Israel-Gaza war

[All Along The Watchtower]

heres the solution, make the UK sort this out. they got us into this mess, they can fix the mess that they started

I’m afraid that, and with all due respect to our British forum members, the UK is rather less powerful on the global stage than was the case a century ago.

[Blue3]

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1751316412696526858

[Horus]

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1751316412696526858

This guy is just so cartoonishly evil. One of the nastiest post-WWII political figures.

[Velasco]

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1751316412696526858

This guy is just so cartoonishly evil. One of the nastiest post-WWII political figures.

Netanyahu's cartoonish evil is a product of impunity and the environment. He exists because our governments give carte blanche to people like him, as well as he's the product of a certain society and its disfunctional ecosystem

https://twitter.com/MairavZ/status/1751533661189541959?t=LW1BkEv-5u7WRl9XjE7a7Q&...

[patzer]

heres the solution, make the UK sort this out. they got us into this mess, they can fix the mess that they started

That's a bit of a stretch. Like yes, if the British government in the 1930s hadn't pandered to Arab xenophobia and restricted Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany from seeking refuge in the Levant, then far more Jews would have survived and ended up in Israel, and it is unlikely that a Palestinian state would have ever been considered viable. But any other colonial administrator like the Ottomans would have probably made the same decision that the UK did there.

[Upper Canada Tory]

This guy needs to be sacked.


(CNN 28 Jan 2024)

Either (i) he knew the UNRWA staff were active in the October 7 attacks, or (ii) he had no idea about the UNRWA staff involved in the beheading and raping of Israeli civilians.

Either situation is unacceptable as a leader, and certainly, a huge stain on the reputation of the UN agencies in the region.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-chief-asks-donors-to-reconsider-as-germany-joins-cascade-freezing-funds/

The UN aid should be contingent on the release of all Israeli hostages. Why are we sending money to terrorist organisations with the funds used to murder and kidnap civilians?

Probably because not everyone in Gaza had a role in the attacks or is a Hamas supporter? I dunno man, I think you're letting the racism show a bit.

I don't think this is Meclazine's argument. UNRWA has largely been aware for some time that there are varying degrees of Hamas infiltration in the agency (including aid funded by Western governments being stolen by Hamas militants), but it has largely covered it up, hiding behind the excuse that Israel cannot definitively prove it happened and Hamas' strong control of the Gaza Strip. The only reason UNRWA took action this time around is because Israel provided compelling evidence to the UN, namely, the names of the 12 alleged participants in the October 7th attack that Israel obtained through interrogation of Hamas militants who entered Israel but were captured.

https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/10/16/un-agency-accuses-hamas-of-stealing-humanitarian-supplies-then-deletes-statement/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-wJ6ItvK-w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Uu3_xX0XS5U

[BigSkyBob]

heres the solution, make the UK sort this out. they got us into this mess, they can fix the mess that they started

That's a bit of a stretch. Like yes, if the British government in the 1930s hadn't pandered to Arab xenophobia and restricted Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany from seeking refuge in the Levant, then far more Jews would have survived and ended up in Israel, and it is unlikely that a Palestinian state would have ever been considered viable. But any other colonial administrator like the Ottomans would have probably made the same decision that the UK did there.

The residents of the Palestine mandate were as entitled to political self-determination as anyone else in the world regardless of anyone's opinion of the "viability" of such a state.

[GoTfan]

heres the solution, make the UK sort this out. they got us into this mess, they can fix the mess that they started

That's a bit of a stretch. Like yes, if the British government in the 1930s hadn't pandered to Arab xenophobia and restricted Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany from seeking refuge in the Levant, then far more Jews would have survived and ended up in Israel, and it is unlikely that a Palestinian state would have ever been considered viable. But any other colonial administrator like the Ottomans would have probably made the same decision that the UK did there.

The residents of the Palestine mandate were as entitled to political self-determination as anyone else in the world regardless of anyone's opinion of the "viability" of such a state.

Yeah but have you considered that some people here think Palestinians don't deserve basic rights? In order to understand some people on here-like Vosem-we have to assume that they thibk Palestinians are less than human. That is inescapable.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Nancy Pelosi suggests some Palestinian protestors should be investigated for having links to Russia.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/28/politics/pelosi-criticism-palestinian-gaza-protests-russia/index.html

"Some, I think, are connected to Russia. And I say that having looked at this for a long time now, as you know.”

I wonder what she knows that we don't. The length of time is an interesting comment.

The old Palestinians are having a bad month after the UNRWA fiasco.

