Mideast Assembly Thread

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

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[Purple State]

Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

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Aye

Due to the fact that we now have at least 3 people committed to getting us a new Constitution, I will support the movement.  However, I do so cautiously - this is not something that we can just start and stop when we get bored.  It must be completed, and completed well, otherwise we'll find ourselves back in this position in another 6 months.

Now, the process for a Constitutional Convention (and this is the same as last time): The Constitution offers no provision for a CC.  This means that we need to simply pass the Third Constitution as an "Amendment" to the 2nd Constitution (for those of you who find this weird sounding, it's what we did when we voted on the 2nd Constitution).  This means that for the 3C to pass, we need a 2/3 majority support of the Constitution/Amendment.

The Assembly could pass legislation allowing for a convention, but we must remember that anything done in that convention is not legally binding.  The only thing that will be legally binding is the vote by the people.  I think we can get this done for the January election, which means it would go into effect AFTER the January election.

So, my question to the Assembly is, how do we want to do this?  Do we want to set up some kind of non-binding convention or do we want to do it some other way?

It is definitely best, I believe, to start with the non-binding convention to ensure that, if things fall apart (not that they will), there is still a semi-workable Constitution left. It would also, if I understand correctly, allow us to move forward on forming a new Constitution without waiting for a delay on passing an Amendment, meaning we could start immediately.

Just want to state, to ensure that I do not forget later, that I recommend including provisions for calling an official convention in the 3C so that wasteful delays on Amendment voting is not necessary in the future.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

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Aye

Due to the fact that we now have at least 3 people committed to getting us a new Constitution, I will support the movement.  However, I do so cautiously - this is not something that we can just start and stop when we get bored.  It must be completed, and completed well, otherwise we'll find ourselves back in this position in another 6 months.

Now, the process for a Constitutional Convention (and this is the same as last time): The Constitution offers no provision for a CC.  This means that we need to simply pass the Third Constitution as an "Amendment" to the 2nd Constitution (for those of you who find this weird sounding, it's what we did when we voted on the 2nd Constitution).  This means that for the 3C to pass, we need a 2/3 majority support of the Constitution/Amendment.

The Assembly could pass legislation allowing for a convention, but we must remember that anything done in that convention is not legally binding.  The only thing that will be legally binding is the vote by the people.  I think we can get this done for the January election, which means it would go into effect AFTER the January election.

So, my question to the Assembly is, how do we want to do this?  Do we want to set up some kind of non-binding convention or do we want to do it some other way?

It is definitely best, I believe, to start with the non-binding convention to ensure that, if things fall apart (not that they will), there is still a semi-workable Constitution left. It would also, if I understand correctly, allow us to move forward on forming a new Constitution without waiting for a delay on passing an Amendment, meaning we could start immediately.

Just want to state, to ensure that I do not forget later, that I recommend including provisions for calling an official convention in the 3C so that wasteful delays on Amendment voting is not necessary in the future.

Right - I had meant to say that I wanted that provision in the 3C, but must have forgotten.

Does anybody have ideas on how to go about doing the convention?

[Peter]

Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

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Nay. Whilst by no means do I denounce their actions at all, I do not feel the complete circumstances surrounding this "War on Trolls" are fully in the light of day yet.

Regarding a 3CC for the Mideast - I am quite happy for it to be an informal non-binding convention. I am also happy for it to be called by resolution of this Assembly, or even by simple acclamation by the Governor.

[Purple State]

Just laying out some ideas (I've never been here for a Convention so these are just thoughts):

• Separate thread
• Setup clear bylaws (some ideas below)
• Rolling presiding officer to ensure all voices are heard
• Secretary to take down all motions passed and organize the Constitution in a presentable fashion
• Any member of the Mideast can be involved (propose ideas) and serve as presiding officer (with some requirement on activity in the Convention to ensure that only the most active can serve)

Most of it should be worked out through the bylaws and guidelines for the Convention. There will need to be provisions for voting on motions as well (must be voted on by at least one-third of all members of the Mideast?, simple majority or two-thirds approval?).

[© tweed]

If we get enough interest in forming a Third Constitution it is definitely worth consideration. I give you my word I would help considerably to make things work, as I believe the Governor seems like one to be active in such a process. I would support this if it were to be carried out.

If I see that actions will actually be carried through, I'll support it.  But we've had promises for action in the past that have often fallen through.

As I said, I'm bored and am very into the whole government scene. I know I'm new in Atlasia but I bring passion and time.

'government scene' is quite funny terminology

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

On the following matter:

Troll Resistance Commemoration Act

I vote: AYE


The Act passes with 2 AYE votes and 1 NAY vote.

[Purple State]

Should we begin to construct legislation to call for a 3CC?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Should we begin to construct legislation to call for a 3CC?

I'll let you draft it, since you seem pretty eager to do so, and I'll propose any amendments that I think might be helpful after I see your bill.

[Purple State]

Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith.
B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. The vote must be held in an official voting booth for no less than seven days. Additional voting requirements shall be determined by the Convention.
C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast.
D) All elections required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all current Mideast residents to be valid.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith.
B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. The vote must be held in an official voting booth for no less than seven days. Additional voting requirements shall be determined by the Convention.
C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast.
D) All elections required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all current Mideast residents to be valid.

