Israel-Gaza war

[GeneralMacArthur]

The JSIL terrorists were literally hoist by their own petard

This is false.  They were raiding a building that was a Hamas stronghold, and the building was rigged by Hamas with explosives and detonated.  The building was demolished, and 21 IDF soldiers were killed.

Had the raid been successful, you guys would have called it "Israeli siege of civilian building" and included any Hamas soldier casualties in your "Palestinians killed by the war" tally.

BTW, this detonated building (destroyed by Hamas) will undoubtedly be included in those "80% of homes in Gaza damaged or destroyed by the war" talking point statistics.

Really obnoxious how people can simultaneously pretend this is a one-sided war where Israel is just pounding the hell out of Gazan homes for no reason other than cruelty, and on the other hand celebrate the glorious victories of the Hamas freedom fighters as they blow up a Gazan home (undoubtedly in a "refugee camp") and succeed in killing 21 Israeli soldiers.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Clearly Israel’s tactics are above reproach, I mean only an anti-Semitic terrorist lover would be upset with this
https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1749917499330617805?s=12

[GoTfan]

Israel did not start this. Israel did not want this.

Hamas terrorist stronghold in Gaza.

Shejaiya Neighbourhood

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1FBex7NmYP/

Given the release of new rape and beheading videos of innocent Israeli's from October 7th together with the kidnapped hostages not being released, one cannot envisage Israel letting up any time soon.

One would imagine that the Gazan's are starting to regret their murder, rape and kidnapping spree of October 7th.

I find it hard to bieve that every Gazan supported it or took part in it. Then again, you're on record as saying that black people aren't real refugees and you support a guy who accused me of supporting slavery, so I'm not too surprised.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Clearly Israel’s tactics are above reproach, I mean only an anti-Semitic terrorist lover would be upset with this
https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1749917499330617805?s=12

Israeli authorities be like: if you disagree with us shooting unarmed Palestinian men you're anti-Semitic

[patzer]

Israeli authorities be like: if you disagree with us shooting unarmed Palestinian men you're anti-Semitic

Do you have a citation for any Israeli authorities saying that?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Israeli authorities be like: if you disagree with us shooting unarmed Palestinian men you're anti-Semitic

Do you have a citation for any Israeli authorities saying that?

I think you missed the point of my post. Which was to harshly mock them for bringing up inanities to deflect from systematic anti-Palestinian violence and disempower Palestinians from having any real human rights.
Have you been following what Israel's ambassador to your country has been saying about people in Gaza? By any chance?

[Meclazine for Israel]

UK Prime Minister not thrilled with Palestinian protestors describing them as either idiots or worse.

It's good to see he is on the right side of history.

Rishi Sunak

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2dNp54JU_k/

[patzer]

Israeli authorities be like: if you disagree with us shooting unarmed Palestinian men you're anti-Semitic

Do you have a citation for any Israeli authorities saying that?

I think you missed the point of my post. Which was to harshly mock them for bringing up inanities to deflect from systematic anti-Palestinian violence and disempower Palestinians from having any real human rights.
Have you been following what Israel's ambassador to your country has been saying about people in Gaza? By any chance?

Okay, so the post I quoted was something you had invented rather than referencing anything Israeli authorities have actually said, thank you for clarifying.

I've seen some of what Tzipi Hotovely has said on the war, yes- e.g. this well-written article in the Telegraph calling out the UN's systemic anti-Israel bias. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/10/uns-anti-israel-bias-must-be-addressed-for-sake-of-humanity/

[Zinneke]

Famous unbiased analyst Tzipi Hotilevy. Good that for you the Telegraph is an unbiased source though. You're killing your own credibility without us having to contribute much.

[patzer]

Famous unbiased analyst Tzipi Hotilevy. Good that for you the Telegraph is an unbiased source though. You're killing your own credibility without us having to contribute much.

There is no such thing as an unbiased source. There are, however, many competent newspapers which have their own biases, of which the Telegraph is one.

[BigSkyBob]

Hamas won't accept, and we'll continue to get anti-Israel protests throughout the United States demanding a "cease-fire" and blaming Israel (who offered a cease-fire) rather than Hamas (who rejected it) for there not being one.

