What's your solution for Israel and Palestine?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Here's mine

Palestine gets the pre 1967 borders except East Jerusalem.
Israel and Palestine recognize each other as independent countries.
Jewish settlers in the West Bank probably have to leave, but there might be some option for them to stay.
Some people get dual citizenship.
There will be a peacekeeping force in Gaza to prevent Hamas from seizing power. They will be Muslim whether domestic or foreign.
The US and Israel will contribute an annual amount of money directly to education and infrastructure in Palestine.
There will be a road with fences along it and overpasses allowing travel between Gaza and the West Bank without a checkpoint.
Israel has the option of applying for EU and NATO membership.


Another option: Bosnia and Herzegovina solution with a weak federal government capital in East Jerusalem.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

1967/Green Line borders.

Jerusalem becomes a neutral zone with UN peacekeepers. Tel Aviv becomes Israel's capital and Ramallah Palestine's.

Israel and Palestine recognize each other and under binding agreement have several joint projects regarding infrastructure development, educational development, healthcare improvement, anti-terrorism measures, and economic ties with each other to make war breaking out an impossible thought due to these ties, much like how war between western European powers seems impossible now because of the EU.

Jewish settlers in the west bank are given the option to go back to Israel with their belongings, or offered citizenship.

Dual citizenship is possible.

A closed and guarded corridor between the west bank and gaza is created to allow movement from one part of Palestine to the other, without having to deal with checkpoints.



Most of this is of course the ideal, which is unlikely. The amount of animosity currently existing makes point 3 especially seem impossible.

[dead0man]

Here's mine

Palestine gets the pre 1967 borders except East Jerusalem.
Israel and Palestine recognize each other as independent countries.
Jewish settlers in the West Bank probably have to leave, but there might be some option for them to stay.
Some people get dual citizenship.
There will be a peacekeeping force in Gaza to prevent Hamas from seizing power. They will be Muslim whether domestic or foreign.
The US and Israel will contribute an annual amount of money directly to education and infrastructure in Palestine.
There will be a road with fences along it and overpasses allowing travel between Gaza and the West Bank without a checkpoint.
Israel has the option of applying for EU and NATO membership.

lets say this happens and inevitably the Palestinian govt fails to prevent (or more likely allows/supports) rockets being fired by angry children* at civilians in Israel?  A NATO with Israel in it would...interesting in such a situation.  How the hell are we going to get Turkey to agree to that though?  They held the entire process hostage when Sweden and Finland wanted to join, imagine the temper tantrum Eddie will have if Israel applies?



*because there will be a large segment of the population that will not be pacified by these appeasements

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

A Peace treaty that established a 2 state solution.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

If given total dictatorial power? Do you want my actual take?

1. The creation of a single, binational (well, more than that--Druze, Armenians, etc.), secular state covering the territory of Israel (minus the Golan Heights, which will be returned to Syria), the West Bank, and Gaza, with its capital in a united Jerusalem.

2. The creation of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to investigate war crimes and crimes against humanity from 1948 (or slightly earlier) to the present. Trials for Hamas and Israeli military and civilian leadership as needed. All militant groups disarmed and replaced by a single defense force.

3. Military neutrality and renouncing of nuclear weapons.

4. Right of return maintained for the global Jewish diaspora (with some limits--Israel is currently a haven for accused sex criminals who happen to be Jewish) and extended to Palestinian refugees.

[lfromnj]

Two state with mostly 67 borders
Exclave settlers kicked out . Settlers that are directly on the borders can stay. East Jerusalem is either an international city or mostly stays under Israeli control as they have done more to protect religious freedom than what I expect any Muslim state to do.

[Aurelius2]

Gaza becomes some sort of protectorate, I don't particularly care who administers it because literally anyone else will be better than Hamas.

Israel annexes the West Bank, granting full citizenship to all residents regardless of religion or ethnicity, and embarking on a program to deradicalize those Palestinians sympathetic to terrorist groups. Ideally within a decade most Palestinians can vote in elections, etc.

For the latter part, the only question is whether to just do it now to rip the bandaid off, or delay a decade or so to strengthen Israel's demographic cushion. Such a cushion is needed to ensure Israel can remain both Jewish and democratic after the annexation.

The status quo on the Temple Mount is also unacceptable, though understandable given the fraught circumstances. Any true solution needs to include an allowance for Jews to pray on the Mount - our holiest site -  on at least some fixed number of days each year.

[Ferguson97]

There's no One Weird Trick to solving a centuries-old ethno-religious conflict. No matter where you put the borders, there will always be a massive portion of the population who wants to kill all the Jews and another massive portion of the population who wants to kill all the Muslims.

