Biden condemns ICC for requesting an arrest warrant for Netanyahu

[Red Velvet]

Pathetic move from Biden. All that energy wasted. Americans need help.

Especially since Putin can now easily also evade the arrest warrant without loss of reputation or prestige loss, since well his big enemy isn't taking ICC seriously.

Also how ridicilous is it that as a nation you are sanctioning an international independent organisation that hasn't committed a criminal act... .

Nobody is going to take this serious and USA will actively obstruct international organisations once again. Why did people vote Trump out. This is just more of the same ("NATO bad", "UN is a joke", etc that kind of stuff).

Maybe the US needs to stop being part of international organizations if they have no intentions of obeying or engaging with them anyways. A problem they already have for over a century given the failure of League of Nations too.

The USA has been giving a great gift or way out for Putin and that all because Biden feels such a strong need to protect Bibi... who clearly ordered at the very least war crimes.

Wait, are people saying that USA approach to geopolitics only VALIDATES and STRENGTHENS Russia to do the exact same thing without being pressured to change???

PROGRESS! I didn’t expect this from Atlas tbh.

Now it’s very close to people understanding Global South leaderships cynicism regarding moral claims being thrown out by the West and by Russia. Those are the SAME bad elements who only instrumentalize a moral narrative to validate the pursuit of their individual self-interests instead of really believing in all the fake-superior moral claims they make.

“It’s wrong to invade other countries” is only used as a lecture by the West when there’s white politically aligned country in danger but WILL NEVER be used by governments on same level to criticize the Invasion of Gaza.

Global South knows it’s not white and it’s on the position that they will always be the villains in this double standard created, being much more interesting and strategic to break this system entirely than any position on any specific individual matter.

[Brittain33]

You do remember what event triggered the “Invasion of Gaza”, don’t you?

[Hindsight was 2020]

All Biden had to do was shut up and sit this one out, this does nothing but undermine the international law we are supposed to be leading all for a government that does nothing for us

[Rubensim]

It hilarious seeing red avatars insulting and calling joe sleepy
Guess donnie was right about joe now.

[Brittain33]

It hilarious seeing red avatars insulting and calling joe sleepy

That one recent poster doesn’t count - his Forum persona is to be a Dem doomer.

[Ancestral Republican]

It's the wrong thing for Biden to do - you are protecting Bibi, not Israel. Whatever one feels about Israel and its relationship to the United States, we in no circumstance owe a duty to any political figures in Israel.

The ICC (flawed though it may be) is the only venue where the victims of things like genocide and war crimes can ever hope to see any measure of justice.
OSR citing America's policy to invade the Hague if any American war criminals are ever tried there to defend Bibi here is laughable. In America war criminals get show trials and acquittals (Eddie Gallagher) instead of justice. Our last president even made it his personal mission to pardon people who had been convicted or even found liable for war crimes. This is a perfect example of why states are not able to prosecute their own effectively.

In practice, the ICC has really only been able to prosecute people who have lost power (Milosevic, al-Bashir.) I don't think Israel will ever get to the point where they are willing to hand this lunatic over, but if this warrant recommendation does anything, I hope it is to further isolate Netanyahu and his far right cronies within Israel and motivate the country to bring someone in who's actually amenable to peace or at least to sensibility (Gantz.) Israel needs an actual plan to complete its mission and install functioning state agencies in Palestinian areas. You aren't going to do that as long as Hamas and the guy who loves and promoted their presence and growth (Netanyahu) remain in charge.

[Sir Mohamed]

You do remember what event triggered the “Invasion of Gaza”, don’t you?

Yup, I honestly don't understand the outrage here. Especially since the US doesn't recognize the court anyway and Biden's expression don't have any consequences in action. It's not like he has  control over the court. No offense, if anything, it's just an excuse to back off supporting him.

[lfromnj]

It's the wrong thing for Biden to do - you are protecting Bibi, not Israel. Whatever one feels about Israel and its relationship to the United States, we in no circumstance owe a duty to any political figures in Israel.

The ICC (flawed though it may be) is the only venue where the victims of things like genocide and war crimes can ever hope to see any measure of justice.
OSR citing America's policy to invade the Hague if any American war criminals are ever tried there to defend Bibi here is laughable. In America war criminals get show trials and acquittals (Eddie Gallagher) instead of justice. Our last president even made it his personal mission to pardon people who had been convicted or even found liable for war crimes. This is a perfect example of why states are not able to prosecute their own effectively.

