Israel-Gaza war

[GoTfan]

This guy needs to be sacked.


(CNN 28 Jan 2024)

Either (i) he knew the UNRWA staff were active in the October 7 attacks, or (ii) he had no idea about the UNRWA staff involved in the beheading and raping of Israeli civilians.

Either situation is unacceptable as a leader, and certainly, a huge stain on the reputation of the UN agencies in the region.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-chief-asks-donors-to-reconsider-as-germany-joins-cascade-freezing-funds/

The UN aid should be contingent on the release of all Israeli hostages. Why are we sending money to terrorist organisations with the funds used to murder and kidnap civilians?

Probably because not everyone in Gaza had a role in the attacks or is a Hamas supporter? I dunno man, I think you're letting the racism show a bit.

Indeed. The URNWA is irreplaceable.

God, I hope so. My fear is that after its defunding some organization will be able to replace it in funneling Western money to Hamas. Thankfully the evolution of Western public opinion is such that practices like "Palestinian aid" have become less and less tenable.

Why do you hate Palestinians so deeply?

[Vosem]

This guy needs to be sacked.


(CNN 28 Jan 2024)

Either (i) he knew the UNRWA staff were active in the October 7 attacks, or (ii) he had no idea about the UNRWA staff involved in the beheading and raping of Israeli civilians.

Either situation is unacceptable as a leader, and certainly, a huge stain on the reputation of the UN agencies in the region.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-chief-asks-donors-to-reconsider-as-germany-joins-cascade-freezing-funds/

The UN aid should be contingent on the release of all Israeli hostages. Why are we sending money to terrorist organisations with the funds used to murder and kidnap civilians?

Probably because not everyone in Gaza had a role in the attacks or is a Hamas supporter? I dunno man, I think you're letting the racism show a bit.

Indeed. The URNWA is irreplaceable.

God, I hope so. My fear is that after its defunding some organization will be able to replace it in funneling Western money to Hamas. Thankfully the evolution of Western public opinion is such that practices like "Palestinian aid" have become less and less tenable.

Why do you hate Palestinians so deeply?

I don't. I advocate for treating them the same way as everyone else.

[GoTfan]

This guy needs to be sacked.


(CNN 28 Jan 2024)

Either (i) he knew the UNRWA staff were active in the October 7 attacks, or (ii) he had no idea about the UNRWA staff involved in the beheading and raping of Israeli civilians.

Either situation is unacceptable as a leader, and certainly, a huge stain on the reputation of the UN agencies in the region.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-chief-asks-donors-to-reconsider-as-germany-joins-cascade-freezing-funds/

The UN aid should be contingent on the release of all Israeli hostages. Why are we sending money to terrorist organisations with the funds used to murder and kidnap civilians?

Probably because not everyone in Gaza had a role in the attacks or is a Hamas supporter? I dunno man, I think you're letting the racism show a bit.

Indeed. The URNWA is irreplaceable.

God, I hope so. My fear is that after its defunding some organization will be able to replace it in funneling Western money to Hamas. Thankfully the evolution of Western public opinion is such that practices like "Palestinian aid" have become less and less tenable.

Why do you hate Palestinians so deeply?

I don't. I advocate for treating them the same way as everyone else.

Apart from wanting them wiped out and believing they have no right to food, water or shelter that is.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

Why do you hate Palestinians so deeply?

I don't. I advocate for treating them the same way as everyone else.

So, like sh!t?

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

The Islamist left is complaining about this. When Israel was bombing Gaza, they cried that Israel should only be using targeted assassinations so there wouldn’t be civilian casualties. But now targeted assassinations are a war crime too.

-Snip-

And as a member of the oh, so, scary Islamist left that apparently has all of you pro-Israel people quaking in your boots, the key part that you're conveniently ignoring is the fact it took place in a hospital, and they were disguised as civilians.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The Islamist left is complaining about this. When Israel was bombing Gaza, they cried that Israel should only be using targeted assassinations so there wouldn’t be civilian casualties. But now targeted assassinations are a war crime too.

-Snip-

And as a member of the oh, so, scary Islamist left that apparently has all of you pro-Israel people quaking in your boots, the key part that you're conveniently ignoring is the fact it took place in a hospital, and they were disguised as civilians.

Yes, that is what a covert Mossad operation to kill genocidal war criminals looks like.

[GoTfan]

The Islamist left is complaining about this. When Israel was bombing Gaza, they cried that Israel should only be using targeted assassinations so there wouldn’t be civilian casualties. But now targeted assassinations are a war crime too.

-Snip-

And as a member of the oh, so, scary Islamist left that apparently has all of you pro-Israel people quaking in your boots, the key part that you're conveniently ignoring is the fact it took place in a hospital, and they were disguised as civilians.

