Israel-Gaza war

[Silent Hunter]

None of this is to make any argument in favor of, or against, such a population transfer.  But I do want to put a stop to the false notion that the Sinai Peninsula is just a barren wasteland of people living in tents, if nobody else is going to.  On the contrary, one of the main industries in Sinai currently is tourism -- those coastal cities are home to lots of beach resorts.  I myself had the opportunity to spend a night at Sharm-al-Sheikh when I was in Egypt a while back, but I chose to visit the Suez Canal instead because I'm a nerd.

Indeed, those coastal areas are considered safe for tourists, unlike the northern part:

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/egypt

[GeneralMacArthur]

One other thing worth mentioning.

Ultimately, a lot of the civil problems Gaza suffers come down to simply overpopulation... the population of Gaza has quintupled in the last 40 years.  Even for an ordinary city that's unsustainable, much less a fragile desert city with extremely limited access to basic resources.

So for any talk of a home for the Gazans, said home will ultimately prove unsustainable if their population continues to grow at its current rate.  If we reach year 2060 and there's ten million Gazans or whatever, that will be a humanitarian catastrophe regardless of where they live.  Certainly the resources of the Gaza strip would be utterly incapable of maintaining that population even if the full weight of the Israeli state was dedicated to providing for them.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Likud lawmaker Danny Danon doubles down on 'voluntary migration' calls after U.S. rejects idea

Likud MK Vaturi: Gaza must be burned. There are no innocents left there, those who remain must be eliminated

"They don't really mean that" - GMac

Again, unless this is actual Israeli government policy I'm not sure what the point in discussing it is, other than to embarrass the IDF by association.

The only reason we can't do this tenfold for the Palestinians is that Gaza doesn't actually have a government with officials and delegates who meet and discuss things and give interviews and deliver speeches.

What they have instead is a handful of bloodthirsty psychopathic leaders -- glorified fundraisers whose main skill is to acquire cash from Iran and then donate half of it to Hamas militants and spend the other half on hookers and Lamborghinis -- who occasionally deign to give interviews where they discuss their plans to eradicate the child-eating sodomite horned vermin from the face of the earth and boast about all the rapes and killings and kidnappings they've pulled off.

And then they also have an army of simps online who insist that those interviews don't accurately reflect the worldview or intentions of the Gazan people.

[GoTfan]

Now Gmac is advocating for a forced removal because "Oh it's not a good place to live anyway."

[GeneralMacArthur]

Now Gmac is advocating for a forced removal because "Oh it's not a good place to live anyway."

I am not advocating for anything, just correcting false information when I see it.

[GoTfan]

Now Gmac is advocating for a forced removal because "Oh it's not a good place to live anyway."

I am not advocating for anything, just correcting false information when I see it.

"Oh hey, I know you didn't spend your entire life here, but it's so much better than where you were before!"

I've studied history about as much as anyone else has, so I can tell you a certain incident in the US where this exact argument was made.

[Lief 🗽]

Thank you President Biden for bringing Bibi to heel.
https://twitter.com/israelipm/status/1745186120109846710?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJk...

[GoTfan]

Thank you President Biden for bringing Bibi to heel.
https://twitter.com/israelipm/status/1745186120109846710?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJk...

Does anyone actually believe this?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Thank you President Biden for bringing Bibi to heel.
https://twitter.com/israelipm/status/1745186120109846710?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJk...

Does anyone actually believe this?

His emergency wartime coalition probably wouldn't go along with a reoccupation of Gaza, and his attempt to push things through with a thin far-right coalition didn't go well for him previously.

[Pres Mike]

Likud lawmaker Danny Danon doubles down on 'voluntary migration' calls after U.S. rejects idea

Likud MK Vaturi: Gaza must be burned. There are no innocents left there, those who remain must be eliminated

"They don't really mean that" - GMac

And then they also have an army of simps online who insist that those interviews don't accurately reflect the worldview or intentions of the Gazan people.

Because it isn't. I am a Palestinian. I have been in Palestine. Palestinians are just normal people.

