Israel-Gaza war
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Author Topic: Israel-Gaza war  (Read 237073 times)
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« Reply #4450 on: December 12, 2023, 05:32:26 PM »
« edited: December 12, 2023, 05:35:35 PM by FT-02 Senator A.F.E. 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦 »

No end in sight?  Fighting in Gaza City has quieted down considerably and Israel should have Khan Yunis completely occupied within the next week.  They still need to root out Hamas from the Jabalia "refugee camp" and destroy the compounds in the south, but total Israeli victory looks like an inevitability at this point since none of the regional powers decided to get involved, and I predict that by mid-February we'll be primarily discussing the future administration of Gaza rather than violent conflict.  There's your "end."

You would have thought all these people who were calling for a ceasefire would be happy groups of Hamas are ceasing firing, but they seem so sad about it...

I think all of us know you're being deliberately obtuse for the sake of it, but anyways why should anyone be happy with the fact that 90% of the Gaza strip has been dislocated? Is it because they actually are Hamas supporters or they actually give a damn about the conditions of the people suffering from the conflict?
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pppolitics
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« Reply #4451 on: December 12, 2023, 05:40:55 PM »

It's long overdue that we stop pretending that Israel is a democratic state in a war against Hamas as opposed to an apartheid state in a war against the Palestinians.
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« Reply #4452 on: December 12, 2023, 05:49:49 PM »

No, I don't think this is true. Most simply, the city can be leveled with conventional bombing and the tunnels flooded without any IDF casualties at all, or very few; breaking things is much easier than making them. Hamas has not demonstrated an ability to actually advance against an IDF which is actually there, and when a single rocket out of hundreds actually claims any lives in Israel this is accorded a victory.

The IDF has been preparing and openly discussing how difficult and grueling a ground campaign through Gaza will be but apparently they were just too dumb to realize that they just had to bomb everything and flood the tunnels.



"Bomb everything and flood the tunnels" was always the plan, it was always basically guaranteed to work, and it's the least surprising thing ever that it did. You could've forecasted the general progression of the war quite accurately by reading what I had to say and disregarding 70% of the clowns here.
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« Reply #4453 on: December 12, 2023, 05:59:04 PM »

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GoTfan
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« Reply #4454 on: December 12, 2023, 06:20:58 PM »

No, I don't think this is true. Most simply, the city can be leveled with conventional bombing and the tunnels flooded without any IDF casualties at all, or very few; breaking things is much easier than making them. Hamas has not demonstrated an ability to actually advance against an IDF which is actually there, and when a single rocket out of hundreds actually claims any lives in Israel this is accorded a victory.

The IDF has been preparing and openly discussing how difficult and grueling a ground campaign through Gaza will be but apparently they were just too dumb to realize that they just had to bomb everything and flood the tunnels.



"Bomb everything and flood the tunnels" was always the plan, it was always basically guaranteed to work, and it's the least surprising thing ever that it did. You could've forecasted the general progression of the war quite accurately by reading what I had to say and disregarding 70% of the clowns here.

"We can't kill them all with bombs so we'll just try and drown every Palestinian we find."

That's just base cruelty. The end goal here for Netanyahu is not to wipe out Hamas; it's to wipe out Palestinians.
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Vosem
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« Reply #4455 on: December 12, 2023, 06:28:34 PM »

No, I don't think this is true. Most simply, the city can be leveled with conventional bombing and the tunnels flooded without any IDF casualties at all, or very few; breaking things is much easier than making them. Hamas has not demonstrated an ability to actually advance against an IDF which is actually there, and when a single rocket out of hundreds actually claims any lives in Israel this is accorded a victory.

The IDF has been preparing and openly discussing how difficult and grueling a ground campaign through Gaza will be but apparently they were just too dumb to realize that they just had to bomb everything and flood the tunnels.



"Bomb everything and flood the tunnels" was always the plan, it was always basically guaranteed to work, and it's the least surprising thing ever that it did. You could've forecasted the general progression of the war quite accurately by reading what I had to say and disregarding 70% of the clowns here.

