This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[CumbrianLefty]

Meh, about time we learned to fight a bit dirty IMO. And besides, Modi *is* bad.

[Blair]

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/06/andy-burnham-i-m-prepared-go-back-something-different

[Cassius]

Good luck to him, but I suspect the serious job that being leader of the opposition is will be rather more of a challenge than the kid gloves paddling pool of the metro mayoralty.

[Blair]

Good luck to him, but I suspect the serious job that being leader of the opposition is will be rather more of a challenge than the kid gloves paddling pool of the metro mayoralty.

Yes as much as I like Burnham and as impressive as the ward results where in Manchester there’s a weird tendency to see Manchester as not being a relatively safe Labour city.

If he could govern the shower that is Liverpool though I’d make him Leader tomorrow!

[Cassius]

Good luck to him, but I suspect the serious job that being leader of the opposition is will be rather more of a challenge than the kid gloves paddling pool of the metro mayoralty.

Yes as much as I like Burnham and as impressive as the ward results where in Manchester there’s a weird tendency to see Manchester as not being a relatively safe Labour city.

If he could govern the shower that is Liverpool though I’d make him Leader tomorrow!

Agreed, and I also think the gaping lacuna in his argument that people are tuning into the concept of metro mayors is the paltry turnout in all the contests, including his own, which raises pretty serious questions about the extent to which he is actually widely popular or not. For what it’s worth I think he’d be a better leader than Starmer simply because he evinces more personality, but I’d not be surprised if Labour are in exactly the same position in a year and a half under a Burnham leadership.

Also, here’s an amusingly similar NS interview with him from 2015, which really just highlights how the more things change, the more they stay the same:

https://www.newstatesman.com/staggers/2015/06/andy-burnham-interview-im-not-part-crowd

[Blair]

The briefing about a leadership challenge seems particularly erratic this morning; the Times reporting ‘allies’ of Rayner are preparing for it- she’s issued a half refusal.

I still don’t think a challenge would happen for the reason that whoever challenges Keir is likely to lose but the Labour Party never makes good decision on a weekend after an election.

If Angela does challenge and win Keir deserves it purely for the stupid attempt to try and sack her. 

[OSR stands with Israel]

Meh, about time we learned to fight a bit dirty IMO. And besides, Modi *is* bad.

If you want Labour to lose support among Indian voters, then this is exactly what bs like this will do

[CumbrianLefty]

To claim that "Burnham (or indeed any other plausible leader) would end up doing no better than Starmer" does seem to rather presuppose that the latter's presently distinctly poor position is simply an act of God which any mere human would be powerless to alter. In reality, a lot of it is down to him and (even more importantly) his team making a succession of unforced errors since the start of the year. And that is fundamentally caused by his being a not terribly "political" person - sold as an actual plus point when he stood for leader (and understandably so given the poisonous factionalism that had run through the party since 2015, and to a degree a full decade before that) it was always likely to prove a weakness if he didn't choose well around him. And so it has come to pass.

In retrospect, I also think the widespread praise he got for his treatment of Corbyn went to his head somewhat (the warning sign that much of the approval for it came from Tories who were never likely to vote Labour went unheeded) and further encouraged an already existing mentality amongst those around him that endlessly and crudely bashing the left was all that he needed to do to win power.

Well at least he is assembling a new team now. Whilst there seems to be some last minute optimism about Labour's chances today, a Tory gain still appears most likely. And it will put Starmer in the last chance saloon, he had better recognise that if he still hopes to turn things around.

[Conservatopia]

I wonder if there could be a (symbolic) confidence vote called rather than a full blown election?  That is the route the anti-Corbyn plotters went down.

[Blair]

I wonder if there could be a (symbolic) confidence vote called rather than a full blown election?  That is the route the anti-Corbyn plotters went down.

Would be surprised... even in a secret ballot Keir would most likely win. The ballot against Corbyn was to show the weight of the opposition- it’s normally a sign of a losing operation too (It was floated back in 2010 against Brown and then against Ed in 2014- it’s basically done when you know you can’t win)

[Blair]

Baffling coverage on radio 4 where they’ve got Dianne Abbott and Peter Mandelson arguing and asking both why the Labour Party is so awful…imagine what it would be like if Kim lost

[Statilius the Epicurean]

The hard left ballsed up tremendously in trying to elevate Batley as make or break for Starmer. Will be interesting to see the fallout.

[Cassius]

LABOUR IS BACK with fewer votes than in 2019!!!!!

[afleitch]

The hard left ballsed up tremendously in trying to elevate Batley as make or break for Starmer. Will be interesting to see the fallout.

Oh it's death by a thousand cuts for Starmer. Nothing at all has changed with this result, if nothing changes about Starmer's leadership.