Gaza is filled with 2.5 million innocent people, held hostage by Hamas. Hamas illegally and violently seized control of the strip in 2007. No, they won't voted into power. They won a plurity and their platform was very different than their rule.

But I guess its easier to justify 25k deaths if you think the people dying are brainwashed

[Lief 🗽]

Likud lawmaker Danny Danon doubles down on 'voluntary migration' calls after U.S. rejects idea

Likud MK Vaturi: Gaza must be burned. There are no innocents left there, those who remain must be eliminated

"They don't really mean that" - GMac

And then they also have an army of simps online who insist that those interviews don't accurately reflect the worldview or intentions of the Gazan people.

Because it isn't. I am a Palestinian. I have been in Palestine. Palestinians are just normal people.

Gaza is filled with 2.5 million innocent people, held hostage by Hamas. Hamas illegally and violently seized control of the strip in 2007. No, they won't voted into power. They won a plurity and their platform was very different than their rule.

But I guess its easier to justify 25k deaths if you think the people dying are brainwashed

Every poll I have seen shows that Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are broadly supportive of the 10/7 attack and Hamas (and if anything the more extreme rivals of Hamas are even more popular) and opposed to a Jewish state. That obviously doesn’t justify wanton murder of Palestinians (just because a civilian has evil beliefs doesn’t mean they should be killed) but it’s still the reality that needs to be dealt with when trying to solve this conflict.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Likud lawmaker Danny Danon doubles down on 'voluntary migration' calls after U.S. rejects idea

Likud MK Vaturi: Gaza must be burned. There are no innocents left there, those who remain must be eliminated

"They don't really mean that" - GMac

And then they also have an army of simps online who insist that those interviews don't accurately reflect the worldview or intentions of the Gazan people.

Because it isn't. I am a Palestinian. I have been in Palestine. Palestinians are just normal people.

Gaza is filled with 2.5 million innocent people, held hostage by Hamas. Hamas illegally and violently seized control of the strip in 2007. No, they won't voted into power. They won a plurity and their platform was very different than their rule.

But I guess its easier to justify 25k deaths if you think the people dying are brainwashed

I have literally never once in my life said that the Palestinian civilians "deserve to die."  I have only said that casualties of war are inevitable.

With that said there is plenty of evidence that the Gazans do support Hamas.  There are polls that show this, but I am sure you will reject all of them.  So if we're ignoring all the hard evidence we have nothing but anecdotes.  You can say that you and your immediate circle do not support Hamas.  I can point to plenty of videos, interviews, social media posts, etc. of Gazans who do support Hamas (and thought 10/7 was awesome).  The one thing I do note is that there has never been any effort by the people of Gaza to end the rule of Hamas and I only know of one single time there was ever an anti-Hamas protest.  If the people of Gaza truly despise Hamas and want to rid themselves of their elected leaders, they certainly don't give any indication of it.

So I don't believe it's fair to say that they're held hostage by Hamas in the same way that the citizens of Raqqa were held hostage by ISIS.  But if they are, then surely you must then support the Israeli action, since clearly it's the only way for the citizens of Gaza to ever be free?  After all I'm sure you're going to now say that it's physically impossible for the Gazans to cast off Hamas on their own because Hamas is just too powerful.

[Pres Mike]

Likud lawmaker Danny Danon doubles down on 'voluntary migration' calls after U.S. rejects idea

Likud MK Vaturi: Gaza must be burned. There are no innocents left there, those who remain must be eliminated

"They don't really mean that" - GMac

And then they also have an army of simps online who insist that those interviews don't accurately reflect the worldview or intentions of the Gazan people.

Because it isn't. I am a Palestinian. I have been in Palestine. Palestinians are just normal people.

Gaza is filled with 2.5 million innocent people, held hostage by Hamas. Hamas illegally and violently seized control of the strip in 2007. No, they won't voted into power. They won a plurity and their platform was very different than their rule.

But I guess its easier to justify 25k deaths if you think the people dying are brainwashed

I have literally never once in my life said that the Palestinian civilians "deserve to die."  I have only said that casualties of war are inevitable.