"We can't kill them all with bombs so we'll just try and drown every Palestinian we find."

That's just base cruelty. The end goal here for Netanyahu is not to wipe out Hamas; it's to wipe out Palestinians.

...no? The end goal is to remove Hamas from power. Hamas can end it whenever they want by leaving power, unconditionally surrendering, and agreeing to carry out the policies of the Israeli state. (This might start with agreeing to help reform the Palestinian education system, so polling results like the ones OSR keeps citing can be made a thing of the past. Like in post-Nazi Germany, this can mean celebrating the Israeli victory over them as an important triumph conducted on behalf of the Palestinian people, and maintaining monuments to the IDF and to those Palestinians who collaborated with them. It means agreeing to suppress organizations that are not on board with this agenda, which would most likely include the UNRWA. I can keep going but I think this is sufficient to give you the idea.)
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Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!
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« Reply #4456 on: December 12, 2023, 07:03:23 PM »
« Edited: December 12, 2023, 07:08:34 PM by Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P! »

No, I don't think this is true. Most simply, the city can be leveled with conventional bombing and the tunnels flooded without any IDF casualties at all, or very few; breaking things is much easier than making them. Hamas has not demonstrated an ability to actually advance against an IDF which is actually there, and when a single rocket out of hundreds actually claims any lives in Israel this is accorded a victory.

The IDF has been preparing and openly discussing how difficult and grueling a ground campaign through Gaza will be but apparently they were just too dumb to realize that they just had to bomb everything and flood the tunnels.



"Bomb everything and flood the tunnels" was always the plan, it was always basically guaranteed to work, and it's the least surprising thing ever that it did. You could've forecasted the general progression of the war quite accurately by reading what I had to say and disregarding 70% of the clowns here.

This is purely performative unless you think the IDF's strategy to rescue the hostages is to drown them. As they've admitted elsewhere, they're testing the effectiveness of flooding against tunnels with no hostages (ie. empty tunnels).

Also, to even get to the point where they were in a position to flood tunnels the IDF has sustained thousands of casualties. For comparison, that means the price to (not actually) defeat Hamas is already higher than the price to beat all of the Arab states in 1967. The bombs and water have had less to do with any progress made than the IDF discovering the Putinesque strategy of covering up losses. If they're willing to continue taking such losses for weeks if not months then they may well triumph over the strongest gang in Israel's prison but that isn't a sign of any great strategy on their part. It would seem I was right to predict a "difficult and grueling campaign" and you weren't so right about "very few casualties"

While I'm on the topic, I'll point out that this is what Israeli General Yitzhak Brick, one of the few to predict the Oct 7 disaster, had to say about the state of the IDF:

Quote
“We are witnessing an army whose culture of lying and deception is getting stronger and broader, and in the last two years the IDF has reached new heights [of corruption] we have never known, where some commanders are thinking about their next job and how to create an image of a high quality unit even if this is not the truth.

The result is very frustrating, severe and sad, the good ones leave the army. Some of those who remain in the IDF are the ones who follow suit, who are afraid to express their position and shy away, unfortunately this part is getting larger over time.

We have reached an unimaginable situation that reminds me of the conduct of the Arabs in past wars against us. The lies of the field ranks reporting to their superiors about success in the field while they failed in the battle against us, distorted the picture in the eyes of their commanders, and their decisions were made based on unreliable and distorted information, which worked perfectly in our favor. I did not believe that the Israeli army would reach the levels of lying as they were in the Arab armies which contributed greatly to their defeat against us. Have the tables turned?

I recall the IDF claiming a little over a week ago that they'd have all of northern Gaza totally cleared within a week. A week later and they've made minimal progress in the north despite it being completely surrounded. In fact, Hamas was somehow able to launch rockets from northern Gaza in sufficient quantity to break through the Iron Dome and hit Tel Aviv. Is it a coincidence that the IDF suddenly decided to start kidnapping civilians for photo-ops just in time to cover up their failure?
And yes, it's since been confirmed that those were random civilians kidnapped by the IDF, not "mass surrendering Hamas fighters".

