Israel-Gaza war

[Velasco]

Nothing particularly moral about voting to abandon Ukraine to the Russian Nazis.

Are you serious? Sanders is asking to stop sending military aid to Israel, a country that is not under Russian attack

[Lief 🗽]

Nothing particularly moral about voting to abandon Ukraine to the Russian Nazis.

Are you serious? Sanders is asking to stop sending military aid to Israel, a country that is not under Russian attack

He’s tweeting about the foreign aid bill, which he voted against, and primarily aids Ukraine.

[Velasco]

Nothing particularly moral about voting to abandon Ukraine to the Russian Nazis.

Are you serious? Sanders is asking to stop sending military aid to Israel, a country that is not under Russian attack

He’s tweeting about the foreign aid bill, which he voted against, and primarily aids Ukraine.

Gross strawman. The reaon to vote against the bill is the aid sent to a country that is committing war crimes in Gaza and Sanders is explicit about it.

 Claiming the opposition to collaborate in the Gaza genocide is equivalent to leave Ukraine alone against Putin's Russia is about as dishonest as conditioning the support to Ukraine to the building of a wall across the Mexican border.

Anyway it will become evident Biden's support to the state committing war crimes in Gaza indirectly leads to leave Ukraine to its own devices. Firstly because support to Israel undermines the liberal "rules based order" invoked to condemn Russia's invasion; secondly because Biden is alienating progressive voters in the US and this could be a factor paving the way for a Trump's comeback (if Trump wins in November, this is likely the end of "liberal order")

[Lief 🗽]

Who cares about the reason for voting for it? Ukraine doesn’t magically get the money if the money was opposed for good reasons.

And I’m not claiming an equivalence. There is an actual bill that Sanders tweeted about opposing, and that actual bill actually contains Ukraine aid.

[Velasco]

Who cares about the reason for voting for it? Ukraine doesn’t magically get the money if the money was opposed for good reasons.

And I’m not claiming an equivalence. There is an actual bill that Sanders tweeted about opposing, and that actual bill actually contains Ukraine aid.

Again, this is a dishonest argument. Conditioning aid to Ukraine to complicity in Gaza's slaughter is not morally acceptable. On the other hand, you know well aid to Ukraine is being sabotaged by the Republican Party, which does not oppose to fund Israel.

Maybe you don't care about morality or other things unrelated to supporting Israel's team, but decency matters. When people in Israel's team say Putin is a "nazi" and stay silent about Netanyahu, they are speaking volumes about their hypocrisy and crumbling sense of morality.

These things matter a lot, since the disregard for decency and morality leads to barbarism - Putin and Netanyahu

[TheReckoning]

Why can’t Israel invade/occupy through the ground? Why must they keep bombing?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Why can’t Israel invade/occupy through the ground? Why must they keep bombing?

Full ground warfare would likely be far deadlier for both sides of the conflict.

[Silent Hunter]

Why can’t Israel invade/occupy through the ground? Why must they keep bombing?

No commander is going to risk his or her troops when it's quicker to bomb the building in question.

[Velasco]

US Senate has passed a bill that probably will contribute to the death of thousands in Gaza, for the URNWA is the only organization with the neccessary infrastructure to conduct aid operations in Gaza. Based on Israel's allegations (involving 13 out of 13,000 employees), the humanitarian organization is deprived of funds and 2 million Gazans are threatened with famine

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1757503725508202705?t=YFFefREZWTAzDbcBUqhL...

[Vosem]

US Senate has passed a bill that probably will contribute to the death of thousands in Gaza, for the URNWA is the only organization with the neccessary infrastructure to conduct aud operations in Gaza. Based on Israel's allegations (involving 13 out of 13,000 employees), the humanitarian organization is deprived of funds and 2 million Gazans are threatened with famine

Organizations not endorsed by the IDF which have the infrastructure to conduct operations in Gaza should not be permitted to exist. I hope your government, and all the governments on Earth, cuts off aid to UNRWA next, and I hope people everywhere will rise up and protest for this outcome.

[Velasco]

US Senate has passed a bill that probably will contribute to the death of thousands in Gaza, for the URNWA is the only organization with the neccessary infrastructure to conduct aid operations in Gaza. Based on Israel's allegations (involving 13 out of 13,000 employees), the humanitarian organization is deprived of funds and 2 million Gazans are threatened with famine

Organizations not endorsed by the IDF which have the infrastructure to conduct operations in Gaza should not be permitted to exist. I hope your government, and all the governments on Earth, cuts off aid to UNRWA next, and I hope people everywhere will rise up and protest for this outcome.

