Israel-Gaza war

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Some are suggesting from the photograph that casualties may also be overstated, but without a look inside the hospital (and knowing thousands of people were sheltering in the hospital and on the grounds last night) I'd hesitate to draw any conclusions there.

Yes, that seems like hopium to me. Outright denying that this was a mass death of civilians just doesn't connect with reality.

I'd imagine that hospitals in Gaza are pretty crowded right now.

[Logical]

If it was an Israeli JDAM as claimed, there would be a crater, the surrounding buildings would see more damage, glass around the site would've been shattered and the trees in the parking lot would not be standing. So in this case, the Israelis are probably telling the truth. It was a fragment of a failed rocket that unfortunately fell on a crowded mass.

[jaichind]

USA embassy in Lebanon on fire

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

USA embassy in Lebanon on fire

And just 5 days before the 40th anniversary of the Beirut barracks bombings.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Having said all this, I don't exactly blame people for assuming the IDF was lying. It was my first instinct too. But sometimes things really are just horrific, senseless mistakes.

[Logical]

It certainly did not help Israel's narrative when they ordered the hospitals to evacuate and threatened to bomb them in the past few days.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It certainly did not help Israel's narrative when they ordered the hospitals to evacuate and threatened to bomb them in the past few days.

Yeah, Israel really showing that they weren't the villain at this particular hospital on this particular day.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It certainly did not help Israel's narrative when they ordered the hospitals to evacuate and threatened to bomb them in the past few days.

Yeah, Israel really showing that they weren't the villain at this particular hospital on this particular day.

This is the key thing—an evidence-based approach to this specific enormity exonerating the IDF does not mean that the broader Israeli approach is Okay, Actually.

[jaichind]

Evolution of NYT coverage.  The main problem with their wording is no matter what evidence is provided the Arab world will see this as an act of IDF and nothing will change that narrative within the Arab world.

[Zinneke]

Even if the IDF story is true (and I am inclined to think they did not target the hospital "for the lulz" but otherwise i have honestly no idea what happened), the damage done to the West's reputation is becoming incalculable purely because we have swathes of politicians eager to "stand with Israel" while giving a guy like Netenyahu, even reviled in his own country, an endorsement on any story he produces and any potential war crime the IDF commits. This is mana from heaven for Putin and Xi in Muslim countries [all while the regimes of these peoples are dysfunctional messes that cause emigration and none of them bother bringing up the case of the  Uyghurs, which is a systemic slow burn genocide as opposed to a bloody COIN operation] and will fast spread to other theatres.

https://twitter.com/HoansSolo/status/1714535960615039302

Israel has more than enough capacity to deal with this threat, we should have purely focused the PR on humanitarian aid and avoiding civilian deaths, removing terror organsiations, etc. We could always support Israel in a more subtle manner. Instead its become a "Clash of Civilizations" style rhetoric that will cost us dearly.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

I have to say I'm impressed with the amount of restraint shown in this thread over the past few hours while we've been monitoring the hospital situation. Particularly when you consider the thread started off with clowns arguing about if having sex with twinks makes you gay.

[jaichind]

https://news.yahoo.com/egypt-rejects-displacement-palestinians-sinai-091954370.html

"Egypt rejects any displacement of Palestinians into Sinai, says Sisi"

Egypt's President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said on Wednesday that Egyptians would reject the forced displacement of millions of Palestinians into Sinai, adding that any such move would turn the peninsula into a base for attacks against Israel.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1714580447986958748

[rc18]

Even if the IDF story is true (and I am inclined to think they did not target the hospital "for the lulz" but otherwise i have honestly no idea what happened), the damage done to the West's reputation is becoming incalculable purely because we have swathes of politicians eager to "stand with Israel" while giving a guy like Netenyahu, even reviled in his own country, an endorsement on any story he produces and any potential war crime the IDF commits. This is mana from heaven for Putin and Xi in Muslim countries [all while the regimes of these peoples are dysfunctional messes that cause emigration and none of them bother bringing up the case of the  Uyghurs, which is a systemic slow burn genocide as opposed to a bloody COIN operation] and will fast spread to other theatres.

https://twitter.com/HoansSolo/status/1714535960615039302

Israel has more than enough capacity to deal with this threat, we should have purely focused the PR on humanitarian aid and avoiding civilian deaths, removing terror organsiations, etc. We could always support Israel in a more subtle manner. Instead its become a "Clash of Civilizations" style rhetoric that will cost us dearly.

The "Western rush to back Israel" is because the government of Gaza launched a terrorist attack massacreing over a thousand civilians in ways that would make ISIS blush.

[jaichind]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-18/iran-calls-for-oil-embargo-against-israel-over-gaza-strikes?embedded-checkout=true

"Iran Calls for Oil Embargo Against Israel Over Gaza Strikes"

Oil prices surged over 2.5% on this news to a price over $90. 

[rc18]

Why are Western journalists regurgitating claims by proscribed terrorist organisations with absolutely no fact checking?

