Israel-Gaza war

[pppolitics]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

[Vosem]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

[pppolitics]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

[Vosem]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Israel's support does not come in spite of its conduct during periods of warfare, but because of it.

[pppolitics]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

[Vosem]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel, not whether to do so; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

[pppolitics]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

Wrong again.

The full effect has yet to be felt.

Support for Israel is cratering among young voters and a generational turnover is coming.

[Vosem]

Like, pppolitics, I think you're fundamentally wrong about what war is for, but even by your own demented standards this is either the greatest victory for Israel ever or the second after 1948, when it had strong support from a trifecta of the US/USSR/Western Europe. (That's tough to compare to having the US/India/EU/Gulf states today.)

[pppolitics]

Like, pppolitics, I think you're fundamentally wrong about what war is for, but even by your own demented standards this is either the greatest victory for Israel ever or the second after 1948, when it had strong support from a trifecta of the US/USSR/Western Europe. (That's tough to compare to having the US/India/EU/Gulf states today.)

Even some people in Israel are now concern

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-779114

[Vosem]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

Wrong again.

The full effect has yet to be felt.

Support for Israel is cratering among young voters and a generational turnover is coming.

Nah. This happened in Europe; everywhere that you get activist pro-Palestinianism they successfully alienate everybody by being rioters and hooligans. (You also have a very strong pattern, including among the youth, where those who pay attention to the news most and care the most are the most pro-Israel.)

"We will win because of our support among the youth" is loserspeak, and always has been. Basically on par with "the only poll that matters is on Election Day".

(Also, you never responded to my claim in the other thread that the reason that the elderly are so pro-Israel is a selection effect, where those who are pro-Palestine are just so full of hatred that they drop dead early in life. I think this theory, where pro-Palestinian youth just won't make it to any generational turnovers, has a lot going for it.)

Haven't you had like three of these threads deleted/merged already today? Yeesh.

Anyway, still irrelevant.

It's relevant because Biden finally said the quiet part out loud: that Israel is losing support over indiscriminate bombing and that Israel opposes the two-state solution.

But, like, from who? Biden says he loves Netanyahu. Other countries keep pressuring Israel to keep the campaign going and to lobby for it in international organizations. Polls in the United States and western Europe keep showing that people who pay attention to the news are strongly supportive of the campaign. Whose support is being lost?

https://twitter.com/asmamk/status/1734685991515181098

I said, "Bibi, I love you, but I don't agree with a damn thing you have to say." (Laughter.) That remains the case.

Many of you have heard me say over the years: were there not an Israel, we'd have to invent one. We'd have to invent one.

Israel's security can rest on the United States, but right now it has more than the United States. It has the European Union...it has most of the world supporting it. But they're starting to lose that support, by the indiscriminate bombing that takes place.

Would legitimately be curious to hear whose support Biden is concerned about. He admits they have "most of the world"! Also, saying that he "loves" Bibi is just a hilarious position.

Not surprisingly, old people, who are the group most supportive if Israel, have more time on their hands.

You know, I have two theories for why old people are so much more supportive of Israel, and I'd like you to review them and see which one you agree with:

(1) Pretty much all polls have shown those who pay more attention to the news are likelier to support Israel, and old people pay more attention to the news than young people. As young people age and pay more attention to the news, they'll come to support Israel more, or else tune out politics entirely.

(2) This one occurred to me today. Obviously, people who don't support Israel in this conflict are mentally and emotionally sick. But to what extent are they also physically sick?

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1734566904629428292

(Per community notes apparently the name of this individual was misspelled, but everything else is accurate.)

Maybe the current generation of old people were also once relatively supportive of Palestine, but the ones who didn't support things like the Israeli campaign were just so full of hatred that they keeled over and died. Thus, the current generation will become more pro-Israel (keep in mind it's actually already more pro-Israel than you think) through a selection effect, where only those who are anti-Palestine are healthy enough to make it to old age.

Which of these do you think is the likelier option?

The gentleman in that tweet ended up dying, which makes sense given the state of his mental health. Pro-Palestinian people can't afford many more losses like this -- after all, there aren't so many of them.

[pppolitics]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

Wrong again.

The full effect has yet to be felt.

Support for Israel is cratering among young voters and a generational turnover is coming.