"Biden should potentially damn the world to save our enemies" is, shockingly, a political non-starter despite the screeching of the Judenhass mobs cosplaying 1933 Berlin in our cities. If Biden actually wants to boost his electoral prospects, he would send in the troops and start charging people with felony riot as a hate crime.

The country currently emulating 1938 Germany is the one shielded by Joe Biden







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GoTfan
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« Reply #4457 on: December 12, 2023, 08:28:54 PM »

No, I don't think this is true. Most simply, the city can be leveled with conventional bombing and the tunnels flooded without any IDF casualties at all, or very few; breaking things is much easier than making them. Hamas has not demonstrated an ability to actually advance against an IDF which is actually there, and when a single rocket out of hundreds actually claims any lives in Israel this is accorded a victory.

The IDF has been preparing and openly discussing how difficult and grueling a ground campaign through Gaza will be but apparently they were just too dumb to realize that they just had to bomb everything and flood the tunnels.



"Bomb everything and flood the tunnels" was always the plan, it was always basically guaranteed to work, and it's the least surprising thing ever that it did. You could've forecasted the general progression of the war quite accurately by reading what I had to say and disregarding 70% of the clowns here.

"We can't kill them all with bombs so we'll just try and drown every Palestinian we find."

That's just base cruelty. The end goal here for Netanyahu is not to wipe out Hamas; it's to wipe out Palestinians.

...no? The end goal is to remove Hamas from power. Hamas can end it whenever they want by leaving power, unconditionally surrendering, and agreeing to carry out the policies of the Israeli state. (This might start with agreeing to help reform the Palestinian education system, so polling results like the ones OSR keeps citing can be made a thing of the past. Like in post-Nazi Germany, this can mean celebrating the Israeli victory over them as an important triumph conducted on behalf of the Palestinian people, and maintaining monuments to the IDF and to those Palestinians who collaborated with them. It means agreeing to suppress organizations that are not on board with this agenda, which would most likely include the UNRWA. I can keep going but I think this is sufficient to give you the idea.)

Well, then you might want to tell Netanyahu that. His goal, from what I can see, is to use this as an excuse to kill as many Palestinians as he can.
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #4458 on: December 12, 2023, 10:43:39 PM »

No, I don't think this is true. Most simply, the city can be leveled with conventional bombing and the tunnels flooded without any IDF casualties at all, or very few; breaking things is much easier than making them. Hamas has not demonstrated an ability to actually advance against an IDF which is actually there, and when a single rocket out of hundreds actually claims any lives in Israel this is accorded a victory.

The IDF has been preparing and openly discussing how difficult and grueling a ground campaign through Gaza will be but apparently they were just too dumb to realize that they just had to bomb everything and flood the tunnels.



"Bomb everything and flood the tunnels" was always the plan, it was always basically guaranteed to work, and it's the least surprising thing ever that it did. You could've forecasted the general progression of the war quite accurately by reading what I had to say and disregarding 70% of the clowns here.

This is purely performative unless you think the IDF's strategy to rescue the hostages is to drown them. As they've admitted elsewhere, they're testing the effectiveness of flooding against tunnels with no hostages (ie. empty tunnels).

Also, to even get to the point where they were in a position to flood tunnels the IDF has sustained thousands of casualties. For comparison, that means the price to (not actually) defeat Hamas is already higher than the price to beat all of the Arab states in 1967. The bombs and water have had less to do with any progress made than the IDF discovering the Putinesque strategy of covering up losses. If they're willing to continue taking such losses for weeks if not months then they may well triumph over the strongest gang in Israel's prison but that isn't a sign of any great strategy on their part. It would seem I was right to predict a "difficult and grueling campaign" and you weren't so right about "very few casualties"

While I'm on the topic, I'll point out that this is what Israeli General Yitzhak Brick, one of the few to predict the Oct 7 disaster, had to say about the state of the IDF:

Quote
“We are witnessing an army whose culture of lying and deception is getting stronger and broader, and in the last two years the IDF has reached new heights [of corruption] we have never known, where some commanders are thinking about their next job and how to create an image of a high quality unit even if this is not the truth.

