Israeli Airstrikes on Gaza

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

well, I can think of a couple of signs that have come to pass:
1) reformation of Israel
2) increase in wickedness
3) nations begin to turn against Israel

Yep, that's what they were saying in 1975.  Everybody expects the world to end on their watch, everybody has always been wrong.  I blame our ego's.

wait a second, I'm 99% sure Christ isn't coming back until the Jews recontrol all of Jerusalem and the Temple is rebuilt and the AntiChrist is ruling there.  So, I've made no predictions and I don't expect our world to "end" until that happens.  So, how exactly have I been "wrong".

[danny]

Israel's response is in the right direction, however it is disproportionately overdone.

Since when have wars ever been fought proportionately? And if countries were required to fight proportionally, then the US would in Afghanistan would have had to wait until they killed 3,000 people and once they reached that milestone simply pack up and left because they finished attacking proportionally.

I'm just mentioning how abrupt and overwhelming Israel's response has been. Face it, most of us were caught off guard with this. I mean, as the above poster stated, rockets being fired at Israel is like the sun coming up in the morning over there. Usually, Israel strikes back, but it's just small operation, nothing like this.

I agree that Israels response to rocket fire hasn't been consistant. However, your post argued that the response is supposed to be proportionate, which is absurd.

[GMantis]

Close

Israel is a nation (right or wrong)

Hamas is attacking Israelie civlians from civilian areas

Israel is attacking those sites and doing their damndest not to hit civilians

If Hamas would stop and respect Israel (again right or wrong) Israel would also leave them alone

Somewhat close

Israel is a nation (right or wrong)

Hamas is attacking indiscriminately from a very densely populated area

Israel is attacking those sites and doing it with extremely heavy firepower, making it very hard not to hit civilians in the overcrowded Gaza strip

If Hamas would stop and respect Israel (again right or wrong) Israel would only blockade them

[Serenity Now]

Sadly I don't care about this issue anymore. It's F***ing hopeless.. Debates surrounding it consist of "we were here first",  "they started it".. It's depressing how many forumers are please to see the perpetual cycle of violence continue some more..

[dead0man]

Close

Israel is a nation (right or wrong)

Hamas is attacking Israelie civlians from civilian areas

Israel is attacking those sites and doing their damndest not to hit civilians

If Hamas would stop and respect Israel (again right or wrong) Israel would also leave them alone

Somewhat close

Israel is a nation (right or wrong)

Hamas is attacking indiscriminately from a very densely populated area

Israel is attacking those sites and doing it with extremely heavy firepower, making it very hard not to hit civilians in the overcrowded Gaza strip

If Hamas would stop and respect Israel (again right or wrong) Israel would only blockade them

Agreed...except for the last line.  If the Pali's grew up, Israel would have to end any blockade.  But before we can ever get there, the asshats need to stop firing randomly into Israel.  End of story.

[GMantis]

well, I can think of a couple of signs that have come to pass:
1) reformation of Israel
2) increase in wickedness
3) nations begin to turn against Israel

That was true in 1948.

[GMantis]

Close

Israel is a nation (right or wrong)

Hamas is attacking Israelie civlians from civilian areas

Israel is attacking those sites and doing their damndest not to hit civilians

If Hamas would stop and respect Israel (again right or wrong) Israel would also leave them alone

Somewhat close

Israel is a nation (right or wrong)

Hamas is attacking indiscriminately from a very densely populated area

Israel is attacking those sites and doing it with extremely heavy firepower, making it very hard not to hit civilians in the overcrowded Gaza strip

If Hamas would stop and respect Israel (again right or wrong) Israel would only blockade them

Agreed...except for the last line.  If the Pali's grew up, Israel would have to end any blockade.  But before we can ever get there, the asshats need to stop firing randomly into Israel.  End of story.

Israel began the blockade as soon as Hamas was elected. Not that sending missiles is the best way to improve relations, but one must not forget the proper timeline of events.

[dead0man]

Yep, they voted in a terrorist organization.  Everybody knew how this was going to play out.  The Pali's get to continue playing the victim and racists continue to have excuses to wish death on Jews.  The military industry gets to test and sell more weapons, terrorists get to try new tactics and refine old ones.  Everybody wins except for the ones that get blowed up and their loved ones.  Same as it's ever been.




(I'm NOT calling you or any other individual a racist)

[GMantis]

What is the point of democracy if countries are penalised for making a democratic choice?

[dead0man]

That is the point.  They are free to elect terrorists if they want and Israel's democratically elected govt is free to close their borders when they do.  If they want peace with Israel maybe they shouldn't willingly chose to elect terrorist leaders.

[GMantis]

That is the point.  They are free to elect terrorists if they want and Israel's democratically elected govt is free to close their borders when they do.  If they want peace with Israel maybe they shouldn't willingly chose to elect terrorist leaders.

Israel felt safe to do this because the EU and the US had hypocritically called on Palestine to democratise and then had condemned their choice.

[Matt Damon™]

The same logic that calls palestinians terrorists for defending their lands could be just as easily used to call western border patrols/immigration control officers terrorists for doing the same.

