Israel-Gaza war

[dead0man]

Total war it is.

Invasion of Gaza?

_{(honestly we've gotten to the point that 'liberation' would be a more appropriate word, especially from the POV of ordinary Gazans)}

I wouldn't be surprised if this expands to Iran given they probably helped

If iran was behind it, surely Hezbollah would probably be involved or taking advantage of the situation, given they are Tehran's proxy forces. Instead they seem just as taken by surprise as anybody else.

indeed, they aren't even sure what excuse Hamas is using for this escalation

Hezbollah congratulated Hamas on Friday, praising the attack as a response to “Israeli crimes” and saying the militants had “divine backing.” The group said its command in Lebanon was in contact with Hamas about the operation.

I guess all the previous times Hamas escalated they didn't have "divine backing".  Mo (pbuh) must have been busy with something else.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Total war it is.

Invasion of Gaza?

_{(honestly we've gotten to the point that 'liberation' would be a more appropriate word, especially from the POV of ordinary Gazans)}

I wouldn't be surprised if this expands to Iran given they probably helped

If iran was behind it, surely Hezbollah would probably be involved or taking advantage of the situation, given they are Tehran's proxy forces. Instead they seem just as taken by surprise as anybody else.

indeed, they aren't even sure what excuse Hamas is using for this escalation

Hezbollah congratulated Hamas on Friday, praising the attack as a response to “Israeli crimes” and saying the militants had “divine backing.” The group said its command in Lebanon was in contact with Hamas about the operation.

I guess all the previous times Hamas escalated they didn't have "divine backing".  Mo (pbuh) must have been busy with something else.

I've seen speculation that forces opposed to KSA-Tel Aviv normalization urged Hamas to do this, in hopes of scuppering it as a possibility. I would not necessarily assume that Hamas and Israel are the only two parties with any hand in this occurring.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Well, all Netanyahu's recent dicking around probably hasn't helped here has it?

In the obvious sense, no (this has clearly been planned for a very long time), but in an 'eye off the ball' sense, quite possible: what has happened/is still happening has been a known nightmare scenario for some time but, even leaving aside intelligence failings, it's striking how everything seems to have been out of place for a fast response.

[walleye26]

Well, all Netanyahu's recent dicking around probably hasn't helped here has it?

Yeah, I was thinking that same thing. Obviously, indiscriminate attacks against civilian targets, (what Hamas is doing here) are unacceptable and Israel has the complete right to defend itself against that.

But I can’t help but feel that Bibi’s far-right buddies and treatment of the Palestinians hasn’t played a role or factor in Hamas’ decision making here. Especially when you consider the rhetoric coming from people like Ben Givr and others high up in the government. Hamas may have done this under some “protect the Palestinians” thing.

[CumbrianLefty]

I was also thinking of his getting so chummy with Russia and similar stuff.

[jaichind]

I guess the end game will be eventually some sort of IDF incursion into the Gaza Strip itself.  I wonder what Eyppt's position on that would be.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Talking of people dicking around have Fatah made a statement?

[DavidB.]

Interesting to see that the ghouls gleeing over Russian terrorism in Ukraine are exactly the same ones who now glee over Palestinian terrorism in Israel. Mods, please use the banhammer liberally.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Well, all Netanyahu's recent dicking around probably hasn't helped here has it?

In the obvious sense, no (this has clearly been planned for a very long time), but in an 'eye off the ball' sense, quite possible: what has happened/is still happening has been a known nightmare scenario for some time but, even leaving aside intelligence failings, it's striking how everything seems to have been out of place for a fast response.

Well, all Netanyahu's recent dicking around probably hasn't helped here has it?

Yeah, I was thinking that same thing. Obviously, indiscriminate attacks against civilian targets, (what Hamas is doing here) are unacceptable and Israel has the complete right to defend itself against that.

But I can’t help but feel that Bibi’s far-right buddies and treatment of the Palestinians hasn’t played a role or factor in Hamas’ decision making here. Especially when you consider the rhetoric coming from people like Ben Givr and others high up in the government. Hamas may have done this under some “protect the Palestinians” thing.

Quick thoughts, without a ton of weight: This is an unprecedented failure, for sure. First, obviously, Israel's intelligence, especially in the IDF, carries heavy blame and will have to pay a price. The army's reaction was also embarrasingly lackluster and slow. However, important to note that a lot of the blame is also on the government's priorities and actions. Most of the regular army was apparently in the West Bank, defending the settlers and their provocations and attacks on Palestinian villages. Including the Gaza Division, explicitly designed to protect the Gaza border. The settlers and the government supporting them, especially the Otzma-RZ pyromancers, have blood on their hands here, and I hope the Israeli people will acknowledge this (doubt it though). The realization should be that Israel simply doesn't have the regular forces to play nanny for the settlers, who are also directly working to provoke the Palestinians. We urgently need to create a border and guard it.

[Hnv1]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1710633622338781436?s=20

[CumbrianLefty]

Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, the PMF, Russia, Belarus, Chechnya, and China I think will use human wave attack to humiliate the IDF and will be in control of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem in a few days after utilizing those tactics.

Your faith that "human wave attacks" can achieve anything save wanton mass slaughter, is touching.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Well, all Netanyahu's recent dicking around probably hasn't helped here has it?

Yeah, I was thinking that same thing. Obviously, indiscriminate attacks against civilian targets, (what Hamas is doing here) are unacceptable and Israel has the complete right to defend itself against that.

But I can’t help but feel that Bibi’s far-right buddies and treatment of the Palestinians hasn’t played a role or factor in Hamas’ decision making here. Especially when you consider the rhetoric coming from people like Ben Givr and others high up in the government. Hamas may have done this under some “protect the Palestinians” thing.