The result is very frustrating, severe and sad, the good ones leave the army. Some of those who remain in the IDF are the ones who follow suit, who are afraid to express their position and shy away, unfortunately this part is getting larger over time.

We have reached an unimaginable situation that reminds me of the conduct of the Arabs in past wars against us. The lies of the field ranks reporting to their superiors about success in the field while they failed in the battle against us, distorted the picture in the eyes of their commanders, and their decisions were made based on unreliable and distorted information, which worked perfectly in our favor. I did not believe that the Israeli army would reach the levels of lying as they were in the Arab armies which contributed greatly to their defeat against us. Have the tables turned?


Not to challenge one of the main points you were making in this post, but I did choose to clip some of the less relevant items, and bold the more specific item, but left your quote in from General Yitzhak Brick, since without understanding the context (no link?) may or may not be pertinent.


1.) Thus far Israeli total military casualties since 10/7/23 are higher than that experienced during the 1967 War.

These are the Israeli Military casualty numbers from the 1967 Arab Israeli War, according to Wikipedia based upon official Israeli Government sources:

Israeli Military Deaths: 776
Israeli Civilian Deaths:   20
Israeli Military / Civilian Wounded: 4,517

2.) The Clash Report numbers, of current Israeli military casualties from the 2023 Gaza War, which may or may not match current IDF numbers, which are constantly being updated:

Israeli Military Deaths (Since 10/7/23): 421
Israeli Military Deaths (Since Gaza Operation): 97
Israeli Military Wounded: ~5,000

3.) The overwhelmingly majority of current Israeli Military fatalities occurred as a direct result of one of the most elite HAMAS brigades deliberately targeting Israeli Military facilities on 10/7/23, of which the vast majority of Hamas fighters were eliminated.

It is unclear how many Israeli soldiers were injured by Hamas activities prior to the Israeli operation into Gaza.

4.) There are also some Israeli soldiers KIA and WIA post 10/7/23 activities in along the border region in Lebanon, and also in the West Bank, although these numbers are relatively small compared to Israeli 10/7/23+ casualties.

5.) As I have long posited on this very thread, a very large part of the reason for the massive levels of Palestinian Civilian Casualties in Gaza, are a direct result of the Israeli Military Doctrine, which has put force protection well ahead of any type of "Collateral Damage", which may well be inflicted upon innocent non-combatants.

The IDF has made deliberate military decisions to take out entire buildings simply to target one High Value Target (HVT), with at least one such incident leading to hundreds of civilian casualties.

6.) These types of "targeted bombing" and "targeted shelling" serve the dual purpose, of helping to minimize IDF casualties, which regardless of a much greater stomach for this among Israeli public opinion after 10/7/23 than might have been before is still not finite, while also being able to quickly clear massive amounts of territory of any potential hostile elements before the "clock runs out".

7.) I am not convinced about your line of "covering up Putinesque losses", since I suspect that many Israeli's are likely aware of the significant uptick on casualties (mostly WIA thus far), and are willing to accept that as a price.

8.) What might be a bit more damning is how many of these IDF casualties which have occurred within Gaza are from "friendly fire" incidents.

Quote
The Israeli military said on Tuesday that 105 soldiers have been killed in Gaza since ground operations began on Oct. 27, and that nearly 20 percent of those deaths were the result of accidents.

Of the 20 soldiers killed in accidents, 13 were the result of Israeli fire, six from errors related to “weaponry, machinery or trampling,” and one from a firing irregularity.

Fatigue, relaxed rules of engagement and a large number of Israeli troops operating under difficult conditions in a dense urban environment, including fighting in tunnels underground, could account for the high rate of accidents, said Yagil Levy, a civil-military relations expert at the Open University of Israel.