Wanna know how I know this will happen?  Because, it's easy to forget, we already had a ceasefire shortly after Thanksgiving, and Hamas refused to release any more hostages and started attacking Israel again.

Not a single person, not a single organization, not a single protest or march or highway blockade or occupation of a Jewish student center, will call on Hamas to accept a cease-fire.  It will all continue to be Israel's, and solely Israel's, fault that this war continues.  The youth of this country will continue to operate under this premise that if a war has high civilian casualties, it's incumbent upon the winning party in the conflict to unilaterally and unconditionally end it and retreat.  A standard they don't apply to any other country, or any other conflict in world history.  A standard they invented solely so it could be applied to the Jewish country.

The leftists and their Arab academic allies are on a mission to destroy the Democratic Party in 2024.

Anyone genuinely believing this should seek a psychologist

Look man, for the conservative camp this is just a football match, in which their camp "win" and "leftists, wokists" lose, they aren't interested in analysis, and they only cry crocodile tears for the victims of October 7th because it makes them feel big online or in some silly debate. Oh and they think Arab lives are worth less because it's cool to be edgy.

This is what it's all about to them. Zero emotional or rational investment. As opposed to the protestors, who have emotional investment but zero rational one, and misunderstand everything about Hamas and their far right Islamist ideology.

I stand by my remark, even that CBS segment had a CAIR representative as a "swing voter." These leftists, which include many Arabs are trying to discredit Biden because they think it will lead to AOC/the squad later realizing their revolution.

No, their criticism of Biden is totally rational from an emotional perspective : Biden has exposed that the top brass of the DNC have zero emotional stake in the global order of human rights and democracy by not pressuring the crackpot far right Israeli government enough even though Bibi literally endorsed an opposition candidate against President Obama. Biden could have hung Bibi out to dry but he preferred to stick to his soulless playbook. Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election. Biden is the definition of a cuckold, he watches as Bibi rawdogs his electoral chances, openly states he wants a GOP fascist in the White House and the guy doesn't even arm wrestle Bibi to resign or just igbore the issue : he gives it more salience than it deserves by making a national address to the nation, because he's still living in the 1970s.

But where the Democrat "Squad" have it so wrong is their bizarre pseudo-intellectual framing of tgis conflict as DeCoLoNiZaTiOn as if it's somehow related to BLM or some other protest movement tgat the vast majority of people just don't care about. It makes no sense to start Learning as a Palestinian terrorist or shouting pro-Houthi slogans...Hamas and the Israeli Religious Zionist movement should both br labelled as neo -fascist reactionary agitators who should be eliminated in favour of secular alternatives. Or just leave the place to slide into their endless war

I have a hard time believing anything other than you believe that we should get rid of "neo-fascist" HAMAS first, and, get rid of the "neo-fascist [your term]" Israeli government at some unspecified time in the future. Why not do both now? It seems to me that you are playing the "neo-fascist" card against exactly one side while pretending that you are not.

[Zinneke]

Hamas won't accept, and we'll continue to get anti-Israel protests throughout the United States demanding a "cease-fire" and blaming Israel (who offered a cease-fire) rather than Hamas (who rejected it) for there not being one.

Wanna know how I know this will happen?  Because, it's easy to forget, we already had a ceasefire shortly after Thanksgiving, and Hamas refused to release any more hostages and started attacking Israel again.

Not a single person, not a single organization, not a single protest or march or highway blockade or occupation of a Jewish student center, will call on Hamas to accept a cease-fire.  It will all continue to be Israel's, and solely Israel's, fault that this war continues.  The youth of this country will continue to operate under this premise that if a war has high civilian casualties, it's incumbent upon the winning party in the conflict to unilaterally and unconditionally end it and retreat.  A standard they don't apply to any other country, or any other conflict in world history.  A standard they invented solely so it could be applied to the Jewish country.

The leftists and their Arab academic allies are on a mission to destroy the Democratic Party in 2024.

Anyone genuinely believing this should seek a psychologist

Look man, for the conservative camp this is just a football match, in which their camp "win" and "leftists, wokists" lose, they aren't interested in analysis, and they only cry crocodile tears for the victims of October 7th because it makes them feel big online or in some silly debate. Oh and they think Arab lives are worth less because it's cool to be edgy.

This is what it's all about to them. Zero emotional or rational investment. As opposed to the protestors, who have emotional investment but zero rational one, and misunderstand everything about Hamas and their far right Islamist ideology.

I stand by my remark, even that CBS segment had a CAIR representative as a "swing voter." These leftists, which include many Arabs are trying to discredit Biden because they think it will lead to AOC/the squad later realizing their revolution.

No, their criticism of Biden is totally rational from an emotional perspective : Biden has exposed that the top brass of the DNC have zero emotional stake in the global order of human rights and democracy by not pressuring the crackpot far right Israeli government enough even though Bibi literally endorsed an opposition candidate against President Obama. Biden could have hung Bibi out to dry but he preferred to stick to his soulless playbook. Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election. Biden is the definition of a cuckold, he watches as Bibi rawdogs his electoral chances, openly states he wants a GOP fascist in the White House and the guy doesn't even arm wrestle Bibi to resign or just igbore the issue : he gives it more salience than it deserves by making a national address to the nation, because he's still living in the 1970s.

But where the Democrat "Squad" have it so wrong is their bizarre pseudo-intellectual framing of tgis conflict as DeCoLoNiZaTiOn as if it's somehow related to BLM or some other protest movement tgat the vast majority of people just don't care about. It makes no sense to start Learning as a Palestinian terrorist or shouting pro-Houthi slogans...Hamas and the Israeli Religious Zionist movement should both br labelled as neo -fascist reactionary agitators who should be eliminated in favour of secular alternatives. Or just leave the place to slide into their endless war

I have a hard time believing anything other than you believe that we should get rid of "neo-fascist" HAMAS first, and, get rid of the "neo-fascist [your term]" Israeli government at some unspecified time in the future. Why not do both now? It seems to me that you are playing the "neo-fascist" card against exactly one side while pretending that you are not.

No let me be clear : both have to go, and Hamas first.

[BigSkyBob]

Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election.

Perfectly stated. Biden just gives off the impression that he cares about foreign policy more than domestic crises. If he keeps that attitude up, he will lose.

A plurality of Democrats say Fetterman expressing support for Israel improved their opinion of him. I don't know why it's so hard to accept that American voters who care about the Middle East are very supportive of the Israeli campaign, and enough of these people exist among typically-Democratic constituencies that expressing skepticism is broadly risky for Democratic politicians. (The trendlines are also not actually such that this can be expected to change in our lifetimes; public support for Israel is much greater today than it was two decades ago, which explains the difference between Biden's policies and GWB's much more skeptical ones.)

Has the Israeli offensive stalled? They haven't made much progress the last 2-3 weeks. Before, it seemed they were taking multiple blocks a day.

It's very hard to tell the remaining population to evacuate, I think (to where, after all?), so an offensive to take the remaining sections of the Gaza Strip would probably involve significantly greater civilian casualties than the stuff which has happened to date (which, again, by the standards of sieges of cities this size, has so far resulted in remarkably few civilian casualties).

The humane thing to do would be to cut off supplies and wait for them to surrender -- this would cost far fewer lives than a bombing campaign followed by ground invasion (and is probably also the humane option WRT Yemen) -- but that would require substantially greater international buy-in.

I dispute totally your assertion that starving them out is any way "humane." Gaza simply does not have government of, by and for the people of Gaza. It is a government that is of, by and for HAMAS. This war was fought to end Gaza residents sneaking across the Israeli border for employment. Employment was good for some of the people of Gaza, but, not for HAMAS since it created an incentive for peaceful coexistence. The people who worked in Israel, and, their families are going to be further impoverished as deliberate policy. Those families will blame Israel now for their woes. People take having their homes destroyed personally. Pathetic strategy Bibi! So HAMAS wins. If you starve them out, HAMAS will eat the limited food left. That is how wars work. HAMAS is fully aware that the international community will not tolerate it when Gaza residents other than HAMAS begin dying of starvation. It is a strategy that simply won't work, but will inflect suffering on the residents least responsible for 10/7.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Hamas won't accept, and we'll continue to get anti-Israel protests throughout the United States demanding a "cease-fire" and blaming Israel (who offered a cease-fire) rather than Hamas (who rejected it) for there not being one.

Wanna know how I know this will happen?  Because, it's easy to forget, we already had a ceasefire shortly after Thanksgiving, and Hamas refused to release any more hostages and started attacking Israel again.

Not a single person, not a single organization, not a single protest or march or highway blockade or occupation of a Jewish student center, will call on Hamas to accept a cease-fire.  It will all continue to be Israel's, and solely Israel's, fault that this war continues.  The youth of this country will continue to operate under this premise that if a war has high civilian casualties, it's incumbent upon the winning party in the conflict to unilaterally and unconditionally end it and retreat.  A standard they don't apply to any other country, or any other conflict in world history.  A standard they invented solely so it could be applied to the Jewish country.

The leftists and their Arab academic allies are on a mission to destroy the Democratic Party in 2024.

Anyone genuinely believing this should seek a psychologist

Look man, for the conservative camp this is just a football match, in which their camp "win" and "leftists, wokists" lose, they aren't interested in analysis, and they only cry crocodile tears for the victims of October 7th because it makes them feel big online or in some silly debate. Oh and they think Arab lives are worth less because it's cool to be edgy.

This is what it's all about to them. Zero emotional or rational investment. As opposed to the protestors, who have emotional investment but zero rational one, and misunderstand everything about Hamas and their far right Islamist ideology.

I stand by my remark, even that CBS segment had a CAIR representative as a "swing voter." These leftists, which include many Arabs are trying to discredit Biden because they think it will lead to AOC/the squad later realizing their revolution.

No, their criticism of Biden is totally rational from an emotional perspective : Biden has exposed that the top brass of the DNC have zero emotional stake in the global order of human rights and democracy by not pressuring the crackpot far right Israeli government enough even though Bibi literally endorsed an opposition candidate against President Obama. Biden could have hung Bibi out to dry but he preferred to stick to his soulless playbook. Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election. Biden is the definition of a cuckold, he watches as Bibi rawdogs his electoral chances, openly states he wants a GOP fascist in the White House and the guy doesn't even arm wrestle Bibi to resign or just igbore the issue : he gives it more salience than it deserves by making a national address to the nation, because he's still living in the 1970s.

But where the Democrat "Squad" have it so wrong is their bizarre pseudo-intellectual framing of tgis conflict as DeCoLoNiZaTiOn as if it's somehow related to BLM or some other protest movement tgat the vast majority of people just don't care about. It makes no sense to start Learning as a Palestinian terrorist or shouting pro-Houthi slogans...Hamas and the Israeli Religious Zionist movement should both br labelled as neo -fascist reactionary agitators who should be eliminated in favour of secular alternatives. Or just leave the place to slide into their endless war

I have a hard time believing anything other than you believe that we should get rid of "neo-fascist" HAMAS first, and, get rid of the "neo-fascist [your term]" Israeli government at some unspecified time in the future. Why not do both now? It seems to me that you are playing the "neo-fascist" card against exactly one side while pretending that you are not.

I don't think the scare quotes are necessary here. These are both governments with avowed fascist tendencies, not just ones that have been accused of having them by the center-left.

[BigSkyBob]

Hamas won't accept, and we'll continue to get anti-Israel protests throughout the United States demanding a "cease-fire" and blaming Israel (who offered a cease-fire) rather than Hamas (who rejected it) for there not being one.

Wanna know how I know this will happen?  Because, it's easy to forget, we already had a ceasefire shortly after Thanksgiving, and Hamas refused to release any more hostages and started attacking Israel again.

Not a single person, not a single organization, not a single protest or march or highway blockade or occupation of a Jewish student center, will call on Hamas to accept a cease-fire.  It will all continue to be Israel's, and solely Israel's, fault that this war continues.  The youth of this country will continue to operate under this premise that if a war has high civilian casualties, it's incumbent upon the winning party in the conflict to unilaterally and unconditionally end it and retreat.  A standard they don't apply to any other country, or any other conflict in world history.  A standard they invented solely so it could be applied to the Jewish country.