Nah. This happened in Europe; everywhere that you get activist pro-Palestinianism they successfully alienate everybody by being rioters and hooligans. (You also have a very strong pattern, including among the youth, where those who pay attention to the news most and care the most are the most pro-Israel.)

"We will win because of our support among the youth" is loserspeak, and always has been. Basically on par with "the only poll that matters is on Election Day".

(Also, you never responded to my claim in the other thread that the reason that the elderly are so pro-Israel is a selection effect, where those who are pro-Palestine are just so full of hatred that they drop dead early in life. I think this theory, where pro-Palestinian youth just won't make it to any generational turnovers, has a lot going for it.)

Israel's biggest supporters are Biden's age.

That must be very assuring.

[Vosem]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

Wrong again.

The full effect has yet to be felt.

Support for Israel is cratering among young voters and a generational turnover is coming.

Nah. This happened in Europe; everywhere that you get activist pro-Palestinianism they successfully alienate everybody by being rioters and hooligans. (You also have a very strong pattern, including among the youth, where those who pay attention to the news most and care the most are the most pro-Israel.)

"We will win because of our support among the youth" is loserspeak, and always has been. Basically on par with "the only poll that matters is on Election Day".

(Also, you never responded to my claim in the other thread that the reason that the elderly are so pro-Israel is a selection effect, where those who are pro-Palestine are just so full of hatred that they drop dead early in life. I think this theory, where pro-Palestinian youth just won't make it to any generational turnovers, has a lot going for it.)

Israel's biggest supporters are Biden's age.

That must be very assuring.

No? I've already shown you the polls where Democratic-leaning 18-29-year-olds support Israel. This is the usual finding.

Israel's supporters will make it to Biden's age, which I think is what creates the skew, but Palestine's supporters are unlikely to. Of course those who have practiced good mental health are likelier to still be around when they are 80.

[Vosem]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

Wrong again.

The full effect has yet to be felt.

Support for Israel is cratering among young voters and a generational turnover is coming.

Nah. This happened in Europe; everywhere that you get activist pro-Palestinianism they successfully alienate everybody by being rioters and hooligans. (You also have a very strong pattern, including among the youth, where those who pay attention to the news most and care the most are the most pro-Israel.)

"We will win because of our support among the youth" is loserspeak, and always has been. Basically on par with "the only poll that matters is on Election Day".

(Also, you never responded to my claim in the other thread that the reason that the elderly are so pro-Israel is a selection effect, where those who are pro-Palestine are just so full of hatred that they drop dead early in life. I think this theory, where pro-Palestinian youth just won't make it to any generational turnovers, has a lot going for it.)

Israel's biggest supporters are Biden's age.

That must be very assuring.

No? I've already shown you the polls where Democratic-leaning 18-29-year-olds support Israel. (I went to a very left-wing college where we held a vote, every year, on whether to divest from Israel, and four consecutive times Israel won, each time by a larger amount.) This is the usual finding.

Israel's supporters will make it to Biden's age, which I think is what creates the skew, but Palestine's supporters are unlikely to. Of course those who have practiced good mental health are likelier to still be around when they are 80.

[Vosem]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

Wrong again.

The full effect has yet to be felt.

Support for Israel is cratering among young voters and a generational turnover is coming.

Nah. This happened in Europe; everywhere that you get activist pro-Palestinianism they successfully alienate everybody by being rioters and hooligans. (You also have a very strong pattern, including among the youth, where those who pay attention to the news most and care the most are the most pro-Israel.)

"We will win because of our support among the youth" is loserspeak, and always has been. Basically on par with "the only poll that matters is on Election Day".

(Also, you never responded to my claim in the other thread that the reason that the elderly are so pro-Israel is a selection effect, where those who are pro-Palestine are just so full of hatred that they drop dead early in life. I think this theory, where pro-Palestinian youth just won't make it to any generational turnovers, has a lot going for it.)

Israel's biggest supporters are Biden's age.

That must be very assuring.

No? I've already shown you the polls where Democratic-leaning 18-29-year-olds support Israel. (I went to a decently left-wing university -- Ohio State -- where we held a vote, every year, on whether to divest from Israel, and four consecutive times Israel won, each time by a larger amount.) This is the usual finding.

Israel's supporters will make it to Biden's age, which I think is what creates the skew, but Palestine's supporters are unlikely to. Of course those who have practiced good mental health are likelier to still be around when they are 80.