If nothing else, the behavior of the Israeli military and politicians towards Masjid al-Aqsa fuels dislike of them among ordinary people in the region. I can assure you that things like that specifically do very little to win them goodwill. It would be very hard to think of a proper analog for that specifically that could translate to an American context in serving as something equally offensive to Americans, in fact, it would hard to find anything at least on par with it. Holy sites are holy sites.

[Ferguson97]

What the hell was Hamas hoping to gain from this?

[Hnv1]

I'm too old for reserves duty, but I texted my old commander. Maybe they can find some use for me

[Zinneke]

What the hell was Hamas hoping to gain from this?

Maintaining their sponsors' support.

[CumbrianLefty]

What the hell was Hamas hoping to gain from this?

Brownie points from online "holy warriors" worldwide?

[Hnv1]

What the hell was Hamas hoping to gain from this?

Staying alive. Stopping the Saudi deal. What do they care if they make Gaza into a massive  funeral pyre

[Zinneke]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1710633622338781436?s=20

We're just getting started. Let's see all those people dancing with our civilians' corpses in the street by Wednesday.

I don't think boasting about dead civilians, even if said civilians are misguided individuals, is constructive either way is it?

Israel has a "right " to reoccupy the Gaza Strip and remove elements that attacked it from there but not to indiscriminately kill non-armed people.

[Zinneke]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1710633622338781436?s=20

We're just getting started. Let's see all those people dancing with our civilians' corpses in the street by Wednesday.

I don't think boasting about dead civilians, even if said civilians are misguided individuals, is constructive either way is it?

Israel has a "right " to reoccupy the Gaza Strip and remove elements that attacked it from there but not to indiscriminately kill non-armed people.

Considering the amount of popular support we can see Hamas and PIJ having in the streets of Gaza perhaps the people of Gaza need a sharp reminder of the realities of life. I think they should take complaints about civilian losses to the Hamas Ombudsman.

Ok, why don't we just casually assisnate some of the Russian Israelis who support Russia's invasion of Ukraine (some even financially I imagine). I'm sure that will go down well with you

Being a keyboard warrior doesn't merit having a bomb dropped on you.

[bilaps]

Some sickening images and videos of Palestinians harming captured pow-s, especially younger girls.

On the other hand, years and even decades of Israels inhumane treating of Palestinians comes for a payback.

Be aware of world powers learning the hard way that nobody is untouchable. Americans learned it in Afghanistan and Iraq, Russians in Ukraine and now Israel has it's reality check.

[bilaps]

The IDF is a hundred times more competent than the Orcs invading Ukraine right now (and Ukrainians are hundred times more competent than Hamas), don't worry about the drones too much.

They sure don't look like that this morning.

[Zinneke]

Palestinians have the right to fight and resist apartheid state Israël, in fact they should, and everyone who does is a freedom fighter. They have my support. The oppression needs to end, and no one is interested in peace & diplomacy from the international community.

You've got your metal hat and ammo belt ready, why aren't you alongside the fighting forces? You and DavidB are two sides of the same coin, boastful of military action yet unable to be brave enough to serve. It's easy to throw sh**t from the Lowlands.

[Ferguson97]

Palestinians have the right to fight and resist apartheid state Israël, in fact they should, and everyone who does is a freedom fighter. They have my support. The oppression needs to end, and no one is interested in peace & diplomacy from the international community.

You are sick in the head. They attacked civilians, not military. There’s a difference.

[Hnv1]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1710633622338781436?s=20

We're just getting started. Let's see all those people dancing with our civilians' corpses in the street by Wednesday.

I don't think boasting about dead civilians, even if said civilians are misguided individuals, is constructive either way is it?

Israel has a "right " to reoccupy the Gaza Strip and remove elements that attacked it from there but not to indiscriminately kill non-armed people.

Considering the amount of popular support we can see Hamas and PIJ having in the streets of Gaza perhaps the people of Gaza need a sharp reminder of the realities of life. I think they should take complaints about civilian losses to the Hamas Ombudsman.

Ok, why don't we just casually assisnate some of the Russian Israelis who support Russia's invasion of Ukraine (some even financially I imagine). I'm sure that will go down well with you

Being a keyboard warrior doesn't merit having a bomb dropped on you.

How is that a like-for-like? The Ukraine has indeed targeting numerous Russian civilian targets for months now. I don't recall the west having much qualms about the people of Donetsk  

Ah now you are towing the famous "Donbass genocide" line of the Russian propaganda machine. Good to see you've gone off the deep end.

If you can't see how an indiscriminate bombing campaign against cilivians in Gaza is not an appropriate and proportionate response, do us all a favour and vote for Ben Gvir next election to turn your strip of sand into a theocracy.

I don't see where I adopted Russian propaganda.

The reality is that civilians die in conflicts, especially when their leadership actively seeks to hide between them. Moreover, the people of Gaza are themselves taking part in this war as evident in many videos showing many of them spontaneously joining the fighting since the early strike. So my general stance atm is 'em. The gloves are off.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

In the Land of Milk and Honey, it seems the Golden Rule has long since been forgotten. The results of this are now being seen once more.
Pessimism is the reasonable baseline assumption until we see a general, sustained upwards turn and de-escalation and a retreat from ludicrously irrendetist mindset for both parties here, as well as unification behind reasonable leadership.
That is not likely to happen. Until either community gets their act together and figures out how to share instead of saying "more clay!" through action if not in words, these kind of crises can continue to happen.