In practice, the ICC has really only been able to prosecute people who have lost power (Milosevic, al-Bashir.) I don't think Israel will ever get to the point where they are willing to hand this lunatic over, but if this warrant recommendation does anything, I hope it is to further isolate Netanyahu and his far right cronies within Israel and motivate the country to bring someone in who's actually amenable to peace or at least to sensibility (Gantz.) Israel needs an actual plan to complete its mission and install functioning state agencies in Palestinian areas. You aren't going to do that as long as Hamas and the guy who loves and promoted their presence and growth (Netanyahu) remain in charge.

Doesn't this boost Bibi support?
Along with that the indictment of Gallant pushes Gallant closer into the Bibi ship despite Gallant being the most anti Bibi member in the 64 member original coalitian.

[Ancestral Republican]

It's the wrong thing for Biden to do - you are protecting Bibi, not Israel. Whatever one feels about Israel and its relationship to the United States, we in no circumstance owe a duty to any political figures in Israel.

The ICC (flawed though it may be) is the only venue where the victims of things like genocide and war crimes can ever hope to see any measure of justice.
OSR citing America's policy to invade the Hague if any American war criminals are ever tried there to defend Bibi here is laughable. In America war criminals get show trials and acquittals (Eddie Gallagher) instead of justice. Our last president even made it his personal mission to pardon people who had been convicted or even found liable for war crimes. This is a perfect example of why states are not able to prosecute their own effectively.

In practice, the ICC has really only been able to prosecute people who have lost power (Milosevic, al-Bashir.) I don't think Israel will ever get to the point where they are willing to hand this lunatic over, but if this warrant recommendation does anything, I hope it is to further isolate Netanyahu and his far right cronies within Israel and motivate the country to bring someone in who's actually amenable to peace or at least to sensibility (Gantz.) Israel needs an actual plan to complete its mission and install functioning state agencies in Palestinian areas. You aren't going to do that as long as Hamas and the guy who loves and promoted their presence and growth (Netanyahu) remain in charge.

Doesn't this boost Bibi support?
Along with that the indictment of Gallant pushes Gallant closer into the Bibi ship despite Gallant being the most anti Bibi member in the 64 member original coalitian.

Don't think so. It may galvanize Bibi dead-enders but if you oppose Bibi because of his mishandling this, it's not going to bring you back into the fold.

Unsure on Gallant. He's very angry about this but he's still keenly aware the present status quo is untenable. This perhaps provides still more evidence for that.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Pathetic move from Biden. All that energy wasted. Americans need help.

Especially since Putin can now easily also evade the arrest warrant without loss of reputation or prestige loss, since well his big enemy isn't taking ICC seriously.

Also how ridicilous is it that as a nation you are sanctioning an international independent organisation that hasn't committed a criminal act... .

Nobody is going to take this serious and USA will actively obstruct international organisations once again. Why did people vote Trump out. This is just more of the same ("NATO bad", "UN is a joke", etc that kind of stuff).

Maybe the US needs to stop being part of international organizations if they have no intentions of obeying or engaging with them anyways. A problem they already have for over a century given the failure of League of Nations too.

The USA has been giving a great gift or way out for Putin and that all because Biden feels such a strong need to protect Bibi... who clearly ordered at the very least war crimes.

Wait, are people saying that USA approach to geopolitics only VALIDATES and STRENGTHENS Russia to do the exact same thing without being pressured to change???

PROGRESS! I didn’t expect this from Atlas tbh.

Now it’s very close to people understanding Global South leaderships cynicism regarding moral claims being thrown out by the West and by Russia. Those are the SAME bad elements who only instrumentalize a moral narrative to validate the pursuit of their individual self-interests instead of really believing in all the fake-superior moral claims they make.

“It’s wrong to invade other countries” is only used as a lecture by the West when there’s white politically aligned country in danger but WILL NEVER be used by governments on same level to criticize the Invasion of Gaza.

Global South knows it’s not white and it’s on the position that they will always be the villains in this double standard created, being much more interesting and strategic to break this system entirely than any position on any specific individual matter.

Israel Palestine is not a white vs non white conflict no matter how much you try to make it seem . In fact if you want to argue anything it’s the opposite as Israel is actually an example of an anti colonial state . You had people who got their land back after centuries of colonization by Christians and Muslims and the reaction to that was being attacked by multiple Arab states who wanted that land for themselves.

[OSR stands with Israel]

You do remember what event triggered the “Invasion of Gaza”, don’t you?

Yup, I honestly don't understand the outrage here. Especially since the US doesn't recognize the court anyway and Biden's expression don't have any consequences in action. It's not like he has  control over the court. No offense, if anything, it's just an excuse to back off supporting him.