With that said there is plenty of evidence that the Gazans do support Hamas.  There are polls that show this, but I am sure you will reject all of them.  So if we're ignoring all the hard evidence we have nothing but anecdotes.  You can say that you and your immediate circle do not support Hamas.  I can point to plenty of videos, interviews, social media posts, etc. of Gazans who do support Hamas (and thought 10/7 was awesome).  The one thing I do note is that there has never been any effort by the people of Gaza to end the rule of Hamas and I only know of one single time there was ever an anti-Hamas protest.  If the people of Gaza truly despise Hamas and want to rid themselves of their elected leaders, they certainly don't give any indication of it.

So I don't believe it's fair to say that they're held hostage by Hamas in the same way that the citizens of Raqqa were held hostage by ISIS.  But if they are, then surely you must then support the Israeli action, since clearly it's the only way for the citizens of Gaza to ever be free?  After all I'm sure you're going to now say that it's physically impossible for the Gazans to cast off Hamas on their own because Hamas is just too powerful.

I do not belive that the people of Gaza are capable of overthorwing Hamas on their own. Hamas is an Iranian proxy along with Hezbollah. I do not support the current Israeli military operation. After the 10/7 attacks, I acknowledged Israel's right to defend itself and hoped they would remove Hamas from power. I hoped for a quick military operation like what occured in Jan 2009 when the IDF quickly seized the strip.

What I don't support is a long drawn out military operation to help keep Netanyahu in power as long as possible

I should also note that Hamas regularly executes people in Gaza for being anti Hamas. That suggests some resistance

I know that most Palestinians do not care for Hamas. Do they despise Hamas? Probably not. Many see them as "freedom fighters" which they clearly are not. But most are just regular people who go to work and live their lives

[GeneralMacArthur]

The Israeli operation is to destroy Hamas.  It was universally recognized within about five seconds of the 10/7 news breaking that this would be Israel's objective.  Sorry it's taking longer than you expected.  Maybe if the Gazans were willing to help Israel out it would go quicker.

After all, allegedly they want to get rid of Hamas even more badly than Israel does, right?

But it's just been too hard for the last sixteen years.  Otherwise they totally would have.  But it's just so difficult.  So why even try.

Much more difficult than, say, the French Resistance.  What are the Nazis compared to the might of Hamas?

And it's not like an anti-Hamas resistance movement would be able to get support from, say, Israel or America or the EU or, heck, Fatah.  Or ISIS, who also hate Hamas and declared war on them six years ago.

The truth is that even the Gazans who oppose Hamas are more upset about the decline of living conditions under Hamas rule than they are about Hamas's obsession with killing Jewish civilians (which they by-and-large support).  That anti-Hamas protest I mentioned earlier this year?  It was because Qatar used to pay a monthly stipend to Gazan families, and Hamas started taxing that stipend so they could send the money back to Qatar for Ismail Haniyeh to use on more tributes to his Telegram findomme.  That's what the Gazans were upset about -- not the missile attacks, not the suicide bombings, not the kidnappings.

If Hamas were able to competently administer Gaza but otherwise maintain their fanatical extremist ideology and obsession with killing innocent Jews at all costs, I'd be willing to bet their approvals would be 80-90%.

[GoTfan]

The Israeli operation is to destroy Hamas.  It was universally recognized within about five seconds of the 10/7 news breaking that this would be Israel's objective.  Sorry it's taking longer than you expected.  Maybe if the Gazans were willing to help Israel out it would go quicker.

After all, allegedly they want to get rid of Hamas even more badly than Israel does, right?

But it's just been too hard for the last sixteen years.  Otherwise they totally would have.  But it's just so difficult.  So why even try.

Much more difficult than, say, the French Resistance.  What are the Nazis compared to the might of Hamas?

And it's not like an anti-Hamas resistance movement would be able to get support from, say, Israel or America or the EU or, heck, Fatah.  Or ISIS, who also hate Hamas and declared war on them six years ago.

The truth is that even the Gazans who oppose Hamas are more upset about the decline of living conditions under Hamas rule than they are about Hamas's obsession with killing Jewish civilians (which they by-and-large support).  That anti-Hamas protest I mentioned earlier this year?  It was because Qatar used to pay a monthly stipend to Gazan families, and Hamas started taxing that stipend so they could send the money back to Qatar for Ismail Haniyeh to use on more tributes to his Telegram findomme.  That's what the Gazans were upset about -- not the missile attacks, not the suicide bombings, not the kidnappings.