“Twenty percent of people killed by accidents or friendly fire is unprecedented in Israeli terms,” Mr. Levy said.

The percentage was notable as was the timing of when the data was made available, Mr. Levy added.

The military typically releases such statistics at the end of a war, he said, and the decision to release the numbers in real time speaks to the concern around “the drop of public trust in the military.”

An additional 600 soldiers have been wounded since the ground incursion began, according to data updated on Tuesday from the Israeli army. The military did not say how many of the total were wounded by Israeli fire.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/12/12/world/israel-hamas-gaza-war-news

9.) There are huge discrepancies between the number of IDF wounded according to this NYT story based upon official sources, versus those from the Clash Report.

So to go back to General Yitzhak Brick, maybe he is calling out the IDF for lying about wounded casualty numbers?Huh












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Conservatopia
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« Reply #4459 on: December 13, 2023, 05:12:10 AM »
« Edited: December 13, 2023, 09:52:00 AM by Hash »

Moments after saying that Israel will face Allah's wrath and saying some vile things about Israel a Turkish MP dropped dead from an apparent heart attack.

Genuinely laughed out loud at this.
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jaichind
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« Reply #4460 on: December 13, 2023, 08:15:22 AM »

Latest vote in UN on ceasefire.  Note Argentina vote given new government

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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #4461 on: December 13, 2023, 09:36:43 AM »

Latest vote in UN on ceasefire.  Note Argentina vote given new government



These are really sick people. There was a ceasefire. Then the terrorist death cult ended the ceasefire because they didn’t want to release the hostages they raped.
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« Reply #4462 on: December 13, 2023, 04:34:04 PM »

Latest vote in UN on ceasefire.  Note Argentina vote given new government



These are really sick people. There was a ceasefire. Then the terrorist death cult ended the ceasefire because they didn’t want to release the hostages they raped.

"Am i out of touch? No, it's the rest of the world that's wrong."

They're literally trying to drown Palestinians, and last time I checked, hostages don't get an immunity to drowning.
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pppolitics
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« Reply #4463 on: December 13, 2023, 04:42:22 PM »

Latest vote in UN on ceasefire.  Note Argentina vote given new government



These are really sick people. There was a ceasefire. Then the terrorist death cult ended the ceasefire because they didn’t want to release the hostages they raped.

The lack of self-aware is astounding.

When the rest of the world is against you, it's time to reconsider.
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Reactionary Libertarian
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« Reply #4464 on: December 13, 2023, 06:14:05 PM »

Latest vote in UN on ceasefire.  Note Argentina vote given new government



These are really sick people. There was a ceasefire. Then the terrorist death cult ended the ceasefire because they didn’t want to release the hostages they raped.

The lack of self-aware is astounding.

When the rest of the world is against you, it's time to reconsider.

Jews aren’t going to agree to be killed again. Sorry. We know the rest of the world is against us. We have an army now and no amount of crying about “human rights” will change that. The good news is that the pro-Hamas side has no actual power to stop Israel other than crying that acshully, destroying Hamas is bad for Israel.
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Comrade Funk
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« Reply #4465 on: December 13, 2023, 06:37:03 PM »

Latest vote in UN on ceasefire.  Note Argentina vote given new government



These are really sick people. There was a ceasefire. Then the terrorist death cult ended the ceasefire because they didn’t want to release the hostages they raped.

The lack of self-aware is astounding.

When the rest of the world is against you, it's time to reconsider.

Jews aren’t going to agree to be killed again. Sorry. We know the rest of the world is against us. We have an army now and no amount of crying about “human rights” will change that. The good news is that the pro-Hamas side has no actual power to stop Israel other than crying that acshully, destroying Hamas is bad for Israel.
For the love of god, please stop conflating Israel with Jews.
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pppolitics
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« Reply #4466 on: December 13, 2023, 07:06:13 PM »

Latest vote in UN on ceasefire.  Note Argentina vote given new government



These are really sick people. There was a ceasefire. Then the terrorist death cult ended the ceasefire because they didn’t want to release the hostages they raped.

