Israel-Gaza war

[LostFellow]

So Israel went from "no way we bombed that hospital" to "oh look, this was Hamas about that hospital, and that was Hamas about that hospital, if was Hamas HQ..." and we still don't think they bombed the hospital??

Are you maybe mixing up Al-Ahli hospital (likely PIJ misfire) and Al-Shifa hospital? No one has denied the IDF operation into Al-Shifa, and the collateral damage from such is certainly saddening.

[LostFellow]

Meclazine's posts here, including hits such as likening the incoming IDF operation to the Crusades and framing such as good thing for the residents of Israel and Palestine, and random tabloid says all Palestinans are crisis actors, are to me the easiest way to lose the youth wing of the UMC pro globalism, pro free-trade, pro nat-sec crowd. Within the local sphere of Atlas, he may be the poster that has the strongest negative effect for those who prefer pro-Zionist outcomes or even two-state solutions.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

England's greatest ever Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, would have crushed the Pro-Palestinian protests in London according to her former aide, Nile Gardiner.

https://www.heritage.org/europe/commentary/how-thatcher-would-have-crushed-the-pro-palestinian-protesters


I am in no doubt that she would have supported an outright ban on the hate-filled pro-Palestine/pro-Hamas “protests.”
Bettmann / Contributor / Getty Images

Thatcher supported Pol Pot, so she certainly had serious moral issues.

[MyLifeIsYours]

England's greatest ever Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, would have crushed the Pro-Palestinian protests in London according to her former aide, Nile Gardiner.

https://www.heritage.org/europe/commentary/how-thatcher-would-have-crushed-the-pro-palestinian-protesters


I am in no doubt that she would have supported an outright ban on the hate-filled pro-Palestine/pro-Hamas “protests.”
Bettmann / Contributor / Getty Images

The prime minster who further the escalation of runaway capitalist hegemony in the West? The same leader who punish the working class by breaking up the coal miner unions and stating falsely "there is no society?"

Yes, this is a lady we should look as the ideal leader for peace in the Middle East.

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

England's greatest ever Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, would have crushed the Pro-Palestinian protests in London according to her former aide, Nile Gardiner.

https://www.heritage.org/europe/commentary/how-thatcher-would-have-crushed-the-pro-palestinian-protesters


I am in no doubt that she would have supported an outright ban on the hate-filled pro-Palestine/pro-Hamas “protests.”
Bettmann / Contributor / Getty Images

You've officially gone off the deep end

[OSR stands with Israel]

England's greatest ever Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, would have crushed the Pro-Palestinian protests in London according to her former aide, Nile Gardiner.

https://www.heritage.org/europe/commentary/how-thatcher-would-have-crushed-the-pro-palestinian-protesters


I am in no doubt that she would have supported an outright ban on the hate-filled pro-Palestine/pro-Hamas “protests.”
Bettmann / Contributor / Getty Images

You've officially gone off the deep end

I mean UK Tories did vote Thatcher as their greatest hero over Churchill and Disraeli

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

So Israel went from "no way we bombed that hospital" to "oh look, this was Hamas about that hospital, and that was Hamas about that hospital, if was Hamas HQ..." and we still don't think they bombed the hospital??

Are you maybe mixing up Al-Ahli hospital (likely PIJ misfire) and Al-Shifa hospital? No one has denied the IDF operation into Al-Shifa, and the collateral damage from such is certainly saddening.

In fact, the whole reason I was inclined to believe that Al-Ahli was a PIJ misfire in the first place was that the IDF tends not to outright deny bombing hospitals but to argue that the hospitals are disguised military targets. I thought that made their insistence that they just hadn't bombed Al-Ahli at all a lot more credible than it would have been otherwise.

England's greatest ever Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, would have crushed the Pro-Palestinian protests in London according to her former aide, Nile Gardiner.

https://www.heritage.org/europe/commentary/how-thatcher-would-have-crushed-the-pro-palestinian-protesters


I am in no doubt that she would have supported an outright ban on the hate-filled pro-Palestine/pro-Hamas “protests.”
Bettmann / Contributor / Getty Images

You've officially gone off the deep end

I mean UK Tories did vote Thatcher as their greatest hero over Churchill and Disraeli

That is a very bad thing and the Tories are a very bad party.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Why is it that I go to the Israel-Gaza War thread and see a dozen copies of this enormous picture of Maggie Thatcher?