[patzer]

The residents of the Palestine mandate were as entitled to political self-determination as anyone else in the world regardless of anyone's opinion of the "viability" of such a state.

Not at all.

I'd say the Palestinian Arab population had about as much right to a state as the Sudetenland Germans did.

Bohemia/Moravia: colonization many csnturies ago resulted in a substantial German population existing there; they were unhappy when the native population reasserted independence in the 20th century; they partitioned the state on arbitrary lines to ensure that they had at least part of it but this only served to weaken the Czechoslovak state and it was obviously only a first step towards the German desires of full annexation

The analogies with the desire of the Arab states to conquer Israel is obvious. When a desire for national autonomy is directly linked to imperialism you have to ask questions about to what extent said desire should be supported.

[emailking]

Undercover Israeli troops dressed as medical staff kill three militants in West Bank hospital raid, officials say

Israeli special forces, dressed as civilians and medical staff, infiltrated the Ibn Sina hospital in the occupied West Bank city of Jenin on Tuesday and killed three Palestinian men, according to Israeli and Palestinian officials.

Hamas said the men were Jenin Brigades fighters, an umbrella group of armed Palestinian factions in the West Bank city. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said they were terrorists linked to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and an Israeli government minister praised the operation.

The disguised special forces “infiltrated the hospital individually, headed to the third floor, and assassinated the young men,” Palestinian state news agency WAFA reported, citing sources from inside the hospital.

The IDF said it targeted Hamas fighter Mohammed Jalamneh who “had recently been involved in promoting significant terrorist activity and was hiding in the Ibn Sina Hospital in Jenin.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/30/middleeast/israel-undercover-raid-jenin-west-bank-hamas-intl/index.html

[Zinneke]

The residents of the Palestine mandate were as entitled to political self-determination as anyone else in the world regardless of anyone's opinion of the "viability" of such a state.

Not at all.

I'd say the Palestinian Arab population had about as much right to a state as the Sudetenland Germans did.

Me say controversial things on internet sprinkled with historical analogies to sound smart
Me get recommendations and quoted in posts so that dopamine hit is activated
Dopamine hit nice. Me haven't opened book outside of Jordan Peterson first chapter
Me happy

[wangaratta]

the clerico-fascists who have the power and the guns, whether in 1948 or in 2024, are not the legitimate representatives of the Palestinian people. "Palestinian Christians fought agoingside the uslims in 1948" is comparable to "blacks were in the army of the Confederacy" as it ignores how the Arab Muslims leaders treated - and still treat - non-Muslims e.g. the Copts.

[Agafin]

TOP 20 GOVERNMENT DONORS TO UNRWA IN 2022*
Donor   Contribution US$ *
USA   343,937,718
Germany   202,054,285
EU   114,199,150
Sweden   60,969,987
Norway   34,180,677
Japan   30,152,202
France   28,909,838
Saudi Arabia   27,000,000
Switzerland   25,534,028
Turkey   25,199,080
Canada   23,713,560
Netherlands   21,189,038
UK   21,158,281
Italy   18,033,970
Denmark   15,885,970
Australia   13,797,995
Spain (including Regional Governments) **   13,592,803
Belgium (including Government of Flanders)   12,558,653
Kuwait (including Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development)   12,000,000
Qatar   10,500,000



Looking at this table, it seems really bizarre how western countriess (and Japan) effectively provide over 90% of the funding to UNRWA. How come arab nations are so loud in criticizing the west but can't even do the barest minimum to help the palestinians. I mean, ok people said they won't accept palestinian refugees because they don't want  to encourage ethnic cleansing, fair enough. But what about this? You really mean to tell me that the rich petro states of Qatar and Saudi Arabia can spend billions of dollars on stupid ostentatious projects but can only contribute $10-$25 million here?And what about China? Where is that Global South solidarity? Holy hell is this table crazy. Palestinians accusing USA and Germany of supporting genocide when they (palestinians) are effectively being fed and taken care of by those two is quite something.

[wangaratta]

Um, yes most of what the Palestinian *leadership* says is propaganda and fake news.
All that aid money doesn't go to the Palestinian *people*.

[Meclazine for Israel]

The Day Humanity Died

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzJy3zUxmTa/

[Pericles]

Isn't the West the default provider of most humanitarian aid? So whatever is going on here is probably more about humanitarian aid overall and not special compassion for Palestine. It being that skewed is weird though.

[wangaratta]

Isn't the West the default provider of most humanitarian aid? So whatever is going on here is probably more about humanitarian aid overall and not special compassion for Palestine. It being that skewed is weird though.