I would even say that individuals not endorsing the IDF should not be allowed to exist, including me

(I could have written just "lol", but I'm not in the mood for making fun of this)

[Vosem]

US Senate has passed a bill that probably will contribute to the death of thousands in Gaza, for the URNWA is the only organization with the neccessary infrastructure to conduct aid operations in Gaza. Based on Israel's allegations (involving 13 out of 13,000 employees), the humanitarian organization is deprived of funds and 2 million Gazans are threatened with famine

Organizations not endorsed by the IDF which have the infrastructure to conduct operations in Gaza should not be permitted to exist. I hope your government, and all the governments on Earth, cuts off aid to UNRWA next, and I hope people everywhere will rise up and protest for this outcome.

I would even say that individuals not endorsing the IDF should not be allowed to exist, including me

(I could have written just "lol", but I'm not in the mood to make loke fun of this)

Well, that's true. They should find it within their souls to set aside hatred and violence, and support the Israeli campaign. I hope to live in a world without individuals who wouldn't endorse this campaign.

(I think a few of my posts at pppolitics have been kind of sardonic, but otherwise nothing I've written in this thread has been meant to poke fun at anyone. It is an entirely serious situation; tens of thousands of people have died, and the consequence of the wrong side winning is millions more around the world as the militarization of hospitals and schools becomes de rigueur.)

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

There is something kind of awe-inspiring about how absolutely out-there Vosem's ideas on this conflict are. He thinks that anyone sending Palestine food aid, even just "broccoli or carrots", should be prosecuted. He dreams of the day when Vanuatu launches missiles into Palestine and a flotilla of all the ships in the world bombs Gaza flat. Only after that will all of the peoples of the world— Palestinians included— link arms amidst the rubble and bodies and sing Kumbaya.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

There is something kind of awe-inspiring about how absolutely out-there Vosem's ideas on this conflict are. He thinks that anyone sending Palestine food aid, even just "broccoli or carrots", should be prosecuted. He dreams of the day when Vanuatu launches missiles into Palestine and a flotilla of all the ships in the world bombs Gaza flat. Only after that, will all of the peoples of the world— Palestinians included— link arms amidst the rubble and bodies and sing Kumbaya.

I mean, there are millions of people around the world who genuinely think they can demand a nuclear power out of existence and that attacking kosher eateries and disrupting public transit will make this possible, so it only stands to reason the other side has some out-there maximalists as well.

[Vosem]

There is something kind of awe-inspiring about how absolutely out-there Vosem's ideas on this conflict are. He thinks that anyone sending Palestine food aid, even just "broccoli or carrots", should be prosecuted.

There are lots of countries we sanction, and you can indeed be prosecuted for doing business with them. Here's an article discussing the impact of sanctions on charities. This is how we treat other regimes at Gaza's levels of depravity.

He dreams of the day when Vanuatu launches missiles into Palestine and a flotilla of all the ships in the world bombs Gaza flat.

Sure, many countries don't have air forces, but that doesn't mean that they can't pitch in funds or technicians or something. Many Latin American nations joined the Allies in World War II purely symbolically. Similarly, multiple Arab countries far away from Israel were theoretically at war with it during the 1960s and 1970s conflicts (famously Mauritania).

The destruction of Gaza should be the judgment of all of humanity; every tiny remote island should be suffused with the spirit that animates Israel to bomb the Strip. But that doesn't mean Vanuatu needs to create a giant military-industrial complex or whatever; symbolic actions would suffice.

Only after that will all of the peoples of the world— Palestinians included— link arms amidst the rubble and bodies and sing Kumbaya.

...yes, I think there can only be peace once people put aside hatred, and the governments that foment it are extinguished. Do you disagree with this? It's basically a truism.

(My ideas are really not particularly out there; they are the same as the ideas you -- or anyone else -- apply to a conflict where one side is clearly morally in the right. I think most posters here believe that the conflict is morally difficult with shades of gray. I disagree; I think there is no merit to Palestinian liberationism, and Palestine will be free and independent only when it is free of that scourge.)

[Oregon Eagle Politics]

Bernie Sanders is one of the few US politicians with a sense of morality

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1757257562708218358?t=LwSMPPap9EIlguXyxNuo...

5x Corbyn endorser does what Corbynists do.

Bernie is Jewish though.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Bernie Sanders is one of the few US politicians with a sense of morality

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1757257562708218358?t=LwSMPPap9EIlguXyxNuo...

5x Corbyn endorser does what Corbynists do.

Bernie is Jewish though.

That makes being a Corbyn supporter and voting for his agenda even sadder, if less unambiguously evil.

[Virginiá]

Let's cut it with the nazi sympathizer accusations here. Theorizing about other people here is not at all constructive. It's a thread to follow the conflict, not deliberate how evil other posters are.