[pppolitics]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

Wrong again.

The full effect has yet to be felt.

Support for Israel is cratering among young voters and a generational turnover is coming.

Nah. This happened in Europe; everywhere that you get activist pro-Palestinianism they successfully alienate everybody by being rioters and hooligans. (You also have a very strong pattern, including among the youth, where those who pay attention to the news most and care the most are the most pro-Israel.)

"We will win because of our support among the youth" is loserspeak, and always has been. Basically on par with "the only poll that matters is on Election Day".

(Also, you never responded to my claim in the other thread that the reason that the elderly are so pro-Israel is a selection effect, where those who are pro-Palestine are just so full of hatred that they drop dead early in life. I think this theory, where pro-Palestinian youth just won't make it to any generational turnovers, has a lot going for it.)

Israel's biggest supporters are Biden's age.

That must be very assuring.

No? I've already shown you the polls where Democratic-leaning 18-29-year-olds support Israel. This is the usual finding.

Israel's supporters will make it to Biden's age, which I think is what creates the skew, but Palestine's supporters are unlikely to. Of course those who have practiced good mental health are likelier to still be around when they are 80.

Wow, those are some incredible mental gymnastics.

[Vosem]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

Wrong again.

The full effect has yet to be felt.

Support for Israel is cratering among young voters and a generational turnover is coming.

Nah. This happened in Europe; everywhere that you get activist pro-Palestinianism they successfully alienate everybody by being rioters and hooligans. (You also have a very strong pattern, including among the youth, where those who pay attention to the news most and care the most are the most pro-Israel.)

"We will win because of our support among the youth" is loserspeak, and always has been. Basically on par with "the only poll that matters is on Election Day".

(Also, you never responded to my claim in the other thread that the reason that the elderly are so pro-Israel is a selection effect, where those who are pro-Palestine are just so full of hatred that they drop dead early in life. I think this theory, where pro-Palestinian youth just won't make it to any generational turnovers, has a lot going for it.)

Israel's biggest supporters are Biden's age.

That must be very assuring.

No? I've already shown you the polls where Democratic-leaning 18-29-year-olds support Israel. This is the usual finding.

Israel's supporters will make it to Biden's age, which I think is what creates the skew, but Palestine's supporters are unlikely to. Of course those who have practiced good mental health are likelier to still be around when they are 80.

Wow, those are some incredible mental gymnastics.

What's your explanation for the difference, and Palestine's supporters dropping dead while performing their activism?

(I mean, even more generally, who do you think should be bombing Gaza if Israel doesn't? You haven't answered this question.)

[pppolitics]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

Wrong again.

The full effect has yet to be felt.

Support for Israel is cratering among young voters and a generational turnover is coming.

Nah. This happened in Europe; everywhere that you get activist pro-Palestinianism they successfully alienate everybody by being rioters and hooligans. (You also have a very strong pattern, including among the youth, where those who pay attention to the news most and care the most are the most pro-Israel.)

"We will win because of our support among the youth" is loserspeak, and always has been. Basically on par with "the only poll that matters is on Election Day".

(Also, you never responded to my claim in the other thread that the reason that the elderly are so pro-Israel is a selection effect, where those who are pro-Palestine are just so full of hatred that they drop dead early in life. I think this theory, where pro-Palestinian youth just won't make it to any generational turnovers, has a lot going for it.)

Israel's biggest supporters are Biden's age.

That must be very assuring.

No? I've already shown you the polls where Democratic-leaning 18-29-year-olds support Israel. This is the usual finding.

Israel's supporters will make it to Biden's age, which I think is what creates the skew, but Palestine's supporters are unlikely to. Of course those who have practiced good mental health are likelier to still be around when they are 80.

Wow, those are some incredible mental gymnastics.

What's your explanation for the difference, and Palestine's supporters dropping dead while performing their activism?

(I mean, even more generally, who do you think should be bombing Gaza if Israel doesn't? You haven't answered this question.)

You deserve two gold medals for your mental gymnastics.

[Vosem]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

Wrong again.

The full effect has yet to be felt.

Support for Israel is cratering among young voters and a generational turnover is coming.