If Hamas were able to competently administer Gaza but otherwise maintain their fanatical extremist ideology and obsession with killing innocent Jews at all costs, I'd be willing to bet their approvals would be 80-90%.

So a Palestinian gives you their opinion on the whole thing-which us going to have significantly more personal insight that most of us the rest of us-and you just want to rubbish them and pretend they're an idiot?

[BigSkyBob]

The Israeli operation is to destroy Hamas.  It was universally recognized within about five seconds of the 10/7 news breaking that this would be Israel's objective.  Sorry it's taking longer than you expected.  Maybe if the Gazans were willing to help Israel out it would go quicker.

After all, allegedly they want to get rid of Hamas even more badly than Israel does, right?

But it's just been too hard for the last sixteen years.  Otherwise they totally would have.  But it's just so difficult.  So why even try.

Much more difficult than, say, the French Resistance.  What are the Nazis compared to the might of Hamas?

And it's not like an anti-Hamas resistance movement would be able to get support from, say, Israel or America or the EU or, heck, Fatah.  Or ISIS, who also hate Hamas and declared war on them six years ago.

The truth is that even the Gazans who oppose Hamas are more upset about the decline of living conditions under Hamas rule than they are about Hamas's obsession with killing Jewish civilians (which they by-and-large support).  That anti-Hamas protest I mentioned earlier this year?  It was because Qatar used to pay a monthly stipend to Gazan families, and Hamas started taxing that stipend so they could send the money back to Qatar for Ismail Haniyeh to use on more tributes to his Telegram findomme.  That's what the Gazans were upset about -- not the missile attacks, not the suicide bombings, not the kidnappings.

If Hamas were able to competently administer Gaza but otherwise maintain their fanatical extremist ideology and obsession with killing innocent Jews at all costs, I'd be willing to bet their approvals would be 80-90%.

Three predictions were immediately obvious to me on 10/7. First, the Israeli strategy would be to depopulate Gaza. Already, there are rumors of Israel negotiating with Congo to take Palestinians. It's kinda, sorta easiler to convince people to leave "voluntarily" after you have destroyed their home. They used the existence of a series of tunnels used by Palestinians to work in Israel without a visa to drop as many MOABs to allegedly destroy said employment tunnels. When that didn't fly, they magically discovered that maybe they could simply flood said tunnels. Israel is not fighting a war against HAMAS, they are waging a war the physical infrastructure there. The goal is to destroy every physical building, no more, no less. That is why the war drags on and on. They took all of the Sinai in six days, but they cannot take the Gaza Strip in 6 weeks. Right!

The second thing to me that was obvious is that HAMAS was going to win. The basic point of the attack was to further radicalize their own population, a goal that Israel played right into their hands. Part and parcel of their strategy was putting an end to Gaza residents sneaking into Israel through employment tunnels. Employment in Israel was a problem for HAMAS. It created a vested interest in peace and co-existence among those employed and their families. That problem has been solved, probably permanently.

The third outcome was also clear: the American taxpayer was going to subsidize the destruction of  the physical infrastructure in Gaza, to appease internal political pressure, and, that the American taxpayer was to going to end up paying a large part of the bill to rebuild due to international pressure.

We have a national debt of 34 trillion and cannot afford to pay one group of people to destroy buildings, and another to rebuild them. But, that is what is happening.

[GeneralMacArthur]

So a Palestinian gives you their opinion on the whole thing-which us going to have significantly more personal insight that most of us the rest of us-and you just want to rubbish them and pretend they're an idiot?

Just because someone is Palestinian doesn't mean everything they say about Palestine or the Israel-Gaza conflict is true, lmao.  Hamas is Palestinian, do you take everything Hamas says about Gaza as gospel because they have "significantly more personal insight"?

Or, and I know this is crazy but bear with me, do you just pick things people say that you agree with, and invent rationalizations after the fact for why you choose to continue believing them in the face of compelling facts and arguments?