The best that we can do is provide funding for infrastructure so that people are less likely to become terrorists, and allow for time to pass so that the region secularizes.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

One state solution under my benevolent and just reign

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

One state solution under my rule

Surprised you didn't say restore the ottomans

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

One state solution under my rule

Surprised you didn't say restore the ottomans

I mean, I was going to, but that would've been too predictable

[LabourJersey]

There's no One Weird Trick to solving a centuries-old ethno-religious conflict. No matter where you put the borders, there will always be a massive portion of the population who wants to kill all the Jews and another massive portion of the population who wants to kill all the Muslims.

The best that we can do is provide funding for infrastructure so that people are less likely to become terrorists, and allow for time to pass so that the region secularizes.

I don't disagree with the rest of your take, but I don't buy that secularization is something that's inevitable with the passage of time.

Many younger Israelis are quite religious and observant, even outside of the Haredim. Many younger Muslims can be the same.

Secularization in the manner of Europe and much of the US is not a certainty and may have been more conditional on certain factors than just the passage of time/growing affluence/growing education.

[American2020]

It isn't my solution.

I report what I found on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/CMbongoOfficiel/status/1711492110329790629

It won't work.

[TheReckoning]

Borders based on 2023 Ethnic lines. Jews outside Jewish-majority areas can move to Israel, and Arabs outside Arab majority places can move to Palestine. Otherwise, everyone becomes a full citizen of whatever country they live in.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Time to prohibit all trading with Israel and suspend all aid. Revoke the citizenship of any American living in a West Bank settlement. Declare Netanyahu and the rest of the Hasidim clowns in the government persona non grata. Immediately recognize the independence of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza (don't actually recognize the current governments of those areas, just that the US acknowledges that those areas should be independent). Continue all of this until the Israeli government agrees to the following very reasonable imo demands:

(Assuming it was signed tomorrow)
-The ultra-orthodox/hasidic parties will immediately resign from the Knesset
-All Israeli settlers will be expelled with compensation within the next 12 months, with those who refuse being forcibly removed without compensation over the following 6 months. Haredi Jews who refuse to leave will lose their voting rights.
-Palestine holds free elections by December of 2024 with all non-settler residents being allowed to vote. International inspectors from the EU, Carter Center, and other groups which aren't blindingly biased monitor the results. Fatah and Hamas will be banned for a new slate. These elections will be for a constitutional convention, which will decide on a new form of government (parliamentary, presidential, etc). Elections for that new government will take place by December of 2025.
-Palestine must ensure freedom of religion and freedoms for women. Not like western level immediately, but perhaps Jordan at a bare minimum.
-Palestine gets full national sovereignty over its territory. This includes areas A, B, and C in the Oslo Accords, with possible joint security areas/border changes around Jerusalem. Israeli forces will provide training as needed. This will conclude by 2026.
-Palestine gradually takes control of all public services (health, security, etc) slowly, beginning in 2024 and ending in 2029.
-Palestine will get several billion in aid per year financed mostly by the Israeli government but with contributions from the Arab world so they finally put their money where their mouth is. However, they will have to allow UN observers to monitor their spending for at least ten years so the money actually flows towards helping people.
-Palestine will get relief from all existing sanctions, again for a 'fresh slate'.
-Hamas's "government" in Gaza will be eliminated in one way or another, preferably involving the UN or at worst Egypt. Israel won't be involved, although the UN will pay for any ammunition wasted on shooting down rockets along with compensation to any individuals killed/wounded and any property damaged.
-Gaza will be reunited with Palestine proper on January 1, 2031 if all goes to plan.
-Palestinians who are still living who had their property taken away will be allowed to return with compensation. Their descendants will be permitted to come with after passing a background check.
-Descendants of Palestinians who had their land stolen who are no longer alive will receive visas and compensation.

If the coalition refuses these demands (which they will) they will prove they just hate Muslims (which they do). In that case, continue to impose the sanctions with increasing severity until Israel holds another election and a government is chosen that will.

[Frodo]

A one-state solution, now that it's clear the two-state solution is dead to all intents and purposes.  What kind of a one-state solution is what we should be discussing now.  

[LabourJersey]

Borders based on 2023 Ethnic lines. Jews outside Jewish-majority areas can move to Israel, and Arabs outside Arab majority places can move to Palestine. Otherwise, everyone becomes a full citizen of whatever country they live in.

Isn't this still low-level ethnic cleansing?

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Borders based on 2023 Ethnic lines. Jews outside Jewish-majority areas can move to Israel, and Arabs outside Arab majority places can move to Palestine. Otherwise, everyone becomes a full citizen of whatever country they live in.

Isn't this still low-level ethnic cleansing?

It sounds more like what Greece and Turkey did in the early 20th Century (not ideal, but not genocidial either) than something more insidious.  But, there's no perfect solution here.  I side more with Israel because they're more protective of religious freedom, but there isn't an ideal answer (other than both groups converting to Christianity, of course).

EDIT: I just read up a bit on the population exchange between Greece and Turkey.  It seems worse than I'd remembered, and obviously far from the right situation here.

[Aurelius2]

Borders based on 2023 Ethnic lines. Jews outside Jewish-majority areas can move to Israel, and Arabs outside Arab majority places can move to Palestine. Otherwise, everyone becomes a full citizen of whatever country they live in.

Isn't this still low-level ethnic cleansing?

It sounds more like what Greece and Turkey did in the early 20th Century (not ideal, but not genocidial either) than something more insidious.  But, there's no perfect solution here.  I side more with Israel because they're more protective of religious freedom, but there isn't an ideal answer (other than both groups converting to Christianity, of course).

Dude, this is just gratuitously insulting. We are perfectly fine as we are and we will never convert to a foreign religion. We will sooner be driven from the promised land altogether and go through another crushing exile than adopt the faith of those who have spent 2,000 years seeking to co-opt us at best and erase us at worst.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Borders based on 2023 Ethnic lines. Jews outside Jewish-majority areas can move to Israel, and Arabs outside Arab majority places can move to Palestine. Otherwise, everyone becomes a full citizen of whatever country they live in.

Isn't this still low-level ethnic cleansing?

It sounds more like what Greece and Turkey did in the early 20th Century (not ideal, but not genocidial either) than something more insidious.  But, there's no perfect solution here.  I side more with Israel because they're more protective of religious freedom, but there isn't an ideal answer (other than both groups converting to Christianity, of course).

Dude, this is just gratuitously insulting. We are perfectly fine as we are and we will never convert to a foreign religion. We will sooner be driven from the promised land altogether and go through another crushing exile than adopt the faith of those who have spent 2,000 years seeking to co-opt us at best and erase us at worst.

I meant that statement fairly light-heartedly (though tone is difficult to convey over the internet sometimes).  I do believe that everybody needs to accept Christ, but I just meant that as a light-hearted aside to that post.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Borders based on 2023 Ethnic lines. Jews outside Jewish-majority areas can move to Israel, and Arabs outside Arab majority places can move to Palestine. Otherwise, everyone becomes a full citizen of whatever country they live in.

Isn't this still low-level ethnic cleansing?

It sounds more like what Greece and Turkey did in the early 20th Century (not ideal, but not genocidial either) than something more insidious.  But, there's no perfect solution here.  I side more with Israel because they're more protective of religious freedom, but there isn't an ideal answer (other than both groups converting to Christianity, of course).

EDIT: I just read up a bit on the population exchange between Greece and Turkey.  It seems worse than I'd remembered, and obviously far from the right situation here.

What percentage of Americans could tell you that ~10% of Palestinians are Christian? Callous and offensive post to both Jewish and Muslim believers regardless.

[TheReckoning]

Borders based on 2023 Ethnic lines. Jews outside Jewish-majority areas can move to Israel, and Arabs outside Arab majority places can move to Palestine. Otherwise, everyone becomes a full citizen of whatever country they live in.

Isn't this still low-level ethnic cleansing?

No one’s being forced to move, it’s not ethnic cleansing.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Borders based on 2023 Ethnic lines. Jews outside Jewish-majority areas can move to Israel, and Arabs outside Arab majority places can move to Palestine. Otherwise, everyone becomes a full citizen of whatever country they live in.

Isn't this still low-level ethnic cleansing?

It sounds more like what Greece and Turkey did in the early 20th Century (not ideal, but not genocidial either) than something more insidious.  But, there's no perfect solution here.  I side more with Israel because they're more protective of religious freedom, but there isn't an ideal answer (other than both groups converting to Christianity, of course).

Why is this blatant anti-Semitism (and Islamophobia) tolerated?

[HisGrace]

Send olawakandi to reason with them.

[LBJer]

There's no One Weird Trick to solving a centuries-old ethno-religious conflict.

The conflict began in the latter half of the 19th century; it's not "centuries-old."  You're certainly right that there's no magic trick that will resolve it, though.