Israel-Gaza war

[ingemann]

Europe has never cared less about Israel action in Gaza. European countries abstaining in ceasefire vote is the same as voting against it. European countries voting against is full support for Israeli bulldozing the entire strip.  
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/UN_Resolution_regarding_the_2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war.svg/2560px-UN_Resolution_regarding_the_2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war.svg.png

So, no USA is not isolated on this, the fact that no outside USA beside the usual suspect criticize Biden for this is also a clear indication that USA are losing zero political capital for this. The Saudi and their client and allies are all criticizing this the least they can do, the only country really making noises is the Egyptians and that’s because they don’t want to risk ending up having to rehouse the Palestinians.

The whole massive domestic reaction to this conflict in USA overshadow the fact, that the reaction abroad have been quite different, the protest in Europe are dominated by Muslim minorities*, pro-Israeli government have been very clear, while even the usual suspect have been much more wooly mouthed about it.

* I know several very anti-Zionist people who have stayed out of the protest, because they didn’t want to look like supporting Hamas or other Islamist organizations.

[Blue3]

Yeah, I don’t think bombing Qatar is a good idea actually.

It would feel good in the moment. But that can be said of a lot of the Israeli strategy in this war, and yet...

Well if the US, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE do bomb Qatar, no doubt the largest US Air Force base in the Middle East will be indispensable to such an operation; I wonder which country that base is located in!

just annex Qatar, make it an unincorporated territory and offer the guest workers US citizenship which would easily result in Qatar having an American majority

What in the world did I miss... why do people want to bomb Qatar? From my understanding it's been one of the more peaceful, stable, and neutral countries in the Middle East? (compared to others in the Middle East)

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Yeah, I don’t think bombing Qatar is a good idea actually.

It would feel good in the moment. But that can be said of a lot of the Israeli strategy in this war, and yet...

Well if the US, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE do bomb Qatar, no doubt the largest US Air Force base in the Middle East will be indispensable to such an operation; I wonder which country that base is located in!

just annex Qatar, make it an unincorporated territory and offer the guest workers US citizenship which would easily result in Qatar having an American majority

What in the world did I miss... why do people want to bomb Qatar? From my understanding it's been one of the more peaceful, stable, and neutral countries in the Middle East? (compared to others in the Middle East)

Qatar is harboring Hamas leadership. If things went south, I could easily see it in Israel's crosshairs- but their role in brokering the hostage deal that brought almost all the children home likely put the kibosh on that, thankfully.

[jaichind]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/12/politics/biden-israel-losing-support-netanyahu/index.html

"Biden tells donors Israel is losing support, Netanyahu must change his government"

Why is it that we always hear about how Biden really feels about something through some meeting with donors?

[Vosem]

Oh no! Is anyone going to sanction the US or Israel (even in a meaningless way, the way the EU technically sanctions the US over the death penalty use in the US)? Or let this impact relations in any way?

The odd thing is that, even beyond the Arab world, this doesn't seem to be affecting relations even with the governments that are normally the most anti-Israeli, like Iran's. (As always, the Palestinian movement is very adept at alienating those who should be its friends). The only outraged government is that of North Yemen.

[Vosem]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/12/politics/biden-israel-losing-support-netanyahu/index.html

"Biden tells donors Israel is losing support, Netanyahu must change his government"

Why is it that we always hear about how Biden really feels about something through some meeting with donors?

The headline writers are being really selective, though -- if you continue reading the article itself, Biden said that military aid would not stop until Hamas was destroyed and at a different point in his remarks also claimed to "love" Netanyahu. Very much not the stance of the Israeli public!

“We’ll continue to provide military assistance to Israel until they get rid of Hamas, but we have to be careful – they have to be careful,” Biden said. “The whole world’s public opinion can shift overnight, we can’t let that happen.”

Biden and Netanyahu have a decades-long relationship that has at times been strained. At the Monday evening reception, Biden said he once gifted Netanyahu a photo and wrote at the top: “I love you but I don’t agree with a damn thing you had to say.”

On a different note, the State Department unfreezing military aid to Israel over the weekend was kind of momentous, because pretty much all indications had been that that is the part of the US government most hostile to the Israelis. If they're taking emergency measures that not every administration uses to send them weapons, then the overall level of support within the government as a whole must be very high indeed.

[GeneralMacArthur]

No end in sight?  Fighting in Gaza City has quieted down considerably and Israel should have Khan Yunis completely occupied within the next week.  They still need to root out Hamas from the Jabalia "refugee camp" and destroy the compounds in the south, but total Israeli victory looks like an inevitability at this point since none of the regional powers decided to get involved, and I predict that by mid-February we'll be primarily discussing the future administration of Gaza rather than violent conflict.  There's your "end."