Yes, that is what a covert Mossad operation to kill genocidal war criminals looks like.

I understand the rationale. I don't agree with the method.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

The Islamist left is complaining about this. When Israel was bombing Gaza, they cried that Israel should only be using targeted assassinations so there wouldn’t be civilian casualties. But now targeted assassinations are a war crime too.

-Snip-

And as a member of the oh, so, scary Islamist left that apparently has all of you pro-Israel people quaking in your boots, the key part that you're conveniently ignoring is the fact it took place in a hospital, and they were disguised as civilians.

Yes, that is what a covert Mossad operation to kill genocidal war criminals looks like.

If Mossad really wanted to go after "genocidal" war criminals, they would've already taken out Bibi and his clique ruling the country.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

Undercover Israeli troops dressed as medical staff kill three militants in West Bank hospital raid, officials say

Israeli special forces, dressed as civilians and medical staff, infiltrated the Ibn Sina hospital in the occupied West Bank city of Jenin on Tuesday and killed three Palestinian men, according to Israeli and Palestinian officials.

Hamas said the men were Jenin Brigades fighters, an umbrella group of armed Palestinian factions in the West Bank city. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said they were terrorists linked to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and an Israeli government minister praised the operation.

The disguised special forces “infiltrated the hospital individually, headed to the third floor, and assassinated the young men,” Palestinian state news agency WAFA reported, citing sources from inside the hospital.

The IDF said it targeted Hamas fighter Mohammed Jalamneh who “had recently been involved in promoting significant terrorist activity and was hiding in the Ibn Sina Hospital in Jenin.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/30/middleeast/israel-undercover-raid-jenin-west-bank-hamas-intl/index.html

The Islamist left is complaining about this. When Israel was bombing Gaza, they cried that Israel should only be using targeted assassinations so there wouldn’t be civilian casualties. But now targeted assassinations are a war crime too.

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1752326543001424125?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yY...

Targeted assassinations? Not (necessarily) a war crime.

But attacking hospitals is a war crime, killing wounded combatants in the hospital is a war crime (supposedly one of the "terrorists" was literally in a coma) and armed soldiers disguising themselves as doctors and patients is perfidy which is - you guessed it - a war crime.

Israel is literally on war crime spree. Speaking of, the mother of one of the hostages killed during the Gaza campaign has accused the IDF of yet another war crime: using chemical weapons to kill the hostages

https://twitter.com/incontextmedia/status/1748149011251331146

Strange how the American media refuses to even touch stories like this when even the Israeli media has started to give them air.

[Vosem]

This guy needs to be sacked.


(CNN 28 Jan 2024)

Either (i) he knew the UNRWA staff were active in the October 7 attacks, or (ii) he had no idea about the UNRWA staff involved in the beheading and raping of Israeli civilians.

Either situation is unacceptable as a leader, and certainly, a huge stain on the reputation of the UN agencies in the region.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-chief-asks-donors-to-reconsider-as-germany-joins-cascade-freezing-funds/

The UN aid should be contingent on the release of all Israeli hostages. Why are we sending money to terrorist organisations with the funds used to murder and kidnap civilians?

Probably because not everyone in Gaza had a role in the attacks or is a Hamas supporter? I dunno man, I think you're letting the racism show a bit.

Indeed. The URNWA is irreplaceable.

God, I hope so. My fear is that after its defunding some organization will be able to replace it in funneling Western money to Hamas. Thankfully the evolution of Western public opinion is such that practices like "Palestinian aid" have become less and less tenable.

Why do you hate Palestinians so deeply?

I don't. I advocate for treating them the same way as everyone else.

Apart from wanting them wiped out and believing they have no right to food, water or shelter that is.

I mean, this would move the thread hugely off-topic, but I think belief in positive rights in general is dangerous and does more harm than good. I was raised in a household with individuals who fought in the Second World War, who both suffered bombardment and supported a fighting force which distributed it; they were raised with individuals who fought in the Russian Civil War. Please do not accuse me of antagonism towards the victims of war, or selective morality: there is no action I have advocated towards the people of Gaza which was not applied towards my family members by powers they considered friendly. There are no measures I have advocated towards the people of Gaza I would not accept seeing universalized in the service of defeating Hamas and all ideologies which negate the legitimacy of existing states, like Palestinian liberationism or Nazism (or, in an earlier generation, the White movement). Nowhere in this is implied any hatred, or even mistrust, for Palestinians or Germans or Cossacks.

(I've also repeatedly noted in conversations about the UN that I think other such "refugee" agencies -- particularly MONUSCO -- have tendencies towards capture by revanchist movements among refugees, and we should probably stop establishing agencies like this, and pull all funding from existing ones. UNRWA is not actually such an anomaly in being a UN agency run by Hamas sympathizers; nor is Hamas actually such an anomaly in being a terrorist organization with which UN agencies sympathize.)