Do you guys have to constantly repost the picture in your quote?  Can't you just take three seconds and remove it from the quote?  JFC

[CumbrianLefty]

Meclazine's posts here, including hits such as likening the incoming IDF operation to the Crusades and framing such as good thing for the residents of Israel and Palestine, and random tabloid says all Palestinans are crisis actors, are to me the easiest way to lose the youth wing of the UMC pro globalism, pro free-trade, pro nat-sec crowd. Within the local sphere of Atlas, he may be the poster that has the strongest negative effect for those who prefer pro-Zionist outcomes or even two-state solutions.

This phrase really is one of the most reliable "nothing I say should be taken seriously" flags going.

[EastAnglianLefty]

Nile Gardiner did Thatcher's photocopying for a very short period of time which more or less coincided with when it became impossible to conceal her advancing senility any longer. He does not have insight into what her thought processes would have been.

To the very limited extent that there's a chance he's right, it relates to information already given.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf

75% of Palestinians view Hamas in a positive manner and back the 10/7 attacks

75% of Americans saw Bush in a positive manner and backed the Iraq War when it began.

Getting your buildings bombed to the ground and your people brutally murdered radicalizes citizens through nationalism, who would’ve thought! Shocking stuff that Netanyahu plus Israeli far-right feed Hamas and vice-versa!

Lol you are truly unbelievable and all your defenses of radical Islamists are completely lol worthy . The fact is the PLO had genocidal goals for decades and completely sabotaged hopes for peace over and over again so it was the PLO. Now they back a group worse than the PLO because what they want is Israel to no longer exist and that’s always been their belief.

Anyway this poll is probably similar to what the German public thought about the Nazis from 43-45 and yeah Gaza just like Germany needs to be depropagandized

It's always ironic you say this because you would have backed the Iraq war lmao

And this is what makes me respect you.

Regardless of anything else, every other feud we have, i forgive and will let that slip. You're a freedom fighter when it comes to this.

This just proves the horseshoe theory is true when it comes to this issue or foreign policy in general. You tend to side with Posters like Deadprez and Yellowhammer on this issue while I tend to side with S019 and President Johnson more on this issue than those posters .

I'm sure Deadprez will be thrilled to hear you consider him extremist.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Chilling propaganda video from Israel using innocent children signing this fascist rubbish.

I already addressed this on the previous page.  Please read the thread before re-posting stuff.

Also please don't get your news from Max Blumenthal, for christ's sake.  Have some dignity.  Have some self-respect.  You know perfectly well that this guy lies all the time.  So why are you still dignifying him with your attention and credulity?

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Was going to post this in an Oregon thread but figured there isn't any point in starting any Israel/Gaza convo on that thread, so just throwing this on here. My former Senator, and absolutely one of the best we've got in the Senate these days, is backing a ceasefire.

https://twitter.com/SenJeffMerkley/status/1726704028804153647?s=20

[Horus]

Was going to post this in an Oregon thread but figured there isn't any point in starting any Israel/Gaza convo on that thread, so just throwing this on here. My former Senator, and absolutely one of the best we've got in the Senate these days, is backing a ceasefire.

https://twitter.com/SenJeffMerkley/status/1726704028804153647?s=20

The second senator after Durbin to do so.

Jamie Raskin also called for a ceasefire a few days ago which I was very happy to see. He's one of the best members of Congress.

[Logical]

Hezbollah has gone woke
https://twitter.com/Intel_Sky/status/1726730470702895605?t=CiKFwN1xiSxwhGNCOrAHs...

[Blue3]

Hezbollah has gone woke
https://twitter.com/Intel_Sky/status/1726730470702895605?t=CiKFwN1xiSxwhGNCOrAHs...

How is that "woke"?

[Logical]

Hezbollah has gone woke
https://twitter.com/Intel_Sky/status/1726730470702895605?t=CiKFwN1xiSxwhGNCOrAHs...

How is that "woke"?

It's a joke. The word "woke" has lost any actual meaning a long time ago.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Alright tax dodgers.

PBS News Hour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC0tUVHegik

PBS News Hour talking about hostages, Hospitals and the Hamas militants hiding amongst them. The Indonesian Hospital is now a focus of attention.

