even if we're fortunate in having a less virulent variant (which  is too early to say one way or the other), the biggest problems are the substantial increase in infectiousness and serious decrease in effectiveness of the vaccine prior to being boosted. For example, if the new variant were somehow 25% less severe than the previous, it wouldn't do us much good if the new variant was even just twice as infectious. Those are random numbers, but the fact we know is that infectiousness is significantly higher. I'd say the primary worry, apart from everything else we've been worrying about, is that the hospitals will be completely overrun. That's been the scariest thing in my view since the start of the pandemic. Early on, the thought of not nearly enough ventilators left me with dread. A completely overrun healthcare system affects everyone.

I got my booster just before Thanksgiving, almost seven months after my second dose (I've stuck with Pfizer all the way). What I've been reading is that, for those of us with the mRNA vaccines, effectiveness of the vaccine after the second dose goes down rapidly. It seems to me like the CDC is either behind or inept. If the second dose loses most of its effectiveness after 4-5 months, we're in big trouble if the waiting period is 6 months for boosting after the second dose. On the other hand, boosters haven't been available for that long overall. We have no idea how long boosted immunity lasts against Omicron. So far, they're holding up well and that is very good news, but we don't know what it looks like six months from now.

[politicallefty]

This has to be the most self-centred population in recent history. It's a good thing most of you weren't alive during WWII or we would almost certainly have lost. It's no wonder this country is fracturing as it is. There is no common cause or common sacrifice anymore. It's all about "me", "me", and "me'. Being forced to wear a mask in a grocery store? That's apparently the new oppression. That is despite the fact that one lives in the United States, where one is not oppressed.

But hey, let's all try to get this virus transmitted across the population as quickly as possible. That's what most of you want. Obviously, mitigation efforts are too oppressive for some people. I honestly say "f-ck you" to those that think a mask somehow inhibits a trip the grocery store. I have no respect for those that think only of themselves.

[politicallefty]

I'm okay using my mask in grocery stores and other indoor public places like that. It doesn't bother me. It's only a facial covering. I still see many people with them. I haven't even had a cold in at two years or so, so I'm fine. Even vaccinated and boosted, I know I still might get it (or I might have already). I prefer to not get sick at all, so I'm sticking with the mask in most places. It's not foolproof, of course, but mitigation isn't a bad idea.

[politicallefty]

Just remember: it was just the flu that has killed over a million Americans in two years (and counting). I'd ask people to look at those numbers and reflect, but many won't. Wearing a mask is apparently the most disruptive thing to happen and has been too much of an inconvenience for many. That doesn't take into account the most important factor for most: me, myself, and I. How dare anyone encroach upon that most important factor?!

[politicallefty]

I’m doing it out of concern for my grandmother.

Do you guys have people in your lives you wish to keep around as long as possible?

Your mentality in doing your best to avoid getting others sick is one that many more should have, even if doesn't mean transmitting a fatal or otherwise severe illness.

If there's anything the past 2.5 years has taught me, it's that so many people are incredibly ignorant and/or inconsiderate. It seems to be a very prevalent mindset in this country. It's like the people that go to work sick (when they actually have sick days) and get others around them sick. That is a very common mindset in this country. But it's not just that. Many people seem to have no issue going out in public when they're sick and getting others sick in the process.

Ukraine is a far more pertinent issue these days than COVID, and the COVID thread is still stickied. Either both should be or neither.

I see 514 pages of the war stickied in International General Discussion.

[politicallefty]

The Ukraine thread on this forum which was 30 something pages was unstickied, but the international COVID thread is still stickied as well. I had COVID two weeks ago, no big deal, just a flu. Time to move on.

It doesn't make much sense to have a separate thread for Ukraine in this forum.

I don't want the flu either. Hell, I don't even want a cold. I don't like getting sick. I thought that was sort of common sense.

I am social media friends with a woman who recently tested positive alongside her husband (but not her toddler). They are experiencing symptoms. A day after their positive test, they took their child to get a haircut. No masks on any of them, and the woman cutting the kids hair was older.

Total idiocy, pure selfishness, and a complete disregard for human life.

She's a Republican, by the way.

You probably didn't need to include the last sentence. I pretty much assumed as much. But like I said above, it's not even just the risk of fatal illness. Even if I have a cold, I don't try to go out and about and spread my germs. It is a pretty awful mentality. It goes back to the toxic hyper-individualism that I've commented on before. It's all about me, myself, and I. A minor inconvenience to benefit others can't be tolerated by some.