These courts along with a lot of international institutions are frankly just Europeans trying to keep their relevance in the modern age . That’s basically what it is

[Brittain33]

I have mixed feelings between being thankful for ANYTHING that can seriously restrain Netanyahu and recognizing the limited jurisdiction of this court when it comes to America and for good reason.

I approve of how they handled the genocide accusation but it’s not an established part of the international order.

[Ancestral Republican]

This doesn't help Gallant elicit sympathy from me.

He decided this was the perfect time to re-occupy some illegal settlements in the West Bank.

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1793289361733120357

[OSR stands with Israel]

Pathetic move from Biden. All that energy wasted. Americans need help.

Especially since Putin can now easily also evade the arrest warrant without loss of reputation or prestige loss, since well his big enemy isn't taking ICC seriously.

Also how ridicilous is it that as a nation you are sanctioning an international independent organisation that hasn't committed a criminal act... .

Nobody is going to take this serious and USA will actively obstruct international organisations once again. Why did people vote Trump out. This is just more of the same ("NATO bad", "UN is a joke", etc that kind of stuff).

Maybe the US needs to stop being part of international organizations if they have no intentions of obeying or engaging with them anyways. A problem they already have for over a century given the failure of League of Nations too.

The USA has been giving a great gift or way out for Putin and that all because Biden feels such a strong need to protect Bibi... who clearly ordered at the very least war crimes.

Putin was never being arrested due to some ICC warrant. Arresting another nation’s leader is tantamount to declaration of war and there is no way in hell any nation is gonna go to war with Russia just to enforce an ICC warrant.

[Ancestral Republican]

Pathetic move from Biden. All that energy wasted. Americans need help.

Especially since Putin can now easily also evade the arrest warrant without loss of reputation or prestige loss, since well his big enemy isn't taking ICC seriously.

Also how ridicilous is it that as a nation you are sanctioning an international independent organisation that hasn't committed a criminal act... .

Nobody is going to take this serious and USA will actively obstruct international organisations once again. Why did people vote Trump out. This is just more of the same ("NATO bad", "UN is a joke", etc that kind of stuff).

Maybe the US needs to stop being part of international organizations if they have no intentions of obeying or engaging with them anyways. A problem they already have for over a century given the failure of League of Nations too.

The USA has been giving a great gift or way out for Putin and that all because Biden feels such a strong need to protect Bibi... who clearly ordered at the very least war crimes.

Putin was never being arrested due to some ICC warrant. Arresting another nation’s leader is tantamount to declaration of war and there is no way in hell any nation is gonna go to war with Russia just to enforce an ICC warrant.

You can argue on whether the Putin arrest warrant made a practical difference - tbf, he certainly isn't planning on visiting any functioning democracies soon and that didn't help - but as to whether he deserved it, he absolutely did.

Attacking the ICC because a committee there made a recommendation (that seems to be getting widespread international support) does give tyrants future leverage against prosecution. Even the few countries that aren't fully in the support camp for this warrant, like Germany and Canada, are still careful to say they respect the independence and necessity of the ICC. It's only the US and Israel that are attacking the institution itself.This is an insidious line of reasoning to take.

[YE]

It hilarious seeing red avatars insulting and calling joe sleepy
Guess donnie was right about joe now.

Only person calling him “sleepy Joe” is a longtime concern troll.

I disagree with Biden here strongly but I’m still voting for and have a positive opinion of his presidency as a whole.

[pppolitics]

You do remember what event triggered the “Invasion of Gaza”, don’t you?

Yup, I honestly don't understand the outrage here. Especially since the US doesn't recognize the court anyway and Biden's expression don't have any consequences in action. It's not like he has  control over the court. No offense, if anything, it's just an excuse to back off supporting him.

It shows the world that the US doesn’t respect international laws.

It undermines the US’s moral authority and emboldens US’s adversaries.

[wnwnwn]

People, don't forget that a lot of mizhari and sephardic jews were expulsen from various MENA countries, and they won't go back to them.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

People, don't forget that a lot of mizhari and sephardic jews were expulsen from various MENA countries, and they won't go back to them.

Of course; Thats obvious but who in this thread is arguing that they should be sent back there ?

[wnwnwn]

I was justifying Israel (and most IDF actions...), and I expected to be obvious by it.

[All Along The Watchtower]

This doesn't help Gallant elicit sympathy from me.

He decided this was the perfect time to re-occupy some illegal settlements in the West Bank.

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1793289361733120357

The Israeli government’s support for/failure to stop settlements in the West Bank is so obviously indefensible that it should enough of a reason by itself for Israel to lose all support and be sanctioned as a pariah state.