The CCTV footage of Israeli hostages within al-Shifa Hospital on October 7, 2023 now supports the IDF and US claims about the al-Shifa Hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67469591

“The US has said it also has intelligence that Hamas has used hospitals in the Gaza Strip, including al-Shifa, as command centres and weapons stores.”

It looks like US intelligence was correct.

IDF Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsuuqB4QjlA

It will be interesting to see if Doctors and staff in Al-Shifa hospital will admit that they were in these videos or saw the hostages witnessed in the videos taken from CCTV. Previously, many Doctors in Gaza have refuted these claims. Will have to wait for the facts on this issue.

Now it has been revealed by the IDF that the hostages were both held and ultimately killed in and around this Hospital.

PBS News Hours stated some interesting historical research from 2014:

“Palestinian civilians accused of colluding with Israel were tortured by Hamas within the grounds of the Al-Shifa Hospital in 2014.”

BBC News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=544XxX9co_0

BBC News talks about hostage negotiations between Israel and Hamas.

Looks like the IDF has rescued the babies from Al-Shifa Hospital and taken them to Egypt.

IDF Transports Babies From Al-Shifa

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cz30SenIZkY/

Great work from the Israeli forces to remove these babies from the fighting and used as media pawns by Hamas.

Hamas could have sent these babies to Egypt 4 weeks ago, but clearly, they needed the media attention.

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/lookner/status/1726794649912909994?s=12
Please 🙏

[RilakkuMAGA]

@ModernBourbon your video says "English subtitles added by The Electronic Intifada" which I somehow doubt is impartial.  At any rate, the line preceding it is "we will annihilate the swastika bearers" which makes it clear who they want to "annihilate" (assuming The Electronic Intifada translated that term accurately... lol)

Dan Cohen has posted a lot of fake news in this conflict and you shouldn't get your info from him.

Is there any evidence that this is fake - besides "I don't like the guy who posted it"?

There's at least one Hebrew speaker who seems to indicate that it is accurate (saw a tweet by David Mivasair, a left-wing rabbi, confirming his understanding.)

[GeneralMacArthur]

@ModernBourbon your video says "English subtitles added by The Electronic Intifada" which I somehow doubt is impartial.  At any rate, the line preceding it is "we will annihilate the swastika bearers" which makes it clear who they want to "annihilate" (assuming The Electronic Intifada translated that term accurately... lol)

Dan Cohen has posted a lot of fake news in this conflict and you shouldn't get your info from him.

Is there any evidence that this is fake - besides "I don't like the guy who posted it"?

There's at least one Hebrew speaker who seems to indicate that it is accurate (saw a tweet by David Mivasair, a left-wing rabbi, confirming his understanding.)

I don't speak Hebrew but in general I just don't trust extremely obviously biased sources and don't grant credibility to what they say.  If it's actually newsworthy you probably won't have to go to a group that calls itself The Electronic Intifada or Max Blumenthal to find out about it.  These accounts thrive on the presumption that there's some massive widespread cover-up of anti-Israel information and therefore you have to go to The Electronic Intifada to find out about bad things Israel's doing that everyone else won't tell you... but that's clearly not true and what happens far more often is these accounts tweet out misinformation, manipulations or outright lies and their audience laps it up.

That's different from "I don't like the guy who posted it."

But even if it is an accurate and faithful translation, it's not that interesting in the first place since the dark, genocidal interpretation is 100% dependent on ignoring the context of the preceding line in the song.  Which may be why no other news organization covered it, because it's only newsworthy if you intentionally manipulate its meaning by removing a single line from its context.  Not that I would ever accuse The Electronic Intifada of posting a manipulative, inflammatory tweet to try and make people hate Israel.  They would never do that!

So you see, whenever you read stuff from accounts like this, you have to filter it through a layer of "how are they trying to bulls--t me" and "why are they the only ones talking about this" and usually during that filtering process you'll find that they're once again lying to you.  At a certain point you just get tired of being lied to and played for a fool, and you stop listening to what these accounts have to say.  Or at least, I do.  There are evidently loads of people who love being played for a fool again and again and again because they just keep going back to the well even when they know it's poisoned.

[RilakkuMAGA]

@ModernBourbon your video says "English subtitles added by The Electronic Intifada" which I somehow doubt is impartial.  At any rate, the line preceding it is "we will annihilate the swastika bearers" which makes it clear who they want to "annihilate" (assuming The Electronic Intifada translated that term accurately... lol)

Dan Cohen has posted a lot of fake news in this conflict and you shouldn't get your info from him.