Undercover Israeli troops dressed as medical staff kill three militants in West Bank hospital raid, officials say

Israeli special forces, dressed as civilians and medical staff, infiltrated the Ibn Sina hospital in the occupied West Bank city of Jenin on Tuesday and killed three Palestinian men, according to Israeli and Palestinian officials.

Hamas said the men were Jenin Brigades fighters, an umbrella group of armed Palestinian factions in the West Bank city. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said they were terrorists linked to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and an Israeli government minister praised the operation.

The disguised special forces “infiltrated the hospital individually, headed to the third floor, and assassinated the young men,” Palestinian state news agency WAFA reported, citing sources from inside the hospital.

The IDF said it targeted Hamas fighter Mohammed Jalamneh who “had recently been involved in promoting significant terrorist activity and was hiding in the Ibn Sina Hospital in Jenin.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/30/middleeast/israel-undercover-raid-jenin-west-bank-hamas-intl/index.html

The Islamist left is complaining about this. When Israel was bombing Gaza, they cried that Israel should only be using targeted assassinations so there wouldn’t be civilian casualties. But now targeted assassinations are a war crime too.

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1752326543001424125?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yY...

Targeted assassinations? Not (necessarily) a war crime.

But attacking hospitals is a war crime,

No, it is not when those hospitals are used for military purposes; I have already provided the citation and can go hunt it down again if you like. If this war were being carried out in a just and reasonable way, then on the first day all 192 countries on Earth would've collaborated to level every hospital in Gaza (which I believe I was calling for in the first week; I can go find the quote if you like).

[GoTfan]

To be fair Vosem, you also want Palestinians to be denied food and water.
 

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

No, it is not when those hospitals are used for military purposes; I have already provided the citation and can go hunt it down again if you like. If this war were being carried out in a just and reasonable way, then on the first day all 192 countries on Earth would've collaborated to level every hospital in Gaza (which I believe I was calling for in the first week; I can go find the quote if you like).

Weird deflection because the hospital wasn't being used for military purposes, it was being used as a hospital. Again, one of the "terrorists" was there because he was in a literal coma.

You have the moral code of Atilla the Hun and I don't particularly care whether or not Atilla the Hun thinks the IDF is committing war crimes. The relevant standard is the one laid out by the Geneva Convention and by that standard the IDF has crossed the line a thousand times over. Hell, even by the standards of Just War laid out by Aquinas in the Middle Ages the IDF's conduct would be found severely wanting.

[Vosem]

No, it is not when those hospitals are used for military purposes; I have already provided the citation and can go hunt it down again if you like. If this war were being carried out in a just and reasonable way, then on the first day all 192 countries on Earth would've collaborated to level every hospital in Gaza (which I believe I was calling for in the first week; I can go find the quote if you like).

Weird deflection because the hospital wasn't being used for military purposes, it was being used as a hospital. Again, one of the "terrorists" was there because he was in a literal coma.

You have the moral code of Atilla the Hun and I don't particularly care whether or not Atilla the Hun thinks the IDF is committing war crimes. The relevant standard is the one laid out by the Geneva Convention and by that standard the IDF has crossed the line a thousand times over.

By the standard of the Geneva Conventions Israel has been absurdly careful. As I have mentioned before the Geneva Conventions not merely permit but basically flat-out endorse the destruction of hospitals used for military purposes by an enemy; I have never once advocated for Israel to take an action forbidden by them, because so long as you have intelligence that they are used for military purposes -- this was published by the absurdly pro-Palestinian press in 2014 and has been known for much longer -- then of course you are permitted to destroy them. The scandal here, as I've said before, is that other countries did not join Israel in destroying Gaza, when it is so clearly in the entire world's interests for that to happen.

I remain the only poster in this thread citing actual passages of the actual Geneva Conventions, and the reason for that is that merely skimming them reveals that they are not intended to punish far more intense offensives than the one Israel has actually conducted.

[wangaratta]

Anyone who accuses me of "bad faith" but is willing to swallow whatever Fatah/Hamas/IJ and here in Australia their supporters like Farqui, Shoebridge, Steele-John etc. say...

It seems you think the Palestinian people have real power. I remind you that in ten countries in the Islamic world, they sentence you to *death* for deciding you think this Islam thing you were brought up in is a bit rubbish. In the rest they just get your family to do it.

See also: Mayottte and the African Union and the Comoros (both largely Muslim dominated) not giving a sh**t that the people of Mayotte *want* to remain part of France.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

heres the solution, make the UK sort this out. they got us into this mess, they can fix the mess that they started

Why would the UK care?
Why would anyone care?