[lfromnj]

I dont think the people of Gaza are capable of overthrowing Hamas but it is interesting that protests are a regular occurrence in Iran despite heavy usage of executions but not in Gaza.

[Pres Mike]

I dont think the people of Gaza are capable of overthrowing Hamas but it is interesting that protests are a regular occurrence in Iran despite heavy usage of executions but not in Gaza.

Because anger towards Israel is MUCH stronger than Hamas

The Israeli operation is to destroy Hamas.  It was universally recognized within about five seconds of the 10/7 news breaking that this would be Israel's objective.  Sorry it's taking longer than you expected.  Maybe if the Gazans were willing to help Israel out it would go quicker.

After all, allegedly they want to get rid of Hamas even more badly than Israel does, right?

But it's just been too hard for the last sixteen years.  Otherwise they totally would have.  But it's just so difficult.  So why even try.

Much more difficult than, say, the French Resistance.  What are the Nazis compared to the might of Hamas?

And it's not like an anti-Hamas resistance movement would be able to get support from, say, Israel or America or the EU or, heck, Fatah.  Or ISIS, who also hate Hamas and declared war on them six years ago.

The truth is that even the Gazans who oppose Hamas are more upset about the decline of living conditions under Hamas rule than they are about Hamas's obsession with killing Jewish civilians (which they by-and-large support).  That anti-Hamas protest I mentioned earlier this year?  It was because Qatar used to pay a monthly stipend to Gazan families, and Hamas started taxing that stipend so they could send the money back to Qatar for Ismail Haniyeh to use on more tributes to his Telegram findomme.  That's what the Gazans were upset about -- not the missile attacks, not the suicide bombings, not the kidnappings.

If Hamas were able to competently administer Gaza but otherwise maintain their fanatical extremist ideology and obsession with killing innocent Jews at all costs, I'd be willing to bet their approvals would be 80-90%.

The French Resistance had support from the allies. Its also important to note, Netanyahu's government secretly supported Hamas. Nice little excuse to avoid two state negotiations.

The fact that Fatah exists as a rival political group shows that not all Palestinians support violence. Fatah and Gaza had a literal civil war in 2006.

Like I said, the average person in Gaza doesn't care for Hamas. Hamas closed movie theaters and concerts. Like I said, the average person doesn't outright oppose Hamas. Not caring for someone isn't an excuse to rise up in violence. Rise up against a Iran armed proxy.

I have family in the Fatah controlled West Bank. NO ONE wants Hamas to take over the West Bank. People enjoy their movies and concerts and not having to wear hajib

The Israeli operation is to destroy Hamas.  It was universally recognized within about five seconds of the 10/7 news breaking that this would be Israel's objective.  Sorry it's taking longer than you expected.  Maybe if the Gazans were willing to help Israel out it would go quicker.

After all, allegedly they want to get rid of Hamas even more badly than Israel does, right?

But it's just been too hard for the last sixteen years.  Otherwise they totally would have.  But it's just so difficult.  So why even try.

Much more difficult than, say, the French Resistance.  What are the Nazis compared to the might of Hamas?

And it's not like an anti-Hamas resistance movement would be able to get support from, say, Israel or America or the EU or, heck, Fatah.  Or ISIS, who also hate Hamas and declared war on them six years ago.

The truth is that even the Gazans who oppose Hamas are more upset about the decline of living conditions under Hamas rule than they are about Hamas's obsession with killing Jewish civilians (which they by-and-large support).  That anti-Hamas protest I mentioned earlier this year?  It was because Qatar used to pay a monthly stipend to Gazan families, and Hamas started taxing that stipend so they could send the money back to Qatar for Ismail Haniyeh to use on more tributes to his Telegram findomme.  That's what the Gazans were upset about -- not the missile attacks, not the suicide bombings, not the kidnappings.

If Hamas were able to competently administer Gaza but otherwise maintain their fanatical extremist ideology and obsession with killing innocent Jews at all costs, I'd be willing to bet their approvals would be 80-90%.

So a Palestinian gives you their opinion on the whole thing-which us going to have significantly more personal insight that most of us the rest of us-and you just want to rubbish them and pretend they're an idiot?

