Conservatives angry at Airline CEO focusing on DEI policies implying “too many” White men in industr

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

If any industry needs some diversifying its pilots. 80-90% or pilots are men.

Not sure why the percentage of pilots that are men is at all relevant so long as the companies are hiring the most qualified applicants

Because unless One Believes there is some inherent inability of women to distract their brains from Cosmos and makeup and wrap them around the concept of controlled flight, and 80 to 90% ratio of male Pilots clearly indicates that ratio has as much or more to do with the good old boys network - literally - and other factors making the industry on well to women rather than truly getting the best and brightest for the job.

Or maybe women just aren’t as interested in becoming pilots for whatever reason

Post like this reinforce the notion that Atlas is chock full of people who need to get out of their mother's basement far more often.

This might just be the most Badger post ever

Very weak retort. Especially considering your post I was responding to sounds like something one would type just before their mother called them to let them know their chicken nuggys were ready.

" maybe women just don't want to be pilots " Views like this will not help you finally get a girlfriend.

Yes I'm a basement dwelling incel because I think that some careers may be more appealing to one gender than the other for whatever reason. You're very smart and in touch with reality

Clearly we need to bust up the girl's club dominating the fashion, education, human resources, childcare, and salon/spa industries. If it weren't for the toxic sex discrimination in our society, all of these areas would surely be 50% male.

If you open up professions that defacto exclude or largely exclude women, it stands to reason that women with more opportunities would not need to crowd such fields as fashion, education, human resources, childcare and salon/spa. (If it even is the case that women dominate those sectors, since I know that you often post things you don't know are correct.)

I appreciate this is basic logic and common sense, but I'm aware that these things are beyond your capabilities.

Of course, if it is the case that there is discrimination against men in these fields, that's wrong as well and also needs to be dealt with.

[Badger]

If any industry needs some diversifying its pilots. 80-90% or pilots are men.

Not sure why the percentage of pilots that are men is at all relevant so long as the companies are hiring the most qualified applicants

From a purely statistical standpoint that doesn’t hold water. No way 80% of pilots are men just because “they make the best pilots” or whatever.

There's probably much less women than men seeking to become pilots

That’s! Why! DEI! Exists!

To try and include and support all kinds of people to seek and stay in the job so the organization can succeed to the best of its ability.

Do you want DEI to help women seek career in construction workers, truck drivers, firefighters?

Of course

[RINO Tom]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

[GP270watch]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

 So why the need to beat back diversity programs?

[RINO Tom]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

 So why the need to beat back diversity programs?

Not all programs are the same.  Programs that say you need a certain percentage of a group to be of a certain sex are severely misguided and delusional.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

My understanding of this is that I've seen plenty of sexism from men (and from women to other women) as well as read enough studies where, like you, hiring managers outright make comments that they don't want to hire women because they're concerned they'll leave after a few years, to recognize that these issues are real. And, beyond that, that they become self fulfilling prophesies: if women know that hiring managers are unlikely to hire them, they won't even try in the first place.

However, I do find it interesting at least in terms of gender for DEI that you are clearly taking the view here that many and women are fundamentally different beyond physical differences. I personally take an agnostic position on that as I do on many things. I don't need to have an opinion on that to recognize that sexism is real.

But, for this specifically when it comes to women, it makes DEI potentially very interesting. Does the claim that 'men and women are fundamentally different but men can still understand women' seem credible?

If not, then, and I don't think there is a male or female way to fly an airline here in this specific case, but more generally, it makes DEI programs essential because if only women understand women it necessitates if not gender parity, at least a critical mass of women working at banks to ensure women receive loans, it necessitates a critical mass of women engineers to ensure products for women get made, it necessitates a critical mass of women on corporate boards of directors, and so on...

[Ferguson97]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

[Mr. Smith]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

 So why the need to beat back diversity programs?

Not all programs are the same.  Programs that say you need a certain percentage of a group to be of a certain sex are severely misguided and delusional.

Only in the sense of trying to quantify it down to an exact, but opening things up per se is quite the opposite of misguided.

[John Dule]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Just for the record, the norm is to write and to say 'men and women' not 'males and females'. People will make assumptions if you use the latter.

[GP270watch]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

 So why the need to beat back diversity programs?

Not all programs are the same.  Programs that say you need a certain percentage of a group to be of a certain sex are severely misguided and delusional.

  People do face adversity trying to break into certain fields. That's literally why most diversity and inclusion programs exist. You are using bad logic, claiming certain careers are just benignly unequal but then demonizing programs trying to address when there is discrimination. It's a very dishonest take.

 

[lfromnj]

Just for the record, the norm is to write and to say 'men and women' not 'males and females'. People will make assumptions if you use the latter.

Usually the weirdos are those saying men and females. Males and females is a bit weird but nothing crazy .

[Ferguson97]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

How is it a non-sequitur? What else could RINO Tom have been insinuating when he was talking about physiological differences?

[Sopranos Republican]

Guys, I don't think that Dule and the others here are saying that women can't be pilots, or that all women are completely disinterested in being pilots. All they're saying is that there is a more likely explanation than a shadowy cabal of 1940's mustache twirling male pilots, hellbent on keeping women out of the skies.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

Guys, I don't think that Dule and the others here are saying that women can't be pilots, or that all women are completely disinterested in being pilots. All they're saying is that there is a more likely explanation than a shadowy cabal of 1940's mustache twirling male pilots, hellbent on keeping women out of the skies.