[pppolitics]

There is something kind of awe-inspiring about how absolutely out-there Vosem's ideas on this conflict are. He thinks that anyone sending Palestine food aid, even just "broccoli or carrots", should be prosecuted. He dreams of the day when Vanuatu launches missiles into Palestine and a flotilla of all the ships in the world bombs Gaza flat. Only after that will all of the peoples of the world— Palestinians included— link arms amidst the rubble and bodies and sing Kumbaya.

Vosem said that it is acceptable to starve civilians whose only crime is living in a war zone.

Just think about that for a second.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Bernie Sanders is one of the few US politicians with a sense of morality

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1757257562708218358?t=LwSMPPap9EIlguXyxNuo...

5x Corbyn endorser does what Corbynists do.

Bernie is Jewish though.

Ray doesn't consider Jewish people to be real Jews if they don't support Israel

He also implied that the 11 Jewish members of Congress who voted against censuring Tlaib were not really Jewish too.

The funny thing is the 2 Jewish Presidential candidates this year, Jill Stein and Marianne Williamson, have been quite critical of Israel.

[GoTfan]

There is something kind of awe-inspiring about how absolutely out-there Vosem's ideas on this conflict are. He thinks that anyone sending Palestine food aid, even just "broccoli or carrots", should be prosecuted. He dreams of the day when Vanuatu launches missiles into Palestine and a flotilla of all the ships in the world bombs Gaza flat. Only after that, will all of the peoples of the world— Palestinians included— link arms amidst the rubble and bodies and sing Kumbaya.

I mean, there are millions of people around the world who genuinely think they can demand a nuclear power out of existence and that attacking kosher eateries and disrupting public transit will make this possible, so it only stands to reason the other side has some out-there maximalists as well.

Out-there maximalists exist on both sides of this debate. I just hope that the rational voices in Israel prevail before Netanyahu enacts his full plan.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Time To Face Facts

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0cfXFmvu4o/

[patzer]

I think there is no merit to Palestinian liberationism, and Palestine will be free and independent only when it is free of that scourge.

Palestine is already free and independent, and is now known as Israel. The former British mandate of Palestine became independent in 1948 and the people there decided to change the new country's name to Israel, remaining a multicultural society as the region always had been. Thanks to Egyptian and Jordanian occupation, and more recently Hamas and PLO occupation, Israel has not yet been able to have full sovereignty over the whole region though.

The modern phenomenon of "Palestinian nationalism" by those groups like Hamas and Fatah who reject the multicultural independent Israel and decided to instead reappropriate Israel's former name to espouse far-right Arab Muslim supremacist ideology, on the other hand, very much needs to be stamped out. Ask any "Palestinian nationalist" if they think Jews living in primarily Jewish towns should be able to continue to live freely in their homes in the proposed new state and pray freely at their holy sites like the Temple Mount, and the answer is almost always no.

[The Economy is Getting Worse]

Netanyahu is not sending a delegation to the Cairo talks today.

[Pres Mike]

I think there is no merit to Palestinian liberationism, and Palestine will be free and independent only when it is free of that scourge.

Palestine is already free and independent, and is now known as Israel. The former British mandate of Palestine became independent in 1948 and the people there decided to change the new country's name to Israel, remaining a multicultural society as the region always had been. Thanks to Egyptian and Jordanian occupation, and more recently Hamas and PLO occupation, Israel has not yet been able to have full sovereignty over the whole region though.

The modern phenomenon of "Palestinian nationalism" by those groups like Hamas and Fatah who reject the multicultural independent Israel and decided to instead reappropriate Israel's former name to espouse far-right Arab Muslim supremacist ideology, on the other hand, very much needs to be stamped out. Ask any "Palestinian nationalist" if they think Jews living in primarily Jewish towns should be able to continue to live freely in their homes in the proposed new state and pray freely at their holy sites like the Temple Mount, and the answer is almost always no.

I'm a Palestinian nationalist and I'm fine with Jews living in Israel, pre-1967 borders

You do understand that Israel did have full sovereignty right? Than in 1993, they gave Area A and B to the PLO? It was brave men like Rabin and Peres who started the peace process

Your ignoring the many war crimes in 1947 and 1948 when Arab towns were razed and forced to flee. Your also ignoring that Jordan and Egypt occupied Palestinian land, land Israel did not claim pre 1967 because they agreed to an Arab state in 1948

And Israel isn't a direct successor state to the British Mandate of Palestine. It was a successionist state made by Jewish settlers. No one claims the US is a direct continuation of the Iroquois confederacy made in 1722, its a direct successor state to the various English colonies.