January 6th legal proceedings and investigations megathread

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

We found out today that a confidential informant in the Proud Boys said that they absolutely would have killed Pence if they got the chance. We also found out that rioters got within 40 feet of Pence.

We probably only narrowly dodged an actual massacre on that day. If they had done what they wanted to do to Pence, any limited amount of restraint in that mob would have been gone, and every single member of Congress would have been a target for similar violence except perhaps for the Qanon freaks who may have joined in and turned on their colleagues.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

https://twitter.com/LarrySabato/status/1537503090148089859

Sad but accurate.

If he had actually led the cabinet in invoking the 25th Amendment and kept Trump away from any executive power for the remainder of his presidency, especially in light of the potential for flagrant abuses of the pardon power in the wake of the coup attempt, I might *grudgingly* call Pence a hero. But given that he failed to do that, I will not be participating in giving such lofty praise to a man who literally just did his legally-mandated job after four years of pathetic subservience.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1537517976559267842

"I've decided that I should be on the pardon list" is one of those quotes that is just fully beyond any ability to parody.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

It's really rather meaningless to debate which of 9/11 or January 6 was "worse" than the other. They were both terrible events, but in qualitatively different ways.  9/11 was a horrible external attack on the U.S. that caused a massive loss of life and shock to the American psyche, but it was pretty much a one-shot blow; there is no ongoing, significant threat to the U.S. as a result.  In contrast, January 6 was less violent and resulted in a much smaller loss of life, but it was a blow struck at the heart of the U.S. government itself, and signified a continuing internal threat to the future of the U.S. as a democratic republic.

This is almost exactly my perspective

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1538509487832711169

To borrow a phrase: Lock him up

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1540076574749462530

Based on what's come out so far in the hearings, I really don't see how Trump can avoid indictment.

If Trump had been a governor or a mayor or any other level of elected official trying to pull this crap, I have little to no doubt that there would be an indictment. The biggest (only?) thing that is holding charges back is the fact that he was president and has a large enough following that DOJ is worried about whether bringing charges would "hurt the country" by "dividing people" or some such nonsense that really should not be one of their considerations.

Even still, every day that these hearings present new levels of detail on just how expansive this whole scheme was makes me a little less pessimistic about DOJ finding the will to charge him.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Hutchinson is currently testifying that Trump was upset at the crowd size at the Ellipse (surprise, surprise) and was trying to get the organizers to take down the metal detectors people had to pass through to get in because he knew there were armed people outside the rally's perimeter, and he wanted to let them in. He said he knew they weren't there to hurt him and "they can march to the Capitol when the rally's over."

I don't know if Trump actually wanted members of Congress who opposed him to be killed on January 6th or if he merely wanted them to be intimidated into going along with the coup attempt, but at this point it is beyond clear that he wanted one of those two things to happen, and both are completely beyond the pale for anything that we should tolerate.

Imprison this fascist at ADX Florence before he tries it again.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Trump tried to grab the steering wheel of the truck that transported him from the rally to force them to take him to the Capitol, and, according to a third-party witness (i.e. not Hutchinson), lunged at someone (the driver?) and apparently tried to choke him?! We had better get whoever the source for that story is subpoenaed stat.

You know, I didn't think anything in this world was capable of surprising me anymore.

I was wrong.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

According to CNN Live Updates, there's a group chat of Trump advisers.

"This is a bombshell. It's stunning. It's shocking. The story about the beast – I don't have words. It's just stunning," said one Trump adviser.

"This paints a picture of Trump completely unhinged and completely losing all control which, for his base, they think of him as someone who is in command at all times. This completely flies in the face of that," the adviser added.

"For the first time since the hearings started, no one is dismissing this," the adviser said.

https://twitter.com/cavalorn/status/654934442549620736

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1541849738521317376

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Meanwhile, in Atlanta...

Donald Trump documentary filmmaker Alex Holder has been contacted by the Fulton County District Attorney's Office about his potential cooperation with the grand jury investigating the pressure the former President put on Georgia officials to overturn that state's 2020 election results, a source with knowledge of the situation told CNN.

Fulton County prosecutor Fani Willis issued a subpoena for Holder's cooperation as well as the filmmaker's raw footage, including interviews with Trump, the source said.

"Our client will comply with any lawful subpoena from the Department of Justice or any other law enforcement agency," said Holder's attorney Russell Smith.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/28/politics/trump-documentary-filmmaker-fulton-county/index.html

It takes a remarkable level of stupidity and/or hubris to decide "Sure, we should have someone film our coup attempt"

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Someone on this forum was upset that he left the Capitol or didn't leave the Capitol or something like that. I don't know if that's what Mike Pence is Guilty of Treason's beef is though.

Given the clip of Trump attempting to demand the Secret Service take him to the Capitol, I blame Pence for making the call.

That is a direct violation of chain of command. Who else would've directed the Secret Service to take Trump back to the White House?

The Secret Service is under no obligation to carry out instructions that would aid and abet criminal activity - indeed they are obliged to ignore any such instructions. The president is not a dictator, and he does not have the authority to turn the Secret Service into a Praetorian Guard as part of a plot to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.

This is not a difficult concept.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

The Secret Service is under no obligation to carry out instructions that would aid and abet criminal activity - indeed they are obliged to ignore any such instructions. The president is not a dictator, and he does not have the authority to turn the Secret Service into a Praetorian Guard as part of a plot to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.