[rc18]

No end in sight?  Fighting in Gaza City has quieted down considerably and Israel should have Khan Yunis completely occupied within the next week.  They still need to root out Hamas from the Jabalia "refugee camp" and destroy the compounds in the south, but total Israeli victory looks like an inevitability at this point since none of the regional powers decided to get involved, and I predict that by mid-February we'll be primarily discussing the future administration of Gaza rather than violent conflict.  There's your "end."

You would have thought all these people who were calling for a ceasefire would be happy groups of Hamas are ceasing firing, but they seem so sad about it...

[pppolitics]

And they still can't stop us.

No one can.

Stop from what?

Going over the cliff?

[pppolitics]

President Biden offered some of his sharpest criticism of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government on Tuesday, suggesting that a change to the conservative approach embraced by Israel’s leadership would be needed to resolve to the conflict in Gaza.

“Bibi’s got a tough decision to make,” Biden said Tuesday during a fundraiser in Washington, referring to Netanyahu by his nickname.

The president said Israel is beginning to lose support around the world — citing “indiscriminate bombing” as a cause. He added that Netanyahu “has to strengthen and change” his government to find a long-term solution to the long-running Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

“This is the most conservative government in Israel’s history,” Biden said, adding that current leadership “doesn’t want a two-state solution.”

It was not immediately clear what changes Biden would argue Netanyahu should make within his government. Still, the critique stood out as some of the most direct language Biden has used in speaking about his Israeli counterpart. In recent days, the two men have increasingly expressed opposing sentiments, as the Biden administration has grown more publicly concerned about how Israel is prosecuting its war against Hamas. The growing number of civilian casualties has vexed officials within the Biden administration, who have publicly warned that Israel’s approach has caused too much collateral damage.

[...]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/12/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-palestine/

[jojoju1998]

Biden hasn't been ( that chummy) with Nethenyahu for a while. This isn't new, dating back to the Obama days.

[pppolitics]

Biden hasn't been ( that chummy) with Nethenyahu for a while. This isn't new, dating back to the Obama days.

What is new is that Biden finally admitted that the “indiscriminate bombing” of the Palestinians is causing Israel to lose support around the world.

He also finally admitted that Israel “doesn’t want a two-state solution.”

In other words, Biden finally said the quiet part out loud.

[President Johnson]

Biden hasn't been ( that chummy) with Nethenyahu for a while. This isn't new, dating back to the Obama days.

Yeah, and for good reasons. Netanyahu has had difficult personal relationships with both. I hope he's replaced by Benny Gantz or Yair Lapid soon.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Biden hasn't been ( that chummy) with Nethenyahu for a while. This isn't new, dating back to the Obama days.

Yeah, and for good reasons. Netanyahu has had difficult personal relationships with both. I hope he's replaced by Benny Gantz or Yair Lapid soon.

I think right now Biden is being very careful to make his distaste for Netanyahu known in ways that won't poison the water with the inevitable Gantz government that will have a near-identical policy on Hamas/Gaza but potentially a very different policy on settlements.

[Beet]

Netanyahu is a right-winger who supported Romney over the Obama-Biden ticket in 2012. Why should Biden sacrifice his presidency and hand over the leading nation of the free world to a would-be dictator, so Netanyahu can drop white phosphorous on civilians? This is what has come to. Biden must learn to say "no", even if it's only to save his own skin.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Netanyahu is a right-winger who supported Romney over the Obama-Biden ticket in 2012. Why should Biden sacrifice his presidency and hand over the leading nation of the free world to a would-be dictator, so Netanyahu can drop white phosphorous on civilians? This is what has come to. Biden must learn to say "no", even if it's only to save his own skin.

Biden is not going to lose because he's siding with our long-term ally over a vicious terror group. He would lose if he did do that, overwhelmingly, if he was even renominated.

[Beet]

Netanyahu is a right-winger who supported Romney over the Obama-Biden ticket in 2012. Why should Biden sacrifice his presidency and hand over the leading nation of the free world to a would-be dictator, so Netanyahu can drop white phosphorous on civilians? This is what has come to. Biden must learn to say "no", even if it's only to save his own skin.

Biden is not going to lose because he's siding with our long-term ally over a vicious terror group. He would lose if he did do that, overwhelmingly, if he was even renominated.

You get a straight A in strawmanning. No one serious wants to side with "a vicious terror group".

He's leaning too hard towards Israel and it's splintering his party's base. The number one rule of politics is you have to keep your base intact.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Netanyahu is a right-winger who supported Romney over the Obama-Biden ticket in 2012. Why should Biden sacrifice his presidency and hand over the leading nation of the free world to a would-be dictator, so Netanyahu can drop white phosphorous on civilians? This is what has come to. Biden must learn to say "no", even if it's only to save his own skin.