The lack of self-aware is astounding.

When the rest of the world is against you, it's time to reconsider.

Jews aren’t going to agree to be killed again. Sorry. We know the rest of the world is against us. We have an army now and no amount of crying about “human rights” will change that. The good news is that the pro-Hamas side has no actual power to stop Israel other than crying that acshully, destroying Hamas is bad for Israel.

With Israel creating more and more foes, the IDF would be overwhelmed.

The protection from the United States is what is keeping Israel's foes from rolling right over Israel.

Bibi should be kissing Biden's feet every chance that he gets.
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dead0man
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« Reply #4467 on: December 13, 2023, 07:13:36 PM »

overwhelmed by who?  Lebanon and Syria are failed states already and Jordan and Egypt will never give up the aid, certainly not to assist Hamas.  Iran and it's pals are already doing everything that they can to hurt Israel covertly (because they know if it become out in the open it would be very bad for them).
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« Reply #4468 on: December 13, 2023, 07:33:53 PM »

Latest vote in UN on ceasefire.  Note Argentina vote given new government



These are really sick people. There was a ceasefire. Then the terrorist death cult ended the ceasefire because they didn’t want to release the hostages they raped.

The lack of self-aware is astounding.

When the rest of the world is against you, it's time to reconsider.

Jews aren’t going to agree to be killed again. Sorry. We know the rest of the world is against us. We have an army now and no amount of crying about “human rights” will change that. The good news is that the pro-Hamas side has no actual power to stop Israel other than crying that acshully, destroying Hamas is bad for Israel.

With Israel creating more and more foes, the IDF would be overwhelmed.

The protection from the United States is what is keeping Israel's foes from rolling right over Israel.

Bibi should be kissing Biden's feet every chance that he gets.

That's not true. America is helpful but Israel is strong enough on it's own. Also if Israel really felt existentially threatened and abandoned they would become extremely brutal, do ethnic cleansing or even use nukes before they allow the Jewish people to become stateless again. So if you care about Palestinian rights you should want America supporting Israel.
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pppolitics
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« Reply #4469 on: December 13, 2023, 07:34:35 PM »

overwhelmed by who?  Lebanon and Syria are failed states already and Jordan and Egypt will never give up the aid, certainly not to assist Hamas.  Iran and it's pals are already doing everything that they can to hurt Israel covertly (because they know if it become out in the open it would be very bad for them).

If it wasn't for the protection of the United States, you can scratch the "covertly" part.
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« Reply #4470 on: December 13, 2023, 07:56:18 PM »

Latest vote in UN on ceasefire.  Note Argentina vote given new government



These are really sick people. There was a ceasefire. Then the terrorist death cult ended the ceasefire because they didn’t want to release the hostages they raped.

"Am i out of touch? No, it's the rest of the world that's wrong."

They're literally trying to drown Palestinians, and last time I checked, hostages don't get an immunity to drowning.

The “rest of the world” has been united in their hatred of the Jewish people for centuries and centuries. Their unity does not justify their hate.
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« Reply #4471 on: December 13, 2023, 08:50:33 PM »

Latest vote in UN on ceasefire.  Note Argentina vote given new government



These are really sick people. There was a ceasefire. Then the terrorist death cult ended the ceasefire because they didn’t want to release the hostages they raped.

The lack of self-aware is astounding.

When the rest of the world is against you, it's time to reconsider.

Jews aren’t going to agree to be killed again. Sorry. We know the rest of the world is against us. We have an army now and no amount of crying about “human rights” will change that. The good news is that the pro-Hamas side has no actual power to stop Israel other than crying that acshully, destroying Hamas is bad for Israel.

With Israel creating more and more foes, the IDF would be overwhelmed.

The protection from the United States is what is keeping Israel's foes from rolling right over Israel.