This is not a difficult concept.

In this case, whisking Trump away to the White House caused chaos. If Trump was at the Capitol, no way people enter and trespass in the building.

So if Biden threatened to declare WW3 on Russia because of the conflict with Ukraine, would the Secret Service be justified in preventing him from taking action?

Biden wouldn't be ordering the Secret Service to do anything in that situation, so they wouldn't even be involved. But to go more to your overall point, yes, the military - those who would be receiving the orders - would have a duty to disobey the orders if those orders clearly violated the law.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Biden wouldn't be ordering the Secret Service to do anything in that situation, so they wouldn't even be involved. But to go more to your overall point, yes, the military - those who would be receiving the orders - would have a duty to disobey the orders if those orders clearly violated the law.

If he asked for the Nuclear football, he would be asking them to do something, no...?

The nuclear football is carried by a military officer at all times, not the Secret Service.

FFS please know what the hell you are talking about before you make more of a fool of yourself.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Biden wouldn't be ordering the Secret Service to do anything in that situation, so they wouldn't even be involved. But to go more to your overall point, yes, the military - those who would be receiving the orders - would have a duty to disobey the orders if those orders clearly violated the law.

If he asked for the Nuclear football, he would be asking them to do something, no...?

The nuclear football is carried by a military officer at all times, not the Secret Service.

FFS please know what the hell you are talking about before you make more of a fool of yourself.

And...? The Secret Service intervened when the Biden-friendly CCP attempted to seize the device from Trump's entourage.

You know what, f*** it, believe whatever nonsense you want to believe. If you can't understand on your own the simple fact that the president is not an absolute monarch over the executive branch then that is your problem to fix, not mine.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

You know what, f*** it, believe whatever nonsense you want to believe. If you can't understand on your own the simple fact that the president is not an absolute monarch over the executive branch then that is your problem to fix, not mine.

I'm saying the Vice President isn't a monarch. How are we in disagreement?

Neither of them can give unlawful orders you turnip, and the orders Trump gave were unlawful. That is why they returned him to the White House. That and that alone, not any sort of instruction from Pence.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Neither of them can give unlawful orders you turnip, and the orders Trump gave were unlawful. That is why they returned him to the White House. That and that alone, not any sort of instruction from Pence.

If Pence gave the order to the Secret Service to head back to the White House, how does that change your view of the situation?

It doesn't change it at all. If Trump ordered the Secret Service to take part in a crime, then they ignore that order. If Trump did not give them any other orders that were not illegal, then they would logically follow the most senior *lawful* order that had been given to them, and if that was from the Vice President then so be it.

If Trump had *at literally any point* given the Secret Service an order that would not have made them an accessory to a crime, then yes, that order would have superseded any order from Pence. The fact that Trump *only gave them unlawful orders and nothing else* is the reason he was returned to the White House.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Why are you guys engaging with his nonsensical, gaslighting BS? I've had him blocked for months now I think, and this thread's past couple pages is a perfect encapsulation of why I was right to do so.

Yeah, I think that's the right course of action at this point.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Do ya'll think Trump will be indicted?

I think the odds are very high that Trump will be indicted by at least one of the DOJ and Fulton County, and quite likely by both.

Every day the plausible deniability that Trump had in the immediate aftermath of the riot - it was always highly dubious to me, but it may have been enough to convince a prosecutor that proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt was too difficult - crumbles even more.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

So far we have more testimony that Trump knew the crowd was armed.

Trump assaulted the agent refusing to drive him to the Capitol.

Trump said Mike Pence deserved to be hung.

I am begging people to please learn the proper past tense of that verb, I do not need the mental image of Mike Pence that that is giving me.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

They’ve done a good job laying out Trump’s total inaction and even refusal to carry out his duties as president.

Him refusing the call from the Department of Defense seems like a big deal.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

They’ve done a good job laying out Trump’s total inaction and even refusal to carry out his duties as president.

Him refusing the call from the Department of Defense seems like a big deal.

As well as calling senators to ask them to delay the certification while the mob was attacking.

I think we knew that that was happening, although they have laid the timeline out with more clarity than previously, which is helpful.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Trump refusing to say "the election is over" in these cut takes from the January 7th address is just astonishingly reckless on his part. The lie that the election was not over is the main reason the attack happened, as he well knows.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Good God, that blooper reel.

I was having Bill O'Reilly "F*** it, we'll do it live" flashbacks

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

This Josh Hawley meme is the best.

https://twitter.com/The_Mal_Gallery/status/1550290085882564608?t=H_DqUGDSHqzpeOn...
https://twitter.com/The_Mal_Gallery/status/1550291515624361984?t=Uc-m84bjWCNQK9X...
https://twitter.com/The_Mal_Gallery/status/1550293235305795586?t=ap8H_5K3zGD49pI...
https://twitter.com/The_Mal_Gallery/status/1550297488220983296?t=BrFMEjwBjAYityu...
https://twitter.com/The_Mal_Gallery/status/1550297553241051137?t=rZw9nXHtLVvZmHW...

I am so glad that there are at least occasional moments to laugh in spite of how awful everything that happened on January 6th was. And for it to be centered on Hawley makes it even better.