Is there any evidence that this is fake - besides "I don't like the guy who posted it"?

There's at least one Hebrew speaker who seems to indicate that it is accurate (saw a tweet by David Mivasair, a left-wing rabbi, confirming his understanding.)

I don't speak Hebrew but in general I just don't trust extremely obviously biased sources and don't grant credibility to what they say.  If it's actually newsworthy you probably won't have to go to a group that calls itself The Electronic Intifada or Max Blumenthal to find out about it.  These accounts thrive on the presumption that there's some massive widespread cover-up of anti-Israel information and therefore you have to go to The Electronic Intifada to find out about bad things Israel's doing that everyone else won't tell you... but that's clearly not true and what happens far more often is these accounts tweet out misinformation, manipulations or outright lies and their audience laps it up.

That's different from "I don't like the guy who posted it."

But even if it is an accurate and faithful translation, it's not that interesting in the first place since the dark, genocidal interpretation is 100% dependent on ignoring the context of the preceding line in the song.  Which may be why no other news organization covered it, because it's only newsworthy if you intentionally manipulate its meaning by removing a single line from its context.  Not that I would ever accuse The Electronic Intifada of posting a manipulative, inflammatory tweet to try and make people hate Israel.  They would never do that!

So you see, whenever you read stuff from accounts like this, you have to filter it through a layer of "how are they trying to bulls--t me" and "why are they the only ones talking about this" and usually during that filtering process you'll find that they're once again lying to you.  At a certain point you just get tired of being lied to and played for a fool, and you stop listening to what these accounts have to say.  Or at least, I do.  There are evidently loads of people who love being played for a fool again and again and again because they just keep going back to the well even when they know it's poisoned.

"XXX is biased and has an agenda so XXX must be lying" is an extraordinarily dangerous and foolish position to take in a conflict like this. It's how you get certain activists who seem to bizarrely and falsely claim that Hamas militants didn't commit any atrocities on 10/7. They are correct in saying that the Israeli government often lies (the "babies in ovens" thing ended up almost certainly being a lie). They are wrong to conclude that means the Israeli government lies about everything (they in fact do have video evidence of Hamas militants murdering children).

Electronic Intifada is clearly an anti-Israel organization, which is why I double-checked the responses, replies, quotes, etc. But I didn't see anything indicating that this video is fake.

[GeneralMacArthur]

I am not dependent on the Israeli government to tell me that the 10/7 massacre happened.  It is easily verifiable that it happened without having to rely on any outlet whatsoever, but even if that weren't the case, there are plenty of credible outlets providing reporting on 10/7.

That said "XXX is biased and has an agenda" is very different from "XXX has a rich history of lying and manipulating and deceiving, so I'm just going to automatically assume they're lying and not use them as a source of information."  That is especially the case for actors like Max Blumenthal who are professional liars and whose entire purpose in the discourse is to spread lies and disinformation.  Why would you trust such a person?  Why would you use them as a source of information?  Why should I be expected to take his claims seriously and devote a single second of my life to taking his claims into consideration?  I don't owe every single person on the planet credence.  I'm well within my rights to draw a line and say "anyone whose credibility is below this line, I'm simply going to completely ignore them."

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

@ModernBourbon your video says "English subtitles added by The Electronic Intifada" which I somehow doubt is impartial.  At any rate, the line preceding it is "we will annihilate the swastika bearers" which makes it clear who they want to "annihilate" (assuming The Electronic Intifada translated that term accurately... lol)

Dan Cohen has posted a lot of fake news in this conflict and you shouldn't get your info from him.

Is there any evidence that this is fake - besides "I don't like the guy who posted it"?

There's at least one Hebrew speaker who seems to indicate that it is accurate (saw a tweet by David Mivasair, a left-wing rabbi, confirming his understanding.)

Mivasair is not a Rabbi. He has a lot of ties to Jews for Jesus, a Christian supersessionist movement, and has made several odd comments indicating it. Just another weird little touch from JVP.

[Hnv1]

Ceasefire to begin within 24 hours, 53 civilian hostages to be released in exchange for 159 female/child Palestinian prisoners, and five days of lull. The ceasefire can be extended by an additional 5 days if Hamas releases 50 more.

I highly doubt the ceasefire will actually last all five days, let alone ten.