Nah. This happened in Europe; everywhere that you get activist pro-Palestinianism they successfully alienate everybody by being rioters and hooligans. (You also have a very strong pattern, including among the youth, where those who pay attention to the news most and care the most are the most pro-Israel.)

"We will win because of our support among the youth" is loserspeak, and always has been. Basically on par with "the only poll that matters is on Election Day".

(Also, you never responded to my claim in the other thread that the reason that the elderly are so pro-Israel is a selection effect, where those who are pro-Palestine are just so full of hatred that they drop dead early in life. I think this theory, where pro-Palestinian youth just won't make it to any generational turnovers, has a lot going for it.)

Israel's biggest supporters are Biden's age.

That must be very assuring.

No? I've already shown you the polls where Democratic-leaning 18-29-year-olds support Israel. This is the usual finding.

Israel's supporters will make it to Biden's age, which I think is what creates the skew, but Palestine's supporters are unlikely to. Of course those who have practiced good mental health are likelier to still be around when they are 80.

Wow, those are some incredible mental gymnastics.

What's your explanation for the difference, and Palestine's supporters dropping dead while performing their activism?

(I mean, even more generally, who do you think should be bombing Gaza if Israel doesn't? You haven't answered this question.)

You deserve two gold medals for your mental gymnastics.

Can I trade them for two more bombs dropped on Gaza?

(Or, better yet, two more once-anti-Israel countries taking Israel's side! At this rate we're going to run out of countries soon, folks. Hopefully Palestine itself won't be last.)

[pppolitics]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

But how has it lost? Hamas's objective is its destruction. With the full force of world opinion on Israel's side, including for once literally Arab governments, Israel seems stronger than ever. As with every time this conflict comes up, there is no political movement quite as adept as Palestinian liberationism at alienating its own allies.

I think you're missing that random countries everywhere are picking leaders based on who is most pro-Israel and that literally no one (except North Yemen, which is just successfully negatively polarizing its enemies into pro-Israel sentiment) is taking the opposing position. Even more broadly, I think among your criticisms of the state you miss that Israel derives support around the world from the fact that it conducts wars against operations like Hamas. This is why support for Israel tends to rise in periods of warfare.

Hamas knows that it is far too weak to defeat Israel militarily.

Its objective all along was to isolate Israel.

But it failed. European countries have criminalized pro-Palestinian demonstrations; the US is debating how much more military aid to give Israel; multiple countries have elected new pro-Israel leaders; Arab countries have shot down Houthi missiles and pressured Israel to continue behind the scenes.

There's never been more support for Israel around the world.

Wrong again.

The full effect has yet to be felt.

Support for Israel is cratering among young voters and a generational turnover is coming.

Nah. This happened in Europe; everywhere that you get activist pro-Palestinianism they successfully alienate everybody by being rioters and hooligans. (You also have a very strong pattern, including among the youth, where those who pay attention to the news most and care the most are the most pro-Israel.)

"We will win because of our support among the youth" is loserspeak, and always has been. Basically on par with "the only poll that matters is on Election Day".

(Also, you never responded to my claim in the other thread that the reason that the elderly are so pro-Israel is a selection effect, where those who are pro-Palestine are just so full of hatred that they drop dead early in life. I think this theory, where pro-Palestinian youth just won't make it to any generational turnovers, has a lot going for it.)

Israel's biggest supporters are Biden's age.

That must be very assuring.

No? I've already shown you the polls where Democratic-leaning 18-29-year-olds support Israel. This is the usual finding.

Israel's supporters will make it to Biden's age, which I think is what creates the skew, but Palestine's supporters are unlikely to. Of course those who have practiced good mental health are likelier to still be around when they are 80.

Wow, those are some incredible mental gymnastics.

What's your explanation for the difference, and Palestine's supporters dropping dead while performing their activism?

(I mean, even more generally, who do you think should be bombing Gaza if Israel doesn't? You haven't answered this question.)

You deserve two gold medals for your mental gymnastics.

Can I trade them for two more bombs dropped on Gaza?

No, but you can sell them and donate the proceedings to Joe Biden's campaign.

[super6646]

Glad this thread has turned into a bickering argument between 2 ppl. You two should both do something that starts with an f and has 4 letters, it would ease a lot of the tension here.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

This is a good day to be a popcorn seller.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Benjamin Netanyahu

Merry Christmas

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1RwkWWNtT2/

[patzer]

Benjamin Netanyahu

Merry Christmas

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1RwkWWNtT2/

He may be corrupt but at least he's a good speaker.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

Luckily, Israel isn’t committing genocide, so no worries on that front. 