[HisGrace]

Israel has the capacity to kill every living thing in Gaza a very short time frame, the fact that they haven't done that proves that that's not what their intentions are.

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part,a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

http://www.preventgenocide.org/law/convention/text.htm

That's pretty absurdly broad, literally every war ever could be considered a genocide committed by both sides if that's the standard which makes it pretty meaningless. Hamas's actions would constitute genocide as well based on those standards so why am I not hearing anything about Hamas's genocide in Israel?

Like, in WWII we certainly "killed members of the group" (German and Japanese soldiers and also civilians) and deliberately brought about conditions to destroy them in part (destroying their army and infrastructure). So I guess Truman, Eisenhower and the entire Allied leadership should have been tried for crimes against humanity right along with the Nazis and executed after the war since you apparently can't make a distinction between killing individual members of a group for specific reasons and trying to wipe the entire group out.

These kind of broad moral standards are in fact not the result of a kind bleeding heart but from people who want to make excuses for evil by equating the actions of people defending themselves with those of the aggressor.

[HisGrace]

And is every individual murder a genocide then? Everyone is the member of some kind of group so if he gets killed the killer "killed members of the group". This is so stupid.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Israel has the capacity to kill every living thing in Gaza a very short time frame, the fact that they haven't done that proves that that's not what their intentions are.

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part,a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

http://www.preventgenocide.org/law/convention/text.htm

That's pretty absurdly broad, literally every war ever could be considered a genocide committed by both sides if that's the standard which makes it pretty meaningless. Hamas's actions would constitute genocide as well based on those standards so why am I not hearing anything about Hamas's genocide in Israel?

Like, in WWII we certainly "killed members of the group" (German and Japanese soldiers and also civilians) and deliberately brought about conditions to destroy them in part (destroying their army and infrastructure). So I guess Truman, Eisenhower and the entire Allied leadership should have been tried for crimes against humanity right along with the Nazis and executed after the war since you apparently can't make a distinction between killing individual members of a group for specific reasons and trying to wipe the entire group out.

These kind of broad moral standards are in fact not the result of a kind bleeding heart but from people who want to make excuses for evil by equating the actions of people defending themselves with those of the aggressor.

Look man I don’t know what your deal is but I’m not going to defend tens of thousands of Palestinians dying and the displacement of two million more. Also if you haven’t noticed  much of international law comes from after WWII so just stop invoking that era as a “gotcha”, it’s tedious and beside the point.

“What about the Allies in WWII” dude children in Gaza are starving

[HisGrace]

Israel has the capacity to kill every living thing in Gaza a very short time frame, the fact that they haven't done that proves that that's not what their intentions are.

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part,a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

http://www.preventgenocide.org/law/convention/text.htm

That's pretty absurdly broad, literally every war ever could be considered a genocide committed by both sides if that's the standard which makes it pretty meaningless. Hamas's actions would constitute genocide as well based on those standards so why am I not hearing anything about Hamas's genocide in Israel?

Like, in WWII we certainly "killed members of the group" (German and Japanese soldiers and also civilians) and deliberately brought about conditions to destroy them in part (destroying their army and infrastructure). So I guess Truman, Eisenhower and the entire Allied leadership should have been tried for crimes against humanity right along with the Nazis and executed after the war since you apparently can't make a distinction between killing individual members of a group for specific reasons and trying to wipe the entire group out.

These kind of broad moral standards are in fact not the result of a kind bleeding heart but from people who want to make excuses for evil by equating the actions of people defending themselves with those of the aggressor.

Look man I don’t know what your deal is but I’m not going to defend tens of thousands of Palestinians dying and the displacement of two million more. Also if you haven’t noticed  much of international law comes from after WWII so just stop invoking that era as a “gotcha”, it’s tedious and beside the point.

“What about the Allies in WWII” dude children in Gaza are starving

Are you you literally suggesting that killing any one single person constitutes a genocide? Because that's what a plain reading of that would indicate. It's a meaningless platitude as you would expect from the ICC.

Well the Allies also had blockades of Germany and Japan during WWII resulting in hundreds of thousands of civilians starving to death and I've never heard anyone object to that or suggest it was unwarranted given the circumstances, which are the same circumstances Israel is in now, an adversary who attacked them first and wants to completely destroy their country. The only people who object to the blockade of the south in the Civil War are neo Confederate douchebags, kind of like pro Hamas douchebags are doing with this.

I've never heard anyone suggest what they think Israel should be doing differently here besides sitting on their hands and letting Hamas kill and rape the entire population with impunity. Which if it happened wouldn't generate 1% of the outrage from the same people complaining about this, gee I wonder why?