Thank you! I appreciate that

So a Palestinian gives you their opinion on the whole thing-which us going to have significantly more personal insight that most of us the rest of us-and you just want to rubbish them and pretend they're an idiot?

Just because someone is Palestinian doesn't mean everything they say about Palestine or the Israel-Gaza conflict is true, lmao.  Hamas is Palestinian, do you take everything Hamas says about Gaza as gospel because they have "significantly more personal insight"?

Or, and I know this is crazy but bear with me, do you just pick things people say that you agree with, and invent rationalizations after the fact for why you choose to continue believing them in the face of compelling facts and arguments?

Look at all my posts in this thread. You aren't going to meet a more fair and unbiased Palestinian American than me.

[All Along The Watchtower]

So a Palestinian gives you their opinion on the whole thing-which us going to have significantly more personal insight that most of us the rest of us-and you just want to rubbish them and pretend they're an idiot?

Well you can’t expect Palestinians to have things worth saying, a majority support Hamas after all, unlike some guy in Washington who clearly knows more about the Palestinian territories than anyone living there or with family there.

/s

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The truth is that even the Gazans who oppose Hamas are more upset about the decline of living conditions under Hamas rule than they are about Hamas's obsession with killing Jewish civilians (which they by-and-large support).  That anti-Hamas protest I mentioned earlier this year?  It was because Qatar used to pay a monthly stipend to Gazan families, and Hamas started taxing that stipend so they could send the money back to Qatar for Ismail Haniyeh to use on more tributes to his Telegram findomme.  That's what the Gazans were upset about -- not the missile attacks, not the suicide bombings, not the kidnappings.

To be fair, wouldn't you be?

[PSOL]

I dont think the people of Gaza are capable of overthrowing Hamas but it is interesting that protests are a regular occurrence in Iran despite heavy usage of executions but not in Gaza.

Protests regularly happen in Gaza however with mixed results given that Hamas does have to pay lip service to popular support else having to balance opposition from other Palestinian groups and the civil service. Gaza was ran far more democratically than Jordan or Kuwait, and part of the reason why is because of the proliferation of arms in the hands of a wide variety of citizens.

The Iranian government however does not give a s••• about bending the knee and is in it for personal enrichment, so they are more willing to gun down and execute protesters because they view them and the wide array of opposition figures with open hostility to their rule.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I dont think the people of Gaza are capable of overthrowing Hamas but it is interesting that protests are a regular occurrence in Iran despite heavy usage of executions but not in Gaza.

Because anger towards Israel is MUCH stronger than Hamas

The Israeli operation is to destroy Hamas.  It was universally recognized within about five seconds of the 10/7 news breaking that this would be Israel's objective.  Sorry it's taking longer than you expected.  Maybe if the Gazans were willing to help Israel out it would go quicker.

After all, allegedly they want to get rid of Hamas even more badly than Israel does, right?

But it's just been too hard for the last sixteen years.  Otherwise they totally would have.  But it's just so difficult.  So why even try.

Much more difficult than, say, the French Resistance.  What are the Nazis compared to the might of Hamas?

And it's not like an anti-Hamas resistance movement would be able to get support from, say, Israel or America or the EU or, heck, Fatah.  Or ISIS, who also hate Hamas and declared war on them six years ago.

The truth is that even the Gazans who oppose Hamas are more upset about the decline of living conditions under Hamas rule than they are about Hamas's obsession with killing Jewish civilians (which they by-and-large support).  That anti-Hamas protest I mentioned earlier this year?  It was because Qatar used to pay a monthly stipend to Gazan families, and Hamas started taxing that stipend so they could send the money back to Qatar for Ismail Haniyeh to use on more tributes to his Telegram findomme.  That's what the Gazans were upset about -- not the missile attacks, not the suicide bombings, not the kidnappings.

If Hamas were able to competently administer Gaza but otherwise maintain their fanatical extremist ideology and obsession with killing innocent Jews at all costs, I'd be willing to bet their approvals would be 80-90%.

The French Resistance had support from the allies. Its also important to note, Netanyahu's government secretly supported Hamas. Nice little excuse to avoid two state negotiations.