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

1) This doesn’t even make sense on its own terms.  Even if Israel was deliberately targeting civilians as opposed to fighting a war against an enemy whose strategy is based around aggressively working to maximize civilian casualties among its own people as much as possible, how would that save face?  

2) It’s pretty clear that you either don’t know or (more likely don’t care) what Hamas’ goals were here and are just tying yourself in knots trying to rationalize your weird fantasy about some imaginary Hamas victory.  We actually know what Hamas’ goals were here and the extend to which they succeeded or failed is very much a mixed bag:

A) From a military standpoint, by Hamas’ own admission, their primary goal was to trigger a genuine bona fide war (as opposed to just a flare up, something that has not occurred in Israel during millennials’ or zoomers’ lifetimes) and draw in far stronger potential allies to turn it into a broad regional war against Israel by bringing in order Hezbollah -> Lebanon proper -> Syria -> Iran into the conflict like dominoes.  

On the one hand, Hamas got their war.  On the other hand, by their own admission, they were banking on at minimum Hezbollah and ideally Iran joining the war (Hezbollah alone being infinitely stronger than Hamas militarily; even if Hamas constitutes a de facto army, the difference in strength is night and day).  And Israel almost got baited into truly going to war with Hezbollah due to bad intelligence.  Fortunately, in a major Biden win, the US pressured Netanyahu to hold off and it became clear Hezbollah was not planning some sort of surprise invasion of north Israel.  IIRC at the time, Hamas publicly expressed vocal disappointment and even low key alarm that Hezbollah decided to largely sit this one out.  

Additionally, like Syria, Iran was far too smart to get involved because they know that in a true war, Israel could wipe them out as easily as you or I might swat a fly if push truly came to shove.  It wouldn’t be a so-called video game war (at least against Iran, Syria would be more like the pre-occupation US invasion of Iraq when we were just fighting Saddam’s army), but the winner would never have been remotely in doubt.  And that’s assuming Israel got no foreign aid whatsoever, which is unlikely to say the least.  Moreover, while Iran and especially Syria have invested in Hezbollah in a big way, they don’t and never have cared about or even particularly liked the Palestinians except to the extent they can use them as a proxy to screw with Israel without risking serious military retaliation.  In terms of creating a broader regional war, this has all been a disastrous failure for Hamas.  

B) To thoroughly humiliate Netanyahu and the Israeli intelligence establishment.  Hamas unambiguously succeeded at this on October 7.  Anyone denying this is deluding themselves.  It was a wild success for Hamas on that front.  

C) To win a war of attrition with Israel by trading hostages for a ceasefire while using Israel’s historic reluctance to risk high civilian casualties against them.  This sort of thing has traditionally been a very successful strategy for Hamas with Israel doing things like trading over a thousand of high-level prisoners (including Yahya Sinwar) for one low-ranking soldier who was taken hostage.  While it’s too early to say how big a hit Hamas will take from this (so far Israel has only killed three of the top guys in Hamas and none of those were genuine big names, but the mid-tier leadership has been absolutely decimated), if Israel starts taking out folks like the Sinwar brothers, Dief, Issa, Mashel, and Hamiyah then you may see Hamas start collapsing albeit almost certainly replaced by a new group down the road.  

I think so far Isreal’s progress in decimating Hamas’ leadership has been unimpressive relative to expectations despite strong on the ground in terms of occupying land.  However, for better or worse, Netanyahu has clearly opted to abandon Israel’s historic strategy of hyper-targeted strikes and passing up chances to hit targets unless civilian collateral could be minimized.  So that was a tactical miscalculation by Hamas.

D) Hamas sought to rally Palestinians around it and defuse rising anger at its dismal failure to provide even basic municipal services in Gaza.  I think it certainly distracted Palestinians from that issue, but whether Palestinian civilians blame Israel and Hamas for the present situation or just Israel, I don’t know enough to say.

[pppolitics]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

Luckily, Israel isn’t committing genocide, so no worries on that front. 

Even Joe Biden, a self-proclaimed Zionist, admitted that Israel is indiscriminately bombing Gaza.