That's not how discrimination works.

https://pilotinstitute.com/women-aviation-statistics/

3. Perceptions
Several studies have shown that female pilots tend to be judged more negatively when they make (similar) errors.

More than sexist comments, separate studies have shown that female pilots are judged as being less competent. This trend in responses was observed whether the respondents were male or female, or pilots or non-pilots.

[VBM]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

How is it a non-sequitur? What else could RINO Tom have been insinuating when he was talking about physiological differences?

He said psychological, not physiological

[Badger]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

No, it's exactly on point and a question that conservatives and Libertarians are too gutless and misplaced in their thinking to answer.

[VBM]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

No, it's exactly on point and a question that conservatives and Libertarians are too gutless and misplaced in their thinking to answer.

Literally no one in this thread has said that women are worse pilots. We’re saying that women probably aren’t as interested in being pilots

[Sopranos Republican]

Guys, I don't think that Dule and the others here are saying that women can't be pilots, or that all women are completely disinterested in being pilots. All they're saying is that there is a more likely explanation than a shadowy cabal of 1940's mustache twirling male pilots, hellbent on keeping women out of the skies.

That's not how discrimination works.

https://pilotinstitute.com/women-aviation-statistics/

3. Perceptions
Several studies have shown that female pilots tend to be judged more negatively when they make (similar) errors.

More than sexist comments, separate studies have shown that female pilots are judged as being less competent. This trend in responses was observed whether the respondents were male or female, or pilots or non-pilots.

This "source" you linked to is just some flight school making a blog post clearly trying to optimize the site for SEO. It's in this business' best interest to post somewhat click-baity articles to drive traffic to the site. They also don't cite any of the "several studies" that they mention to support the argument that women are "judged more negatively for errors." Furthermore, none of the metrics used in these studies are specified.

How is the conclusion of said studies even determined here? Are they asking students intentionally leading questions to come to a desired answer? We wouldn't even have any way to know based on the way it's referenced on this website.

[Badger]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

No, it's exactly on point and a question that conservatives and Libertarians are too gutless and misplaced in their thinking to answer.

Literally no one in this thread has said that women are worse pilots. We’re saying that women probably aren’t as interested in being pilots

To a factor that 80 to 90% of Pilots are men, and almost entirely white men at that? Really?

[VBM]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

No, it's exactly on point and a question that conservatives and Libertarians are too gutless and misplaced in their thinking to answer.

Literally no one in this thread has said that women are worse pilots. We’re saying that women probably aren’t as interested in being pilots

To a factor that 80 to 90% of Pilots are men, and almost entirely white men at that? Really?

~90% of truckers are men. ~75% of Uber/Lyft drivers are men. These types of jobs seem to just appeal to a greater percentage of men than women. I find it especially hard to believe that Uber/Lyft are refusing to hire female drivers because of sexism.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

I don’t know why people are using the fact the X career is 90% men that must mean woman just don’t want to be involved.

Computer Sciences used to be dominated by women, but overtime women kept being further and further excluded as it grew in prestige. Today only around 20% of those who work in Conputer Science are women.

Did something change to make it where women were unsuited for the field? No of course not. I cannot think of a job were the physiological differences between men and women would explain why there’s such massive imbalances, especially as they change so much over time. The only reason is cultural perceptions.

[VBM]

I don’t know why people are using the fact the X career is 90% men that must mean woman just don’t want to be involved.

Computer Sciences used to be dominated by women, but overtime women kept being further and further excluded as it grew in prestige. Today only around 20% of those who work in Conputer Science are women.

Did something change to make it where women were unsuited for the field? No of course not. I cannot think of a job were the physiological differences between men and women would explain why there’s such massive imbalances, especially as they change so much over time. The only reason is cultural perceptions.

Men are 50% more likely to get ticketed for speeding than women. Do you think that this is because cops are sexist against men, or do you think it's because men's brains are just generally wired to get more of a thrill out of going fast than women are, and so there simply is just a much larger population of male speeders compared to female speeders? I'd imagine that this is why basically every job which centers around driving a vehicle is heavily male dominated. Not because women are worse drivers than men, not because the people running all these companies are sexist, but rather because there is a much larger pool of male applicants than female applicants due to men generally enjoying the sensation of travelling at high speeds more than women do.

Even if you want to say that pilots, truckers, etc are heavily male dominated because a majority of the public buys into the stereotype that women are worse drivers, and thus these companies avoid hiring women for PR reasons, this doesn't really explain imo why Uber/Lyft drivers are heavily male dominated. A large portion, if not an outright majority, of Uber/Lyft's customers are intoxicated people who need a ride home. I'd imagine that just about every woman (and thus >50% of the population) would greatly prefer that their Uber/Lyft driver be a woman, given the amount of horror stories of creepy male Uber drivers who use their position to prey on vulnerable, usually drunk, women (and the same applies to male Uber customers, but to a lesser extent obviously).

[Ferguson97]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

How is it a non-sequitur? What else could RINO Tom have been insinuating when he was talking about physiological differences?

He said psychological, not physiological

Typo on my part.

What are these supposed psychological differences?

[John Dule]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

How is it a non-sequitur? What else could RINO Tom have been insinuating when he was talking about physiological differences?

He said psychological, not physiological

Typo on my part.

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.