[CumbrianLefty]

Baffling coverage on radio 4 where they’ve got Dianne Abbott and Peter Mandelson arguing and asking both why the Labour Party is so awful…imagine what it would be like if Kim lost

He in particular really should be consigned to the outer darkness forever.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

The hard left ballsed up tremendously in trying to elevate Batley as make or break for Starmer. Will be interesting to see the fallout.

Oh it's death by a thousand cuts for Starmer. Nothing at all has changed with this result, if nothing changes about Starmer's leadership.

He has the space to now with his new team. We'll see what happens. Won't be any leadership challenge in the offing for a while now at least.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

The hard left ballsed up tremendously in trying to elevate Batley as make or break for Starmer. Will be interesting to see the fallout.

Oh it's death by a thousand cuts for Starmer. Nothing at all has changed with this result, if nothing changes about Starmer's leadership.

It's unclear to me where this apocalyptic rhetoric is coming from. Keir Starmer isn't popular but saying that he's unpopular wouldn't accurate either. He's basically anonymous. You can say that this represents a failure of leadership on his part but it's also why Starmer could easily hit a reset button.

[CumbrianLefty]

It would be nice if right wing outriders like Ben Bradshaw would just shut up, though - Starmer isn't going to use a narrow Labour hold to wreak vengeance on his "disloyal enemies" and nor should he. Instead, he should use this reprieve to practice proper "big tent" internal politics.

[S019]

Keir Starmer has written a pretty good op-ed in the Guardian, where he discusses the by-election campaign, and also makes a broader point about opposing divisiveness and division. He also does offer a vision of what he believes the party should be. In my opinion, there's quite a lot of potential here, he just needs to put it into action: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/02/keir-starmer-labour-byelection-politics-kim-leadbeater

[Blair]

I did laugh at the spin that the by-election victory was nothing to do with Keir… when just two days ago the defeat was actually going to be Keirs defeat. The first part isn’t wrong in itself it’s just the rapid about turn…*

I remember the Labour right making the exact same argument about Peterborough (where there was a good ground game, a largish BAME vote and a split opposition)

As commented on the other thread Keir was responsible because he made a choice not to go to the seat more than once…it’s not a great sign but was still a good call!

*equally these same people said it was all down to Kim but many in the party had bitched about her getting selected.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

My considered suggestion would be that all senior people in the party of whatever faction or grouping should now take some time off, go on holiday to some tranquil rural location. The late Rhodri Morgan liked a little stretch of Cardigan Bay because of the dolphins and would spend his time-off just tramping around the place dressed like a determined rambler from the 1930s.* Most people would accept that he was one of the most balanced senior Labour politicians of recent decades and, well...

_{*Met him doing that once.}

[Conservatopia]

It would be nice if right wing outriders like Ben Bradshaw would just shut up, though - Starmer isn't going to use a narrow Labour hold to wreak vengeance on his "disloyal enemies" and nor should he. Instead, he should use this reprieve to practice proper "big tent" internal politics.

Ben Bradshaw is a tool, albeit not the sharpest one in the box.

[Oryxslayer]

Keir Starmer has written a pretty good op-ed in the Guardian, where he discusses the by-election campaign, and also makes a broader point about opposing divisiveness and division. He also does offer a vision of what he believes the party should be. In my opinion, there's quite a lot of potential here, he just needs to put it into action: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/02/keir-starmer-labour-byelection-politics-kim-leadbeater

It's a meme among the politicos that Starmer wants to be Labour's Biden, and while there are plenty of differences, he certainly seems to desire the comparison.

I think though this article outlines what Starmer gives a hint at what Starmer wants to do with Labour. He's got a brand as a diligent and steady technocrat. He wants Labour to be seen as the party of the dignity and the high road. This can be seen as "Riposte" strategy where the party capitalizes on the divisiveness and indecency of their opposition - US, Israel, France 2017, and  Canada 2015 are good recent examples. The strategy works, when available.

The issue of course is that Boris and the UK Conservatives do not yet have this perception in the places that matter. Their present strategy is a the exact opposite of what Starmer wants, with inclusive national projects, "leveling up", and coronavirus recovery. Which therefore leaves Starmer with no present message and Labour with a brand seen by many to be indistinguishable from the government.

[Blair]

I’m not sure if this is a West Midlands Labour thing or a TGWU thing…

https://labourlist.org/2021/07/jack-dromey-why-im-backing-steve-turner-as-unites-next-general-secretary/

[CumbrianLefty]

I’m not sure if this is a West Midlands Labour thing or a TGWU thing…

https://labourlist.org/2021/07/jack-dromey-why-im-backing-steve-turner-as-unites-next-general-secretary/

Trying to be as objective as possible, Turner is arguably the "best" candidate anyway.