[politicallefty]

Okay, so wear your mask forever. No one is stopping you. Leave the rest of us alone.

That isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying there is a time and a place for masks. People like you seem to think it's the most egregious violation of human rights ever.

You probably didn't need to include the last sentence. I pretty much assumed as much. But like I said above, it's not even just the risk of fatal illness. Even if I have a cold, I don't try to go out and about and spread my germs. It is a pretty awful mentality. It goes back to the toxic hyper-individualism that I've commented on before. It's all about me, myself, and I. A minor inconvenience to benefit others can't be tolerated by some.

How far does one take this? For example I am a hideously scruffy bastard who has probably caused all kinds of sickness in others via mere walking around in public due to the shocking state of my appearance. Should I change the way I look for the benefit of others? Should I just not go out in public at all? It's quite a puzzle.

I would say that if you know you're sick and feel like sh-t, it's probably a good idea to wear a mask in public so you don't infect others. If you think you might be sick, err on the side of caution and prevention.

[politicallefty]

Many school districts increased their virtual learning option. Hoffifying trend!

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-07-23/online-schooling-is-the-bad-pandemic-idea-that-refuses-to-die

Another reason to #terminatefauci

Fire a man who is already retiring because schools are making bad decisions independent of him. jimmie logic at work.

I don't put much stock in someone who calls themself "Mask burner" or the even worse predecessor "Breathe the omicron". What about not getting COVID, especially the prospect of getting long COVID? Who cares, right? Wearing a facial covering is fascism (or maybe communism or socialism) and quite literally the worst thing I've ever had to deal with in my entire life!

[politicallefty]

If there's one place where mask mandates are understandable, it's a hospital.

Absolutely.

If there's one lesson we should learn from the pandemic, it's that if you're sick and you have to be around others, you should wear a mask. It's common courtesy and helps reduce the possibility of getting others sick.

https://www.wxyz.com/news/macomb-county-school-district-closes-friday-due-to-spike-in-illnesses

schools are already being closed. Ugh.. the fights after winter break over school closures will be insane again.

sigh.

I think it's policy almost everywhere to close schools when you reach a certain rate of illness and people not showing up to class.

[politicallefty]

I can agree with not going out in public, especially around other people, if you are SICK.

Perhaps I am over reacting, but I do suspect at least one major teachers union will push for closed schools after the winter break.

I'm glad we agree on the first part. And if you have to go out and be around others when you are sick (or suspect that you are), you should absolutely wear a mask.

I do think you are overreacting as to schools. We don't need to be closing schools on a preemptive or widespread basis. Kids do need to be in school. However, if you have 20% of the school out sick at a time, it isn't feasible to keep them open with that rate of absence. Winter break is coming up though, so perhaps that may make a difference. (On the other hand, things could end up being much worst once everyone returns in January.)

I support masking as conditions warrant and we always know this is the worst time of year for infectious respiratory viruses. We have three running around all at once and unfortunately vaccine uptake is quite poor. I know you have an irrational hatred of masking, but it is one of the best tools we have when large portions of the population remain unvaccinated for the current viral strains running rampant (and not just COVID now). If we can't stop the spread of disease, we should at least attempt to mitigate it.

[politicallefty]

Bruh who even cares about COVID anymore it’s been 3 years no one wears masks anymore except the crazies and geezers

Japan full of crazies and geezers confirmed

Certainly better than coughing and sneezing on everything in sight. I'd certainly put more faith in the average Japanese citizen than Red State America. There's probably a 15-20 year differential in life expectancy now.

[politicallefty]

Bruh who even cares about COVID anymore it’s been 3 years no one wears masks anymore except the crazies and geezers

Japan full of crazies and geezers confirmed

Certainly better than coughing and sneezing on everything in sight. I'd certainly put more faith in the average Japanese citizen than Red State America. There's probably a 15-20 year differential in life expectancy now.

It’s really funny when one nerd is wearing a cloth mask around a crowd of people who rightfully don’t feel a need to … but an N-95 or you’re just virtue signaling.  And no one cares about those virtue signals anymore.

Of course not. But no one in this goddamn country cares about anyone else anymore. People in this country regularly go to work or out in public highly contagious and spreading every infection they can. Maybe it's just me, but I don't like to get to sick and I'd rather everyone keep their germs away as much as possible whenever they can.