A couple things - section B has some problems.  First, the first sentence isn't really necessary, since it's already in the Constitution, but we can include it for clarification - I just want make sure that people understand that section B is in no way doing anything other than affirming what the Constitution says in Article VI, Section 1, clause 1.

Second, the voting booth would be held open for 3 days, since we don't have the power to dictate how long voting booths are held open for.  However, votes held during the convention (let's say a vote to include ________ in the constitution) could be held open longer, since those votes are non-legally binding and thus are not propositions.

Section C will have to be elaborated in order to give us a process of how to do that.  Can anybody run?  Must they be nominated?  Who opens the booth?

Remember - we have to establish all of this - the Governor can't just open these booths unless we say so in this legislation, because if we assume that he'll open stuff, we're assuming that these are propositions, and then we're doing this unconstitutionally.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Here's my proposed changes, which I hope you'll take as friendly amendments.  If not, let me know and I'll open the floor to vote on any amendments which are regarded as not friendly.

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[Purple State]

Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith. All voting citizens of the Mideast may participate in said Convention.  Upon convening, members of the Convention shall set down rules of order, which will be passed by simple majority of those present at the convention.

B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. Said vote shall be held according to the regulations of Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1 of the current Mideast Constitution.

C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast.
           1) Any citizen of the Mideast shall be eligible as a candidate for presiding officer as long as:
                      i) They are eligible to hold office under Atlasian law.
                      ii) Candidacy for the office of presiding officer is supported by no less than two other
                          citizens of the Mideast before the election is held.
           2) Elections for the presiding officer will be held every seven days throughout the duration
               of the Convention. There is no limit on consecutive or total elections to the seat of
               presiding officer.
                      i) Elections for the presiding officer shall always have the option of write-in for
                         voters.
                      ii) In order to write-in a candidate or option, the voter shall not need to explicitly
                          specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate or option.
                      iii) In order for write-in votes for a candidate for election to qualify as legal votes,
                           the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end
                          of voting in the given election.

D) All elections and votes required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all current Mideast residents to be valid.


That is what I have so far. Because the entire Convention is not actually legally binding the format and procedure does not need to be done through formal means such as a voting booth. All of it can be done within the Convention thread except for the final vote before the people. This way we don't need to avoid any problems with who is allowed to do what in the legal realm of Atlasian or Mideastern governance. It is sort of a fact-finding committee to reform the Constitution. We just need guidelines to make sure the new Constitution is a) an improvement over the current one and b) crafted with the voice of the people to ensure that it passes and serves the constituency.

Regarding delegates vs. anyone, I think it is best to leave it to everyone. There aren't even 20 people in the region and I presume the bylaws that we pass at the start of the Convention will include a provision that would require only 50% of all citizens of the Mideast to be involved in the vote. If it becomes a problem we can always revise the bylaws to create elected delegates that would be voting instead.

Also, in Section B the additional voting requirements was more for in the Convention itself which will be more elaborately and explicitly laid out in the bylaws and procedural rules that will have to be implemented.

So let's keep revising this and see where we can get.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

That is what I have so far. Because the entire Convention is not actually legally binding the format and procedure does not need to be done through formal means such as a voting booth. All of it can be done within the Convention thread except for the final vote before the people. This way we don't need to avoid any problems with who is allowed to do what in the legal realm of Atlasian or Mideastern governance. It is sort of a fact-finding committee to reform the Constitution. We just need guidelines to make sure the new Constitution is a) an improvement over the current one and b) crafted with the voice of the people to ensure that it passes and serves the constituency.

Right - I had planned on the Governor doing the booth for presiding officer over the convention, but what you just rewrote alleviates the problem of having the Governor open it.  The only question I have for you now is, who will be in charge of the initial election for presiding officer (since the presiding officer can be in charge of further elections once he takes his position).

[Purple State]

How about the Speaker of the Assembly just to make it quick and easy. After that we can setup bylaws to possibly open other bureaucratic posts like a Secretary to make sure everything is taken down and organized.

So this is what we are looking at:

Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith. All voting citizens of the Mideast may participate in said Convention.  Upon convening, members of the Convention shall set down rules of order, which will be passed by simple majority of those present at the convention.

B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. Said vote shall be held according to the regulations of Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1 of the current Mideast Constitution.

C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast. Until such a time as the presiding officer shall be elected, the Convention shall be conducted by the current Speaker of the Assembly as chosen my a majority vote by the Mideast Assembly.
           1) Any citizen of the Mideast shall be eligible as a candidate for presiding officer as long as:
                      i) They are eligible to hold office under Atlasian law.
                      ii) Candidacy for the office of presiding officer is supported by no less than two other
                          citizens of the Mideast before the election is held.
           2) Elections for the presiding officer will be held every seven days throughout the duration
               of the Convention. There is no limit on consecutive or total elections to the seat of
               presiding officer.
                      i) Elections for the presiding officer shall always have the option of write-in for
                         voters.
                      ii) In order to write-in a candidate or option, the voter shall not need to explicitly
                          specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate or option.
                      iii) In order for write-in votes for a candidate for election to qualify as legal votes,
                           the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end
                          of voting in the given election.