The fact that Fatah exists as a rival political group shows that not all Palestinians support violence. Fatah and Gaza had a literal civil war in 2006.

Like I said, the average person in Gaza doesn't care for Hamas. Hamas closed movie theaters and concerts. Like I said, the average person doesn't outright oppose Hamas. Not caring for someone isn't an excuse to rise up in violence. Rise up against a Iran armed proxy.

I have family in the Fatah controlled West Bank. NO ONE wants Hamas to take over the West Bank. People enjoy their movies and concerts and not having to wear hajib

The way I look at it, there's no unified Palestinian political grouping. There's four segments, to oversimplify a bit. 1) Hamas 2) Fatah/PA govt 3) non-Hamas non-Fatah 4) misc
if you broaden it to include Arab Israelis you could add them as a fifth grouping.

[jaichind]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/10/business/israel-economy-gaza-war.html

"How the War With Hamas Has Damaged Israel’s Tech Firms and Economy"

As a result, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development said, the war will cause a “temporary but pronounced slowdown” of Israel’s economy. It had grown about 3 percent before the Oct. 7 attacks and is now expected to slow to 1.5 percent this year. Weighing on the economy are labor shortages, lower consumer and business confidence, and higher inflation.

[Pres Mike]

I dont think the people of Gaza are capable of overthrowing Hamas but it is interesting that protests are a regular occurrence in Iran despite heavy usage of executions but not in Gaza.

Because anger towards Israel is MUCH stronger than Hamas

The Israeli operation is to destroy Hamas.  It was universally recognized within about five seconds of the 10/7 news breaking that this would be Israel's objective.  Sorry it's taking longer than you expected.  Maybe if the Gazans were willing to help Israel out it would go quicker.

After all, allegedly they want to get rid of Hamas even more badly than Israel does, right?

But it's just been too hard for the last sixteen years.  Otherwise they totally would have.  But it's just so difficult.  So why even try.

Much more difficult than, say, the French Resistance.  What are the Nazis compared to the might of Hamas?

And it's not like an anti-Hamas resistance movement would be able to get support from, say, Israel or America or the EU or, heck, Fatah.  Or ISIS, who also hate Hamas and declared war on them six years ago.

The truth is that even the Gazans who oppose Hamas are more upset about the decline of living conditions under Hamas rule than they are about Hamas's obsession with killing Jewish civilians (which they by-and-large support).  That anti-Hamas protest I mentioned earlier this year?  It was because Qatar used to pay a monthly stipend to Gazan families, and Hamas started taxing that stipend so they could send the money back to Qatar for Ismail Haniyeh to use on more tributes to his Telegram findomme.  That's what the Gazans were upset about -- not the missile attacks, not the suicide bombings, not the kidnappings.

If Hamas were able to competently administer Gaza but otherwise maintain their fanatical extremist ideology and obsession with killing innocent Jews at all costs, I'd be willing to bet their approvals would be 80-90%.

The French Resistance had support from the allies. Its also important to note, Netanyahu's government secretly supported Hamas. Nice little excuse to avoid two state negotiations.

The fact that Fatah exists as a rival political group shows that not all Palestinians support violence. Fatah and Gaza had a literal civil war in 2006.

Like I said, the average person in Gaza doesn't care for Hamas. Hamas closed movie theaters and concerts. Like I said, the average person doesn't outright oppose Hamas. Not caring for someone isn't an excuse to rise up in violence. Rise up against a Iran armed proxy.

I have family in the Fatah controlled West Bank. NO ONE wants Hamas to take over the West Bank. People enjoy their movies and concerts and not having to wear hajib

The way I look at it, there's no unified Palestinian political grouping. There's four segments, to oversimplify a bit. 1) Hamas 2) Fatah/PA govt 3) non-Hamas non-Fatah 4) misc
if you broaden it to include Arab Israelis you could add them as a fifth grouping.

Which is the norm in most Middle Eastern nations

-Moderates who support the West. Think the governments of Jordan, Morocco, Tunisia (all major US allies)
-Islamicist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, Hamas (note that some are Sunni and Shia)
-Misc