Biden is not going to lose because he's siding with our long-term ally over a vicious terror group. He would lose if he did do that, overwhelmingly, if he was even renominated.

You get a straight A in strawmanning. No one serious wants to side with "a vicious terror group".

He's leaning too hard towards Israel and it's splintering his party's base. The number one rule of politics is you have to keep your base intact.

What is the proper balance to strike between our long-term ally, which has just been the victim of the worst anti-Jewish act of Genocide since the Holocaust, and the entity that committed that act of genocide? Because it looks to me like Biden is doing a very good job of that. Anything but "Total support, but urging a level of caution" would be electoral and moral malpractice.

[Beet]

Netanyahu is a right-winger who supported Romney over the Obama-Biden ticket in 2012. Why should Biden sacrifice his presidency and hand over the leading nation of the free world to a would-be dictator, so Netanyahu can drop white phosphorous on civilians? This is what has come to. Biden must learn to say "no", even if it's only to save his own skin.

Biden is not going to lose because he's siding with our long-term ally over a vicious terror group. He would lose if he did do that, overwhelmingly, if he was even renominated.

You get a straight A in strawmanning. No one serious wants to side with "a vicious terror group".

He's leaning too hard towards Israel and it's splintering his party's base. The number one rule of politics is you have to keep your base intact.

What is the proper balance to strike between our long-term ally, which has just been the victim of the worst anti-Jewish act of Genocide since the Holocaust, and the entity that committed that act of genocide? Because it looks to me like Biden is doing a very good job of that. Anything but "Total support, but urging a level of caution" would be electoral and moral malpractice.

He needs to call for a cease-fire and if it does not happen, withhold further military aid. Israel doesn't need it anyway. We have been Israel's ally for 70 years. Israel hasn't been our ally. It has caused the U.S. nothing but trouble and resentment in the Middle East.

[RilakkuMAGA]

President Biden offered some of his sharpest criticism of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government on Tuesday, suggesting that a change to the conservative approach embraced by Israel’s leadership would be needed to resolve to the conflict in Gaza.

“Bibi’s got a tough decision to make,” Biden said Tuesday during a fundraiser in Washington, referring to Netanyahu by his nickname.

The president said Israel is beginning to lose support around the world — citing “indiscriminate bombing” as a cause. He added that Netanyahu “has to strengthen and change” his government to find a long-term solution to the long-running Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

“This is the most conservative government in Israel’s history,” Biden said, adding that current leadership “doesn’t want a two-state solution.”

It was not immediately clear what changes Biden would argue Netanyahu should make within his government. Still, the critique stood out as some of the most direct language Biden has used in speaking about his Israeli counterpart. In recent days, the two men have increasingly expressed opposing sentiments, as the Biden administration has grown more publicly concerned about how Israel is prosecuting its war against Hamas. The growing number of civilian casualties has vexed officials within the Biden administration, who have publicly warned that Israel’s approach has caused too much collateral damage.

[...]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/12/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-palestine/

Man, if only he was in a position of power where he could do anything about this.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Netanyahu is a right-winger who supported Romney over the Obama-Biden ticket in 2012. Why should Biden sacrifice his presidency and hand over the leading nation of the free world to a would-be dictator, so Netanyahu can drop white phosphorous on civilians? This is what has come to. Biden must learn to say "no", even if it's only to save his own skin.

Biden is not going to lose because he's siding with our long-term ally over a vicious terror group. He would lose if he did do that, overwhelmingly, if he was even renominated.

You get a straight A in strawmanning. No one serious wants to side with "a vicious terror group".

He's leaning too hard towards Israel and it's splintering his party's base. The number one rule of politics is you have to keep your base intact.

What is the proper balance to strike between our long-term ally, which has just been the victim of the worst anti-Jewish act of Genocide since the Holocaust, and the entity that committed that act of genocide? Because it looks to me like Biden is doing a very good job of that. Anything but "Total support, but urging a level of caution" would be electoral and moral malpractice.

He needs to call for a cease-fire and if it does not happen, withhold further military aid. Israel doesn't need it anyway. We have been Israel's ally for 70 years. Israel hasn't been our ally. It has caused the U.S. nothing but trouble and resentment in the Middle East.

As long as there is a single hostage left in Hamas' hands, there will be no cease-fire. If the US cuts off Israel, Israel will move to harsher measures to eliminate the threat as hard and fast as possible before they run out of supplies. Biden can continue on the path supported by a majority of Democrats and a super-majority of Americans, or he can bring us to the brink of war with a long-term ally in defense of a terror group.