D) All elections and votes required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all current Mideast residents to be valid.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

How about the Speaker of the Assembly just to make it quick and easy. After that we can setup bylaws to possibly open other bureaucratic posts like a Secretary to make sure everything is taken down and organized.

By "we" do you mean the convention participants?  I'd like to keep the Assembly out of this as much as possible.

[Lunar]

Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

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Since this was eventually proven fruitless due to the onslaught, I feel this bill should be rethought.  Although I still applaud MasterJedi and Gustaf for their initial and valiant efforts.

hrrhmm

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

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Since this was eventually proven fruitless due to the onslaught, I feel this bill should be rethought.  Although I still applaud MasterJedi and Gustaf for their initial and valiant efforts.

hrrhmm

The onslaught was impossible to avoid since Dave didn't ban Ogis.  I stand by that legislation.

[Lunar]

I suppose.

And I wholly admire Gustaf and MasterJedi's efforts.  But to declare a day as "Troll Resistance Day" mere days before one of the worst troll onslaughts seems misplaced.

I'd still advocate something honoring our two moderators (can the president simply give them a medal of honor each?).

[Purple State]

How about the Speaker of the Assembly just to make it quick and easy. After that we can setup bylaws to possibly open other bureaucratic posts like a Secretary to make sure everything is taken down and organized.

By "we" do you mean the convention participants?  I'd like to keep the Assembly out of this as much as possible.

Yes, sorry for not making that clearer. I meant the entire group participating in the Convention. For all intents and purposes current legal positions in the Mideast are not maintained as part of the Convention. The only carry-over is a brief tenure for the Speaker to hold an election for the presiding officer. After that the Assembly has no significance in the Convention. We are all just citizens there.

I suppose.

And I wholly admire Gustaf and MasterJedi's efforts.  But to declare a day as "Troll Resistance Day" mere days before one of the worst troll onslaughts seems misplaced.

I'd still advocate something honoring our two moderators (can the president simply give them a medal of honor each?).

But the resistance did start to fight back on that day. That upset the balance that had been in place and so the trolls went crazy.

I agree with a presidential medal to the two, but it should be commemorated each year and the resistance should be recognized by every region.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'm happy with the 3C bill as it stands now.  Are we prepared to bring it to a vote?

[Purple State]

Go for it Mr. Speaker. If it passes do we start right away or must we wait the three days after passage to begin implementation?

I do wish we received more input from the rest of the people of the Mideast. If it is hard to get a quorum present and voting the Convention may crash and burn relatively quickly. Can we assume that people will swing by and cast votes at some point?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Go for it Mr. Speaker. If it passes do we start right away or must we wait the three days after passage to begin implementation?

I do wish we received more input from the rest of the people of the Mideast. If it is hard to get a quorum present and voting the Convention may crash and burn relatively quickly. Can we assume that people will swing by and cast votes at some point?

That's a pretty large assumption, but I think we've gotten a lot of participation in the current amendment vote.  However, now that you brought it up again, I think 50% may be a little too high.  Perhaps that should be the initial standard but we'll put in a provision to allow the convention to lower that number to no lower than say, 1/3 of the voters, if necessary?

Sorry - but I have to go do some stuff - I'll be back later to work over the bill some more.

[Purple State]

Revised and final (?) version:

Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith. All voting citizens of the Mideast may participate in said Convention.  Upon convening, members of the Convention shall set down rules of order, which will be passed by simple majority of those present at the convention.

B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. Said vote shall be held according to the regulations of Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1 of the current Mideast Constitution.

C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast. Until such a time as the presiding officer shall be elected, the Convention shall be conducted by the current Speaker of the Assembly as chosen my a majority vote by the Mideast Assembly.
           1) Any citizen of the Mideast shall be eligible as a candidate for presiding officer as long as:
                      i) They are eligible to hold office under Atlasian law.
                      ii) Candidacy for the office of presiding officer is supported by no less than two other
                          citizens of the Mideast before the election is held.
           2) Elections for the presiding officer will be held every seven days throughout the duration
               of the Convention. There is no limit on consecutive or total elections to the seat of
               presiding officer.
                      i) Elections for the presiding officer shall always have the option of write-in for
                         voters.
                      ii) In order to write-in a candidate or option, the voter shall not need to explicitly
                          specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate or option.
                      iii) In order for write-in votes for a candidate for election to qualify as legal votes,
                           the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end
                          of voting in the given election.

D) All elections and votes required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all Mideast residents at the start of the election or vote to be valid unless otherwise determined by the aforementioned rules of order. The required participation may not be determined to be any less than one-third of all Mideast residents at the start of the election or vote.


No worries. Take your time. It will give people the opportunity to see it and comment as well.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

OK, a couple more changes I'd like to see:

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Other than those 2 things, I think it's good.  If you accept those as friendly amendments, I'll put it up for a vote, otherwise I'll have the Assembly vote on the 2nd amendment (I'm assuming you'll accept the 1st amendment fixing the typo).