The leadership in the Palestinian groups tend to lie to the Friends of Palestine. That's been known in Whitehall and in Foggy Bottom for a long time...

[Lief 🗽]

Undercover Israeli troops dressed as medical staff kill three militants in West Bank hospital raid, officials say

Israeli special forces, dressed as civilians and medical staff, infiltrated the Ibn Sina hospital in the occupied West Bank city of Jenin on Tuesday and killed three Palestinian men, according to Israeli and Palestinian officials.

Hamas said the men were Jenin Brigades fighters, an umbrella group of armed Palestinian factions in the West Bank city. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said they were terrorists linked to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and an Israeli government minister praised the operation.

The disguised special forces “infiltrated the hospital individually, headed to the third floor, and assassinated the young men,” Palestinian state news agency WAFA reported, citing sources from inside the hospital.

The IDF said it targeted Hamas fighter Mohammed Jalamneh who “had recently been involved in promoting significant terrorist activity and was hiding in the Ibn Sina Hospital in Jenin.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/30/middleeast/israel-undercover-raid-jenin-west-bank-hamas-intl/index.html

The Islamist left is complaining about this. When Israel was bombing Gaza, they cried that Israel should only be using targeted assassinations so there wouldn’t be civilian casualties. But now targeted assassinations are a war crime too.

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1752326543001424125?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yY...

[BigSkyBob]

The residents of the Palestine mandate were as entitled to political self-determination as anyone else in the world regardless of anyone's opinion of the "viability" of such a state.

Not at all.

I'd say the Palestinian Arab population had about as much right to a state as the Sudetenland Germans did.

Bohemia/Moravia: colonization many csnturies ago resulted in a substantial German population existing there; they were unhappy when the native population reasserted independence in the 20th century; they partitioned the state on arbitrary lines to ensure that they had at least part of it but this only served to weaken the Czechoslovak state and it was obviously only a first step towards the German desires of full annexation

The analogies with the desire of the Arab states to conquer Israel is obvious. When a desire for national autonomy is directly linked to imperialism you have to ask questions about to what extent said desire should be supported.

Yours is a very bad slippery slope argument.

[BigSkyBob]

the clerico-fascists who have the power and the guns, whether in 1948 or in 2024, are not the legitimate representatives of the Palestinian people. "Palestinian Christians fought agoingside the uslims in 1948" is comparable to "blacks were in the army of the Confederacy" as it ignores how the Arab Muslims leaders treated - and still treat - non-Muslims e.g. the Copts.

Any attempt to suggest they are really promoting Christian interest is laughable. In Israel, the government has cracked down on Christians for singing least anyone hear their hymns. You are arguing in bad faith, and everyone here, including me, knows this.

[Zinneke]

Patzer is one of those people who will scream anti-Semitism at people that propose a utopic 1 state solution with equal rights for Jews and Arabs and Druze on the basis, rightly or wrongly, that denying a people a nation-state is a form of racism. And then subsequently deny Palestinian self-determination because Arabs are one big nation in his warped analysis. Some nations are equal than others. We get the conservative right's logic on such matters.

[Angel of Death]

Without looking it up, does anyone want to guess how many Israeli ministers attended the recent conference in support of resettling Gaza?

[GoTfan]

Nancy Pelosi suggests some Palestinian protestors should be investigated for having links to Russia.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/28/politics/pelosi-criticism-palestinian-gaza-protests-russia/index.html

"Some, I think, are connected to Russia. And I say that having looked at this for a long time now, as you know.”

I wonder what she knows that we don't. The length of time is an interesting comment.

The old Palestinians are having a bad month after the UNRWA fiasco.

This is what's called a conspiracy theory.

[Vosem]

This guy needs to be sacked.


(CNN 28 Jan 2024)

Either (i) he knew the UNRWA staff were active in the October 7 attacks, or (ii) he had no idea about the UNRWA staff involved in the beheading and raping of Israeli civilians.

Either situation is unacceptable as a leader, and certainly, a huge stain on the reputation of the UN agencies in the region.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-chief-asks-donors-to-reconsider-as-germany-joins-cascade-freezing-funds/

The UN aid should be contingent on the release of all Israeli hostages. Why are we sending money to terrorist organisations with the funds used to murder and kidnap civilians?

Probably because not everyone in Gaza had a role in the attacks or is a Hamas supporter? I dunno man, I think you're letting the racism show a bit.

Indeed. The URNWA is irreplaceable.

God, I hope so. My fear is that after its defunding some organization will be able to replace it in funneling Western money to Hamas. Thankfully the evolution of Western public opinion is such that practices like "Palestinian aid" have become less and less tenable.