[Beet]

Netanyahu is a right-winger who supported Romney over the Obama-Biden ticket in 2012. Why should Biden sacrifice his presidency and hand over the leading nation of the free world to a would-be dictator, so Netanyahu can drop white phosphorous on civilians? This is what has come to. Biden must learn to say "no", even if it's only to save his own skin.

Biden is not going to lose because he's siding with our long-term ally over a vicious terror group. He would lose if he did do that, overwhelmingly, if he was even renominated.

You get a straight A in strawmanning. No one serious wants to side with "a vicious terror group".

He's leaning too hard towards Israel and it's splintering his party's base. The number one rule of politics is you have to keep your base intact.

What is the proper balance to strike between our long-term ally, which has just been the victim of the worst anti-Jewish act of Genocide since the Holocaust, and the entity that committed that act of genocide? Because it looks to me like Biden is doing a very good job of that. Anything but "Total support, but urging a level of caution" would be electoral and moral malpractice.

He needs to call for a cease-fire and if it does not happen, withhold further military aid. Israel doesn't need it anyway. We have been Israel's ally for 70 years. Israel hasn't been our ally. It has caused the U.S. nothing but trouble and resentment in the Middle East.

As long as there is a single hostage left in Hamas' hands, there will be no cease-fire. If the US cuts off Israel, Israel will move to harsher measures to eliminate the threat as hard and fast as possible before they run out of supplies. Biden can continue on the path supported by a majority of Democrats and a super-majority of Americans, or he can bring us to the brink of war with a long-term ally in defense of a terror group.

So you are threatening that Israel will go to war with the U.S. of we don't hand over military aid? Biden should call that bluff.

Israel is free to "move to harsher measures"; the U.S. should simply not associate with it. And the rest of the world will start treating it like apartheid South Africa.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Netanyahu is a right-winger who supported Romney over the Obama-Biden ticket in 2012. Why should Biden sacrifice his presidency and hand over the leading nation of the free world to a would-be dictator, so Netanyahu can drop white phosphorous on civilians? This is what has come to. Biden must learn to say "no", even if it's only to save his own skin.

Biden is not going to lose because he's siding with our long-term ally over a vicious terror group. He would lose if he did do that, overwhelmingly, if he was even renominated.

You get a straight A in strawmanning. No one serious wants to side with "a vicious terror group".

He's leaning too hard towards Israel and it's splintering his party's base. The number one rule of politics is you have to keep your base intact.

What is the proper balance to strike between our long-term ally, which has just been the victim of the worst anti-Jewish act of Genocide since the Holocaust, and the entity that committed that act of genocide? Because it looks to me like Biden is doing a very good job of that. Anything but "Total support, but urging a level of caution" would be electoral and moral malpractice.

He needs to call for a cease-fire and if it does not happen, withhold further military aid. Israel doesn't need it anyway. We have been Israel's ally for 70 years. Israel hasn't been our ally. It has caused the U.S. nothing but trouble and resentment in the Middle East.

As long as there is a single hostage left in Hamas' hands, there will be no cease-fire. If the US cuts off Israel, Israel will move to harsher measures to eliminate the threat as hard and fast as possible before they run out of supplies. Biden can continue on the path supported by a majority of Democrats and a super-majority of Americans, or he can bring us to the brink of war with a long-term ally in defense of a terror group.

So you are threatening that Israel will go to war with the U.S. of we don't hand over military aid? Biden should call that bluff.

Israel is free to "move to harsher measures"; the U.S. should simply not associate with it. And the rest of the world will start treating it like apartheid South Africa.

Why would he do that, when the vast majority of the country wants us to support our ally and Americans are still in Hamas hands?

"Biden should potentially damn the world to save our enemies" is, shockingly, a political non-starter despite the screeching of the Judenhass mobs cosplaying 1933 Berlin in our cities. If Biden actually wants to boost his electoral prospects, he would send in the troops and start charging people with felony riot as a hate crime.

[Vosem]

Biden hasn't been ( that chummy) with Nethenyahu for a while. This isn't new, dating back to the Obama days.

What is new is that Biden finally admitted that the “indiscriminate bombing” of the Palestinians is causing Israel to lose support around the world.

He also finally admitted that Israel “doesn’t want a two-state solution.”

In other words, Biden finally said the quiet part out loud.

And in the same speech, he also said he "loves" Netanyahu!

Maybe we is recognizing that the opinions of those who oppose the campaign to destroy Hamas are worthless and should not be respected.

[MyLifeIsYours]

153 countries voted for an immediate ceasefire at the latest United Nation Assembly meeting, with 23 countries voting in absence and 10 countries dissent.