The leftists and their Arab academic allies are on a mission to destroy the Democratic Party in 2024.

Anyone genuinely believing this should seek a psychologist

Look man, for the conservative camp this is just a football match, in which their camp "win" and "leftists, wokists" lose, they aren't interested in analysis, and they only cry crocodile tears for the victims of October 7th because it makes them feel big online or in some silly debate. Oh and they think Arab lives are worth less because it's cool to be edgy.

This is what it's all about to them. Zero emotional or rational investment. As opposed to the protestors, who have emotional investment but zero rational one, and misunderstand everything about Hamas and their far right Islamist ideology.

I stand by my remark, even that CBS segment had a CAIR representative as a "swing voter." These leftists, which include many Arabs are trying to discredit Biden because they think it will lead to AOC/the squad later realizing their revolution.

No, their criticism of Biden is totally rational from an emotional perspective : Biden has exposed that the top brass of the DNC have zero emotional stake in the global order of human rights and democracy by not pressuring the crackpot far right Israeli government enough even though Bibi literally endorsed an opposition candidate against President Obama. Biden could have hung Bibi out to dry but he preferred to stick to his soulless playbook. Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election. Biden is the definition of a cuckold, he watches as Bibi rawdogs his electoral chances, openly states he wants a GOP fascist in the White House and the guy doesn't even arm wrestle Bibi to resign or just igbore the issue : he gives it more salience than it deserves by making a national address to the nation, because he's still living in the 1970s.

But where the Democrat "Squad" have it so wrong is their bizarre pseudo-intellectual framing of tgis conflict as DeCoLoNiZaTiOn as if it's somehow related to BLM or some other protest movement tgat the vast majority of people just don't care about. It makes no sense to start Learning as a Palestinian terrorist or shouting pro-Houthi slogans...Hamas and the Israeli Religious Zionist movement should both br labelled as neo -fascist reactionary agitators who should be eliminated in favour of secular alternatives. Or just leave the place to slide into their endless war

I have a hard time believing anything other than you believe that we should get rid of "neo-fascist" HAMAS first, and, get rid of the "neo-fascist [your term]" Israeli government at some unspecified time in the future. Why not do both now? It seems to me that you are playing the "neo-fascist" card against exactly one side while pretending that you are not.

No let me be clear : both have to go, and Hamas first.

I think Bibi should go first. If he had a sense of honor, he would have resigned in disgrace for allowing his military to be caught with its pants down, so to speak. Instead, he tried to be the hero by "being tough." HAMAS should go because it deliberately acted end the employment of hundreds of thousands Gaza residents who worked in Israel. Gaza has an authoritarian government while Israel is alleged "democratic." Surely, Democratic nations should be more efficient in deposing unjust rulers.

[BigSkyBob]

Hamas won't accept, and we'll continue to get anti-Israel protests throughout the United States demanding a "cease-fire" and blaming Israel (who offered a cease-fire) rather than Hamas (who rejected it) for there not being one.

Wanna know how I know this will happen?  Because, it's easy to forget, we already had a ceasefire shortly after Thanksgiving, and Hamas refused to release any more hostages and started attacking Israel again.

Not a single person, not a single organization, not a single protest or march or highway blockade or occupation of a Jewish student center, will call on Hamas to accept a cease-fire.  It will all continue to be Israel's, and solely Israel's, fault that this war continues.  The youth of this country will continue to operate under this premise that if a war has high civilian casualties, it's incumbent upon the winning party in the conflict to unilaterally and unconditionally end it and retreat.  A standard they don't apply to any other country, or any other conflict in world history.  A standard they invented solely so it could be applied to the Jewish country.

The leftists and their Arab academic allies are on a mission to destroy the Democratic Party in 2024.

Anyone genuinely believing this should seek a psychologist

Look man, for the conservative camp this is just a football match, in which their camp "win" and "leftists, wokists" lose, they aren't interested in analysis, and they only cry crocodile tears for the victims of October 7th because it makes them feel big online or in some silly debate. Oh and they think Arab lives are worth less because it's cool to be edgy.

This is what it's all about to them. Zero emotional or rational investment. As opposed to the protestors, who have emotional investment but zero rational one, and misunderstand everything about Hamas and their far right Islamist ideology.

I stand by my remark, even that CBS segment had a CAIR representative as a "swing voter." These leftists, which include many Arabs are trying to discredit Biden because they think it will lead to AOC/the squad later realizing their revolution.

No, their criticism of Biden is totally rational from an emotional perspective : Biden has exposed that the top brass of the DNC have zero emotional stake in the global order of human rights and democracy by not pressuring the crackpot far right Israeli government enough even though Bibi literally endorsed an opposition candidate against President Obama. Biden could have hung Bibi out to dry but he preferred to stick to his soulless playbook. Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election. Biden is the definition of a cuckold, he watches as Bibi rawdogs his electoral chances, openly states he wants a GOP fascist in the White House and the guy doesn't even arm wrestle Bibi to resign or just igbore the issue : he gives it more salience than it deserves by making a national address to the nation, because he's still living in the 1970s.

But where the Democrat "Squad" have it so wrong is their bizarre pseudo-intellectual framing of tgis conflict as DeCoLoNiZaTiOn as if it's somehow related to BLM or some other protest movement tgat the vast majority of people just don't care about. It makes no sense to start Learning as a Palestinian terrorist or shouting pro-Houthi slogans...Hamas and the Israeli Religious Zionist movement should both br labelled as neo -fascist reactionary agitators who should be eliminated in favour of secular alternatives. Or just leave the place to slide into their endless war

I have a hard time believing anything other than you believe that we should get rid of "neo-fascist" HAMAS first, and, get rid of the "neo-fascist [your term]" Israeli government at some unspecified time in the future. Why not do both now? It seems to me that you are playing the "neo-fascist" card against exactly one side while pretending that you are not.

I don't think the scare quotes are necessary here. These are both governments with avowed fascist tendencies, not just ones that have been accused of having them by the center-left.

Fascism is the political philosophy of Benito Mussolini who posited the state was everything, and the individual was secondary, or tertiary. HAMAS is theocratic: God is everything, the state is subservient to God.  England's "For King and Country!" is a fascist ideal. Does Bibi actually believe the State is everything and the individual Jew secondary, or tertiary? I don't doubt Bibi considers the average Israeli non-Jew to be next to nothing.

[omar04]

The JSIL terrorists were literally hoist by their own petard

This is false.  They were raiding a building that was a Hamas stronghold, and the building was rigged by Hamas with explosives and detonated.  The building was demolished, and 21 IDF soldiers were killed.

Had the raid been successful, you guys would have called it "Israeli siege of civilian building" and included any Hamas soldier casualties in your "Palestinians killed by the war" tally.

BTW, this detonated building (destroyed by Hamas) will undoubtedly be included in those "80% of homes in Gaza damaged or destroyed by the war" talking point statistics.

Really obnoxious how people can simultaneously pretend this is a one-sided war where Israel is just pounding the hell out of Gazan homes for no reason other than cruelty, and on the other hand celebrate the glorious victories of the Hamas freedom fighters as they blow up a Gazan home (undoubtedly in a "refugee camp") and succeed in killing 21 Israeli soldiers.

According to an IDF spokesman the reservists were rigging explosives:

As part of the effort to build the buffer zone, Israeli reservists were rigging explosives to demolish two buildings inside the enclave’s perimeter on Monday when Hamas militants fired rocket-propelled grenades at the mission, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said. The first hit a building holding explosives, causing the collapse of two buildings and killing 21 soldiers. Another RPG round hit a tank, he added.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/23/israel-soldiers-killed-gaza-war-hostages/

[Horus]

https://twitter.com/yuval_abraham/status/1750123648533324158?t=bW75iFFB6DOW2LA4D...

Looks like the numbers coming out of the Gazan health ministry aren't as unreliable as some claim.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Hamas won't accept, and we'll continue to get anti-Israel protests throughout the United States demanding a "cease-fire" and blaming Israel (who offered a cease-fire) rather than Hamas (who rejected it) for there not being one.

Wanna know how I know this will happen?  Because, it's easy to forget, we already had a ceasefire shortly after Thanksgiving, and Hamas refused to release any more hostages and started attacking Israel again.

Not a single person, not a single organization, not a single protest or march or highway blockade or occupation of a Jewish student center, will call on Hamas to accept a cease-fire.  It will all continue to be Israel's, and solely Israel's, fault that this war continues.  The youth of this country will continue to operate under this premise that if a war has high civilian casualties, it's incumbent upon the winning party in the conflict to unilaterally and unconditionally end it and retreat.  A standard they don't apply to any other country, or any other conflict in world history.  A standard they invented solely so it could be applied to the Jewish country.

The leftists and their Arab academic allies are on a mission to destroy the Democratic Party in 2024.

Anyone genuinely believing this should seek a psychologist

Look man, for the conservative camp this is just a football match, in which their camp "win" and "leftists, wokists" lose, they aren't interested in analysis, and they only cry crocodile tears for the victims of October 7th because it makes them feel big online or in some silly debate. Oh and they think Arab lives are worth less because it's cool to be edgy.

This is what it's all about to them. Zero emotional or rational investment. As opposed to the protestors, who have emotional investment but zero rational one, and misunderstand everything about Hamas and their far right Islamist ideology.

I stand by my remark, even that CBS segment had a CAIR representative as a "swing voter." These leftists, which include many Arabs are trying to discredit Biden because they think it will lead to AOC/the squad later realizing their revolution.

No, their criticism of Biden is totally rational from an emotional perspective : Biden has exposed that the top brass of the DNC have zero emotional stake in the global order of human rights and democracy by not pressuring the crackpot far right Israeli government enough even though Bibi literally endorsed an opposition candidate against President Obama. Biden could have hung Bibi out to dry but he preferred to stick to his soulless playbook. Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election. Biden is the definition of a cuckold, he watches as Bibi rawdogs his electoral chances, openly states he wants a GOP fascist in the White House and the guy doesn't even arm wrestle Bibi to resign or just igbore the issue : he gives it more salience than it deserves by making a national address to the nation, because he's still living in the 1970s.

But where the Democrat "Squad" have it so wrong is their bizarre pseudo-intellectual framing of tgis conflict as DeCoLoNiZaTiOn as if it's somehow related to BLM or some other protest movement tgat the vast majority of people just don't care about. It makes no sense to start Learning as a Palestinian terrorist or shouting pro-Houthi slogans...Hamas and the Israeli Religious Zionist movement should both br labelled as neo -fascist reactionary agitators who should be eliminated in favour of secular alternatives. Or just leave the place to slide into their endless war

I have a hard time believing anything other than you believe that we should get rid of "neo-fascist" HAMAS first, and, get rid of the "neo-fascist [your term]" Israeli government at some unspecified time in the future. Why not do both now? It seems to me that you are playing the "neo-fascist" card against exactly one side while pretending that you are not.

I don't think the scare quotes are necessary here. These are both governments with avowed fascist tendencies, not just ones that have been accused of having them by the center-left.

Fascism is the political philosophy of Benito Mussolini who posited the state was everything, and the individual was secondary, or tertiary. HAMAS is theocratic: God is everything, the state is subservient to God.  England's "For King and Country!" is a fascist ideal. Does Bibi actually believe the State is everything and the individual Jew secondary, or tertiary? I don't doubt Bibi considers the average Israeli non-Jew to be next to nothing.

Bezalel Smotrich has expressly described himself as a fascist--not Bibi, but a prominent minister in the government. I should have said "avowed fascist components," perhaps, rather than "tendencies." I could swear I've seen similar comments from Hamas leaders in the past, but I can't find sources so I'll concede the point on them for now.

[GoTfan]

Call me a tinfoil hatter, but there is no way Israel, a country with the most sophisticated intelligence network in the world that regularly employs the Tenth Man Rule, was caught off-guard. There was some other reason why this slipped through the net.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Wasn't it the Gaza Health Ministry that claimed Israel bombed that hospital and killed 500 people?  And then it turned out the hospital was perfectly fine.  It's still there today.  IIRC they also (along with the UNRWA, Doctors Without Borders, Red Crescent, etc.) insisted the hospital Israel did besiege was purely civilian and had never been used by combatants.  You know, the one that had a huge tunnel complex underneath it and video footage on the security tapes of doctors helping Hamas fighters escort captive Jews into the building.

My biggest problem with the Gaza Health Ministry number is that they don't distinguish between Hamas fighters and civilian casualties.  They'll say, 25,000 have been killed.  And then people will run around and act like that's 25,000 civilians.  For all we know it could be 10,000 combatants and 15,000 civilians.  Hamas surely knows this information, but they don't release it.

The one number they do release is "67% of casualties are women or children." I was curious about this because I wanted to get just the number of women.  My theory was that if 40% of the casualties are women and 60% are men, and the general population is an even male/female split, then we could say 80% civilian casualties (half women) plus 20% combatant casualties (all men) gives us the 40/60 split and a rough sense of the combatant/civilian split.  But I can't find any source that says just the women killed.  Does anyone know if this exists?

I mean my guess is that we're seeing about a 5:1 civilian:military casualty ratio right now.  But there's no way to really know.  At any rate, Hamas is of course to blame for a high rate of civilian death since it is their strategy to use civilians as human shields and civilian buildings for military operations (both egregious violations of the Geneva convention).

[GP270watch]

 Israel is committing war crimes and genocide on the people of Gaza. They are blowing up homes, schools, refugee shelters, hospitals, churches, and mosques to kill or make Gazans flee and then telling the media they are destroying "terrorist infrastructure" which is inane doublespeak.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Israel is committing war crimes and genocide on the people of Gaza. They are blowing up homes, schools, refugee shelters, hospitals, churches, and mosques to make Gazans flee and then telling the media they are destroying "terrorist infrastructure" which is inane doublespeak.

Opening with a blood libel indicates that there is no point in debating the rest of your points.

The only act of genocide in this conflict was perpetrated on October 7th by Hamas.

[GP270watch]

Israel is committing war crimes and genocide on the people of Gaza. They are blowing up homes, schools, refugee shelters, hospitals, churches, and mosques to make Gazans flee and then telling the media they are destroying "terrorist infrastructure" which is inane doublespeak.

Opening with a blood libel indicates that there is no point in debating the rest of your points.

The only act of genocide in this conflict was perpetrated on October 7th by Hamas.

 Tens of thousands are already dead in Gaza. Israel's massive and inept intelligence failure and Hamas's attack on Oct 7th does not justify the continued killing of innocent civilians.

Even President Biden has said that Israel has engaged in indiscriminate bombing, so one has to wonder when he will stop supplying them with bombs!

 Your "Blood Libel" nonsense accusation is a desperate and weak attack to not deal with reality and accept the truth. What Israel is doing is wrong.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Israel is committing war crimes and genocide on the people of Gaza. They are blowing up homes, schools, refugee shelters, hospitals, churches, and mosques to make Gazans flee and then telling the media they are destroying "terrorist infrastructure" which is inane doublespeak.

Opening with a blood libel indicates that there is no point in debating the rest of your points.

The only act of genocide in this conflict was perpetrated on October 7th by Hamas.

 Tens of thousands are already dead in Gaza. Israel's massive and inept intelligence failure and Hamas's attack on Oct 7th does not justify the continued killing of innocent civilians.

Even President Biden has said that Israel has engaged in indiscriminate bombing, so one has to wonder when he will stop supplying them with bombs!

 Your "Blood Libel" nonsense accusation is a desperate and weak attack to not deal with reality and accept the truth. What Israel is doing is wrong.

Israel's bog-standard military response to an attack of this scale would not be considered genocide or even war crimes by literally any other country if an act of genocide was perpetrated against them. We know what this is. The crime is existing as a Jew, the penalty is death, and the act of self-defense is evidence. Same as it ever was, except this time we're done listening.

If Hamas wants to live, they can surrender and give back our people. If the rest of the world wants the conflict to stop, they can work to make that happen. Any attempts to force Israel to stop will escalate the conflict, not lessen it.