Meanwhile... thousands of children keep dying.

And no-one does anything about it, except pointing fingers to one other.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

No, it is not when those hospitals are used for military purposes; I have already provided the citation and can go hunt it down again if you like. If this war were being carried out in a just and reasonable way, then on the first day all 192 countries on Earth would've collaborated to level every hospital in Gaza (which I believe I was calling for in the first week; I can go find the quote if you like).

Weird deflection because the hospital wasn't being used for military purposes, it was being used as a hospital. Again, one of the "terrorists" was there because he was in a literal coma.

You have the moral code of Atilla the Hun and I don't particularly care whether or not Atilla the Hun thinks the IDF is committing war crimes. The relevant standard is the one laid out by the Geneva Convention and by that standard the IDF has crossed the line a thousand times over.

By the standard of the Geneva Conventions Israel has been absurdly careful. As I have mentioned before the Geneva Conventions not merely permit but basically flat-out endorse the destruction of hospitals used for military purposes by an enemy; I have never once advocated for Israel to take an action forbidden by them, because so long as you have intelligence that they are used for military purposes -- this was published by the absurdly pro-Palestinian press in 2014 and has been known for much longer -- then of course you are permitted to destroy them. The scandal here, as I've said before, is that other countries did not join Israel in destroying Gaza, when it is so clearly in the entire world's interests for that to happen.

I remain the only poster in this thread citing actual passages of the actual Geneva Conventions, and the reason for that is that merely skimming them reveals that they are not intended to punish far more intense offensives than the one Israel has actually conducted.

I have had to correct people IRL about the legality or lack thereof of what Israel's doing.
Just two days ago: "Legal doesn't mean moral". The person on the other end just shut down and terminated the conversation.
Unfortunately minds will be hard to change on this.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

How monstrous some people are.

[GoTfan]

It's also over a decade old.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Belgium continues funding UNWRA. Good that we don't buy this propaganda. There was a vote today and continuing to fund passed.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Belgium continues funding UNWRA. Good that we don't buy this propaganda. There was a vote today and continuing to fund passed.

Good.

[wangaratta]

You do know that no actual Palestinian people who are living in either the WB or Gaza can safely contradict the prevalent and baffling alliance *especially online*) between the hard-to-far left e.g. Australian Greens senators David Shoebridge andJordan Steele-John and the Islamists and Arab nationalists?

By the way, Senator Shoebridge prefers to get his news about the current conflict from Al-Jazeera, the propaganda arm of the government of Qatar, principal state sponsor (along with Iran) of Hamas.

I think this takes the definition of "useful idiot" to a whole new level...

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I think Al Jazeera is more credible than Israel Hayom and Wall Street Journal.

[Devils30]

I think Al Jazeera is more credible than Israel Hayom and Wall Street Journal.

And if you disregard Al Jazeera purely because of it's name, it's because you're racist.

Al Jazeera is very much the Arab world's FOX News.

[wangaratta]

I think Al Jazeera is more credible than Israel Hayom and Wall Street Journal.

And if you disregard Al Jazeera purely because of it's name, it's because you're racist.

Given our friends can't tell the difference between "racist" and "racially inept" much of the time, yeah...
I explained why AJ has no credibility as it is controlled by the Quatari government who is a state sponsor of Hamas. I also mentioned The AU and Comoros attitude towards Mayotte and ignoring reality.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I think Al Jazeera is more credible than Israel Hayom and Wall Street Journal.

And if you disregard Al Jazeera purely because of it's name, it's because you're racist.

Given our friends can't tell the difference between "racist" and "racially inept" much of the time, yeah...
I explained why AJ has no credibility as it is controlled by the Quatari government who is a state sponsor of Hamas. I also mentioned The AU and Comoros attitude towards Mayotte and ignoring reality.

Every Arab supports terrorism, blah blah blah nonsense.

Besides the Comoros and AJ are right.

I even introduced a bill coincidentally in Atlas fantasy government and it passed: you can see it here

PASSES 7-6-3-2

Fixing Mayotte Resolution

It is hereby the official position of the Republic of Atlasia that Mayotte is a part of the Union of the Comoros and not a part of the Republic of France.

The isle of Mayotte is a remnant of the French colonial past. It is an integral part of the Comoros, and the Republic of Atlasia strongly encourages the French to return Mayotte to the Comoros and for France to additionally apologize to the people of the Comoros. Failure to comply will result in the introduction of economical sanctions versus the Republic of France, and the end of our alliance.

Not that it matters, but as you can see not so one-sided as you claim it is.

Comoros are absolutely 100% right.

I'm consistently anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist.