Israel-Gaza war

[Gass3268]

Yikes

https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1730385896338244043?s=20

[Logical]

[NOVA Green]

An Israeli freed hostage confronted the head of the Hamas military leadership in Gaza during her captivity and told him he should be ashamed of himself:

(More to the article but don't believe it is paywalled--- or at least haven't yet hit the monthly limit).

Yocheved Lifsh**tz, 85, who was released from Hamas captivity last month, revealed in an interview released Wednesday that she met Hamas chief Yahya Sinwar in a tunnel during her time in Gaza — and was not afraid to tell him what she thought.

“Sinwar was with us three-four days after we got there,” Lifsh**tz told the Davar news outlet. “I asked him how he wasn’t ashamed of himself, to do such a thing to people who for years supported peace. He didn’t answer. He was quiet.”

Lifsh**tz turned out on Tuesday evening at a rally outside Defense Ministry headquarters in Tel Aviv, calling for the release of her husband, Oded Lifsh**tz, 83, who is still held hostage in Gaza.

“I’m here to protest. To bring my Oded home,” Lifsh**tz told Davar. “We will keep protesting until all of the hostages are back.”

Lifsh**tz, who was released on October 23 alongside Nurit Cooper, was a longtime peace activist who, alongside her husband, used to volunteer to transport patients from Gaza to receive medical treatment in hospitals across Israel.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/freed-hostage-yocheved-lifsh**tz-i-asked-sinwar-how-he-wasnt-ashamed-he-didnt-reply/

[All Along The Watchtower]

Yikes

https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1730385896338244043?s=20

Really infuriating considering that thousands of Israeli and Palestinian civilians have died.

That said, I can’t say I’n shocked. 

[MasterJedi]

Yikes

https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1730385896338244043?s=20

Really infuriating considering that thousands of Israeli and Palestinian civilians have died.

That said, I can’t say I’n shocked. 

This has been known for awhile, they knew it was coming but thought the Palestinians were pacified in Gaza with the aid Hamas was accepting as a play to lull Israel and they fell for it.

[GP270watch]

 How does Benjamin Netanyahu's government survive this? More and more is coming out that his administration totally failed to prevent this attack even with advanced intelligence.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Benjamin Netanyahu's entire government needs to be purged from politics after this. Probably a lot of Israel's intelligence apparatus as well. What a disgrace.

[OSR stands with Israel]

No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable.

How many times post-World War II has one side agreed to surrender unconditionally? That's not how war works anymore.

How many times prior to WW2 did one side agree to surrender unconditionally

[Pericles]

There are very few comparisons to be made with WW2, one side hating Jews does not make it into a remotely similar conflict.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Fighting back on.

Israel said they have resumed hostilities.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/12/1/israel-hamas-war-live-relief-and-joy-as-more-palestinian-prisoners-freed

Photos from Northern Gaza appear to confirm this.


[John Macdougall/AFP]


[John Macdougall/AFP]

[mileslunn]

For anyone from Israel, what do both sides want as curious how many still even want a two state solution or do most on either or maybe both sides want other removed from country?  

I get impression most Israelis for a two state solution and issue is more against right of return from Palestinian refugees created in 1948 and over exact boundaries (keep Jerusalem in Israel and exchange some Arab towns for Jewish settlements near Green Line).  By contrast I get impression Hamas at least wants Israel wiped off the map.  I get some upset over Nakba in 1948 but lots of places have had demographics change and you don't usually call for expulsion.  First Nations in Canada & US aren't calling for whites to be removed even though they stole the land and unlike Jews, aren't indigenous at any point in history to Canada or US.  So just curious if any Israeli or Palestinian could answer this.  Also any chance of a solution as I don't think current situation is tenable long term.

West Bank being occupied into islands but not contiguous is totally unworkable.  Either grant it independence and remove settlements or at least any of those far from Green Line or have it annexed by Israel and give the Palestinians full equal rights like Israeli Arabs have.  I know both have tons of flaws and would not be easy, but surely either one even if disagree or strongly dislike cannot be worse than status quo.

Note regardless of my opinion on issue, I know its very complex so would be interested to hear from anyone with any greater knowledge on this.

[mileslunn]

UN vote on a resolution demanding Israel to "withdraw from all occupied Syrian Golan to the line of June 4, 1967."

Fairly predictable and representative of the current world alignment on Israel-Hamas

The Pacific sure seems to support Israel.

Marshall Islands, Micronesia, and Palau are part of the Compact Free Association.  They were UN Trusteeships under US control after World War II and only got independence from US in 80s.  Since they still rely on help from US, they more or less always align with US on foreign policy.  Other pacific countries took different approach.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

UN vote on a resolution demanding Israel to "withdraw from all occupied Syrian Golan to the line of June 4, 1967."

Fairly predictable and representative of the current world alignment on Israel-Hamas

The Pacific sure seems to support Israel.

Marshall Islands, Micronesia, and Palau are part of the Compact Free Association.  They were UN Trusteeships under US control after World War II and only got independence from US in 80s.  Since they still rely on help from US, they more or less always align with US on foreign policy.  Other pacific countries took different approach.

They have a higher rate of enlistment in the US military than any US state or territory. So they really might as well be the 6-8th populated US territories.

[Silent Hunter]

No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable.

How many times post-World War II has one side agreed to surrender unconditionally? That's not how war works anymore.

How many times prior to WW2 did one side agree to surrender unconditionally

The Armistice of 1918 wasn't unconditional surrender, but it was a surrender in name.

[Flyersfan232]

we need a german style denazification process for gaza and numberburg trials for october 7th

[Hnv1]

No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable.

How many times post-World War II has one side agreed to surrender unconditionally? That's not how war works anymore.

Unconditional is a bit misleading, but Artsakh surrendered pretty much unconditionally just two months ago

[Middle-aged Europe]

we need a german style denazification process for gaza and numberburg trials for october 7th

What's a "numberberg trial"?

[Conservatopia]

we need a german style denazification process for gaza and numberburg trials for october 7th

What's a "numberberg trial"?

A trial where they present you with the number of people you killed of course.

[redjohn]

we need a german style denazification process for gaza and numberburg trials for october 7th

For the sake of consistency, I hope you support China's re-education camps in Xinjiang and the cultural imperialism in Tibet. You'll need to use them as a model for the genocide Israel so desperately wants to finish in Gaza.

[Vosem]

https://twitter.com/DemocraticLuntz/status/1730259931440222482

Was extremely temped to start a thread with that title, but Atlas mods would probably merge it with this one and people have read enough of me that they wouldn't bite. It could've been great, though

[Open Source Intelligence]

No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable.

How many times post-World War II has one side agreed to surrender unconditionally? That's not how war works anymore.

How many times prior to WW2 did one side agree to surrender unconditionally

Prior to World War II, countries would declare war and hostilities would formally end with treaties. We don't declare war and we don't do lasting treaties anymore, so conflict just ebbs and rises like waves in the ocean. Was there ever a declaration of war or treaty of any kind in regards to Syria, a conflict that was not really a civil war but more a pan-Arabian Peninsula War with Saudi Arabia and Friends on one side against Iran and Friends on the other? No, the Syrians with outside help "won" and Assad remained in power, but they still only control about 2/3rds of the country.

Throw on top of all that Hamas is not a state because Palestine is not a state nor are they the governing authority de jure (Abbas is), so they cannot unconditionally surrender when Israel does not recognize the authority of their leader nor the existence of the State of Palestine. So from who and where are you receiving this hypothetical piece of paper and what gives said person the authority to give it? This is a Prussia-francs tireurs conflict. It's not like the francs tireurs ever formally surrendered to the Prussian military.

[Open Source Intelligence]

I get impression most Israelis for a two state solution and issue is more against right of return from Palestinian refugees created in 1948 and over exact boundaries (keep Jerusalem in Israel and exchange some Arab towns for Jewish settlements near Green Line).

Parallel with Cyprus/Turkish Cyprus again.

[RilakkuMAGA]

This is absolutely just horrible. Actually gut-wrenching, but s good microcosm of Israel.

https://twitter.com/BenzionSanders/status/1730489255816839608?t=72-maqxxflJIOwm1...

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

This is absolutely just horrible. Actually gut-wrenching, but s good microcosm of Israel.

And let's not forget that Ben-Gvir was handing out semi-automatic rifles to this guys family, friends and cousins only a few weeks ago. That's sure to help things. But make sure to blame Hamas when another 100+ people in the West Bank are slaughtered by these thugs (and that's being kind/generous).

[Stranger in a strange land]

No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable.

How many times post-World War II has one side agreed to surrender unconditionally? That's not how war works anymore.

How many times prior to WW2 did one side agree to surrender unconditionally

Prior to World War II, countries would declare war and hostilities would formally end with treaties. We don't declare war and we don't do lasting treaties anymore, so conflict just ebbs and rises like waves in the ocean. Was there ever a declaration of war or treaty of any kind in regards to Syria, a conflict that was not really a civil war but more a pan-Arabian Peninsula War with Saudi Arabia and Friends on one side against Iran and Friends on the other? No, the Syrians with outside help "won" and Assad remained in power, but they still only control about 2/3rds of the country.

Throw on top of all that Hamas is not a state because Palestine is not a state nor are they the governing authority de jure (Abbas is), so they cannot unconditionally surrender when Israel does not recognize the authority of their leader nor the existence of the State of Palestine. So from who and where are you receiving this hypothetical piece of paper and what gives said person the authority to give it? This is a Prussia-francs tireurs conflict. It's not like the francs tireurs ever formally surrendered to the Prussian military.

Countries basically don't declare war on each other anymore. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is quite famously a "Special Military Operation", and referring to it as a war, depending on the context, can have legal repercussions. More interestingly, even though Ukraine has enacted martial law and the country's leaders and state media frequently refer to it being "at war" Ukraine hasn't issued a formal declaration of war against Russia either.