[Silent Hunter]

That is the point.  They are free to elect terrorists if they want and Israel's democratically elected govt is free to close their borders when they do.  If they want peace with Israel maybe they shouldn't willingly chose to elect terrorist leaders.

Israel felt safe to do this because the EU and the US had hypocritically called on Palestine to democratise and then had condemned their choice.

The actions of Hamas are to continue to call for Israel's destruction. They're being punished for that, not the fact they were elected. If other democracies did that sort of thing, they'd be punished.

The reason Hamas are terrorists is because of their methods, not their beliefs.

[GMantis]

That is the point.  They are free to elect terrorists if they want and Israel's democratically elected govt is free to close their borders when they do.  If they want peace with Israel maybe they shouldn't willingly chose to elect terrorist leaders.

Israel felt safe to do this because the EU and the US had hypocritically called on Palestine to democratise and then had condemned their choice.

The actions of Hamas are to continue to call for Israel's destruction. They're being punished for that, not the fact they were elected. If other democracies did that sort of thing, they'd be punished.

The reason Hamas are terrorists is because of their methods, not their beliefs.

At the time Hamas was starting to adopt more moderate (relatively speaking, of course) positions. In any case, punishing the entire country because of the government elected doesn't send a strong message for democracy. It doesn't help the opposition either.

[Silent Hunter]

That is the point.  They are free to elect terrorists if they want and Israel's democratically elected govt is free to close their borders when they do.  If they want peace with Israel maybe they shouldn't willingly chose to elect terrorist leaders.

Israel felt safe to do this because the EU and the US had hypocritically called on Palestine to democratise and then had condemned their choice.

The actions of Hamas are to continue to call for Israel's destruction. They're being punished for that, not the fact they were elected. If other democracies did that sort of thing, they'd be punished.

The reason Hamas are terrorists is because of their methods, not their beliefs.

At the time Hamas was starting to adopt more moderate (relatively speaking, of course) positions. In any case, punishing the entire country because of the government elected doesn't send a strong message for democracy. It doesn't help the opposition either.

Which you can also apply to Israel and historically apartheid South Africa.

Hamas are still launching rockets at Israel with the aim of killing innocent civilians. That is unacceptable.

[dead0man]

At the time Hamas was starting to adopt more moderate (relatively speaking, of course) positions. In any case, punishing the entire country because of the government elected doesn't send a strong message for democracy. It doesn't help the opposition either.

I don't understand.  How is it bad for democracy.  Democracy worked, the people wanted a govt and they got it.  They knew what they were getting into.  This isn't a negative for democracy, it's a negative for the poor people of Gaza because of their foolish choice.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

one of these days Israel may come to the conclusion that measured responses have not worked with the Muslims

[GMantis]

That is the point.  They are free to elect terrorists if they want and Israel's democratically elected govt is free to close their borders when they do.  If they want peace with Israel maybe they shouldn't willingly chose to elect terrorist leaders.

Israel felt safe to do this because the EU and the US had hypocritically called on Palestine to democratise and then had condemned their choice.

The actions of Hamas are to continue to call for Israel's destruction. They're being punished for that, not the fact they were elected. If other democracies did that sort of thing, they'd be punished.

The reason Hamas are terrorists is because of their methods, not their beliefs.

At the time Hamas was starting to adopt more moderate (relatively speaking, of course) positions. In any case, punishing the entire country because of the government elected doesn't send a strong message for democracy. It doesn't help the opposition either.

Which you can also apply to Israel and historically apartheid South Africa.

Hamas are still launching rockets at Israel with the aim of killing innocent civilians. That is unacceptable.

How can you apply this to Israel. The diffeence between the Palestine and South Africa is the absence of democratic elections in the later.
That is true. However, the blockade began in 2006, when Hamas had declared a truce and before any major attacks had begun.

[Pravda]

I for one am looking forward to when the colonialist state of Israel is crushed by the righteous Palestinian resistance and thrown in the dustbin of history where it belongs.

[Silent Hunter]

How can you apply this to Israel. The diffeence between the Palestine and South Africa is the absence of democratic elections in the later.

Israelis elected their current government.

South Africa, while only whites could vote, did have elections.

[GMantis]

How can you apply this to Israel. The diffeence between the Palestine and South Africa is the absence of democratic elections in the later.

Israelis elected their current government.

South Africa, while only whites could vote, did have elections.

Who has condemned Israel for their current elected government?
I said democratic elections.

[k-onmmunist]

Israel's response was justified. Hamas has continually acted irresponsibly and will not come to an agreement with Israel, simply because they are Jewish.

[GMantis]

Israel's response was justified. Hamas has continually acted irresponsibly and will not come to an agreement with Israel, simply because they are Jewish.

No, they won't come to an agreement because Israel is situated on land Hamas considers Palestinian; if the Israelis were Buddists, they wouldn't come to agreement either.

[Silent Hunter]

How can you apply this to Israel. The diffeence between the Palestine and South Africa is the absence of democratic elections in the later.

Israelis elected their current government.

South Africa, while only whites could vote, did have elections.

Who has condemned Israel for their current elected government?
I said democratic elections.

1. A good portion of the left.
2. The government was still elected by the white population.

[Reaganfan]

I am very much in support of the Israeli Military in their strikes on Hamas.