Bibi should be kissing Biden's feet every chance that he gets.

Gazans are being bombed & brutalized by Israel, exploited & sacrificed by Hamas, and undermined by nitwits. Exhibit a ^
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« Reply #4472 on: December 13, 2023, 08:56:45 PM »

overwhelmed by who?  Lebanon and Syria are failed states already and Jordan and Egypt will never give up the aid, certainly not to assist Hamas.  Iran and it's pals are already doing everything that they can to hurt Israel covertly (because they know if it become out in the open it would be very bad for them).

If it wasn't for the protection of the United States, you can scratch the "covertly" part.
maybe, but that still doesn't answer the overwhelmed by who question.  It's not like Iran has a good military with advanced force projection.  They are (maybe) good at sneaking guns and missiles into Gaza and southern Lebanon (and more than a few other places, because they are bad guys aimed at destabilization), but there is no evidence they are good at, ya know, actual war.
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pppolitics
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« Reply #4473 on: December 13, 2023, 09:27:33 PM »

Exclusive: Nearly half of the Israeli munitions dropped on Gaza are imprecise ‘dumb bombs,’ US intelligence assessment finds

Quote
CNN — Nearly half of the air-to-ground munitions that Israel has used in Gaza in its war with Hamas since October 7 have been unguided, otherwise known as “dumb bombs,” according to a new US intelligence assessment.

The assessment, compiled by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and described to CNN by three sources who have seen it, says that about 40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions Israel has used have been unguided. The rest have been precision-guided munitions, the assessment says.

Unguided munitions are typically less precise and can pose a greater threat to civilians, especially in such a densely populated area like Gaza. The rate at which Israel is using the dumb bombs may be contributing to the soaring civilian death toll.

On Tuesday, President Joe Biden said Israel has been engaged in “indiscriminate bombing” in Gaza.

Asked for comment on the assessment, IDF spokesperson Nir Dinar told CNN, “We do not address the type of munitions used.”

Major Keren Hajioff, an Israeli spokesperson, said on Wednesday that “as a military committed to international law and a moral code of conduct, we are devoting vast resources to minimizing harm to the civilians that Hamas has forced into the role of human shields. Our war is against Hamas, not against the people of Gaza.”

But experts told CNN that if Israel is using unguided munitions at the rate the US believes they are, that undercuts the Israeli claim that they are trying to minimize civilian casualties.

“I’m extremely surprised and concerned,” said Brian Castner, a former Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) officer who now serves as Amnesty International’s senior crisis adviser on arms and military operations.

“It’s bad enough to be using the weapons when they are precisely hitting their targets. It is a massive civilian harm problem if they do not have that accuracy, and if you can’t even give a benefit of the doubt that that the weapon is actually landing where the Israeli forces intended to,” Castner added.

[...]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #4474 on: December 13, 2023, 11:27:11 PM »

overwhelmed by who?  Lebanon and Syria are failed states already and Jordan and Egypt will never give up the aid, certainly not to assist Hamas.  Iran and it's pals are already doing everything that they can to hurt Israel covertly (because they know if it become out in the open it would be very bad for them).

If it wasn't for the protection of the United States, you can scratch the "covertly" part.
maybe, but that still doesn't answer the overwhelmed by who question.  It's not like Iran has a good military with advanced force projection.  They are (maybe) good at sneaking guns and missiles into Gaza and southern Lebanon (and more than a few other places, because they are bad guys aimed at destabilization), but there is no evidence they are good at, ya know, actual war.

They don't have to be good at war when they have Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, Iraqi and Syrian militias, etc. Asymmetric/irregular warfare operates by different rules from state-on-state military conflict. Iran can fight dirty on the relative cheap and at a remove, giving their regime just enough plausible deniability in any given attack by a proxy force.

And it's not like any of the Israel-"aligned" Arab countries (other than maybe Egypt) have competent militaries, even assuming that their militaries would remain loyal to their respective regimes in a conflict against Israel---or the United States....
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