[Zinneke]

Even if the IDF story is true (and I am inclined to think they did not target the hospital "for the lulz" but otherwise i have honestly no idea what happened), the damage done to the West's reputation is becoming incalculable purely because we have swathes of politicians eager to "stand with Israel" while giving a guy like Netenyahu, even reviled in his own country, an endorsement on any story he produces and any potential war crime the IDF commits. This is mana from heaven for Putin and Xi in Muslim countries [all while the regimes of these peoples are dysfunctional messes that cause emigration and none of them bother bringing up the case of the  Uyghurs, which is a systemic slow burn genocide as opposed to a bloody COIN operation] and will fast spread to other theatres.

https://twitter.com/HoansSolo/status/1714535960615039302

Israel has more than enough capacity to deal with this threat, we should have purely focused the PR on humanitarian aid and avoiding civilian deaths, removing terror organsiations, etc. We could always support Israel in a more subtle manner. Instead its become a "Clash of Civilizations" style rhetoric that will cost us dearly.

The "Western rush to back Israel" is because the government of Gaza launched a terrorist attack massacreing over a thousand civilians in ways that would make ISIS blush.

No, for EU leaders at least it's because they care about the next election and it pays to paint a fifth column (Islam).

This really isn't our fight. We can condemn terrorism without going to give a criminal like Netenyahu a hug.

[jaichind]

https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/1714411995074576725

[Hnv1]

What an absolute calamity for Western media. We went to bed with Israel leveling a hospital killing over 500, to the reality of Palestinian rocket debris killing 10-20 at most.

Shame on you NYT, Guardian, and the rest of the usual culprits.

[Meclazine for Israel]

What an absolute calamity for Western media. We went to bed with Israel leveling a hospital killing over 500, to the reality of Palestinian rocket debris killing 10-20 at most.

Shame on you NYT, Guardian, and the rest of the usual culprits.

Several things did not make sense in the whole scenario, as previously mentioned.

Netanyahu gave a historic speech introducing President Biden. His pride with the US friendship during this greatest hour of need was clear.

Really glad Joe Biden came out and verified what he had seen.

President Joe Biden Meeting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-yUY6XwJfM

Let's get back to searching for the 199 hostages in one of the worst terrorist attacks since 9/11.

[dead0man]

What an absolute calamity for Western media. We went to bed with Israel leveling a hospital killing over 500, to the reality of Palestinian rocket debris killing 10-20 at most.

Shame on you NYT, Guardian, and the rest of the usual culprits.

the reaction when they find out it wasn't those evil Jews that did it is very telling.

"well, it's still Israel's fault"

It's happening in this very thread with our own racists.  We will see a lot more of it as the day goes on and the bigots awake to the "tragic" news that the IDF wasn't at fault for the hospital.

[jaichind]

What an absolute calamity for Western media. We went to bed with Israel leveling a hospital killing over 500, to the reality of Palestinian rocket debris killing 10-20 at most.

Shame on you NYT, Guardian, and the rest of the usual culprits.

the reaction when they find out it wasn't those evil Jews that did it is very telling.

"well, it's still Israel's fault"

It's happening in this very thread with our own racists.  We will see a lot more of it as the day goes on and the bigots awake to the "tragic" news that the IDF wasn't at fault for the hospital.

If so then it will be similar to Nov 2022 when a Ukraine missile hit Poland

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/16/poland-president-missile-strike-probably-ukrainian-stray

"Missile that hit Poland likely came from Ukraine defences, say Warsaw and Nato"

“Let me be clear: this is not Ukraine’s fault,” Jens Stoltenberg said after an emergency meeting of alliance ambassadors in Brussels. “Russia bears the ultimate responsibility as it continues its illegal war against Ukraine.”

[dead0man]

What an absolute calamity for Western media. We went to bed with Israel leveling a hospital killing over 500, to the reality of Palestinian rocket debris killing 10-20 at most.

Shame on you NYT, Guardian, and the rest of the usual culprits.

the reaction when they find out it wasn't those evil Jews that did it is very telling.

"well, it's still Israel's fault"

It's happening in this very thread with our own racists.  We will see a lot more of it as the day goes on and the bigots awake to the "tragic" news that the IDF wasn't at fault for the hospital.

If so then it will be similar to Nov 2022 when a Ukraine missile hit Poland

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/16/poland-president-missile-strike-probably-ukrainian-stray

"Missile that hit Poland likely came from Ukraine defences, say Warsaw and Nato"

“Let me be clear: this is not Ukraine’s fault,” Jens Stoltenberg said after an emergency meeting of alliance ambassadors in Brussels. “Russia bears the ultimate responsibility as it continues its illegal war against Ukraine.”

indeed, the entity that started the current conflict is the most responsible


also, Ukraine had 1 (that we know of) missile fall short.  Hamas and the other terrorists do this sh**t all the time.  Because they suck.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I would assume that one issue with the media shitshow is that the awful incident happened at night. It has always been the case that solid facts about bombings and the like really only emerge during the hours of daylight, when you can actually see what has happened clearly, and that does also include casualty figures. As this is not in any way secret, and was a known issue during the Second World War no less, this is the very opposite of an excuse.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

And this is - ladies and gentlemen - what genocide denial looks like - brought to you on real time by Atlas.

Having said all this, I don't exactly blame people for assuming the IDF was lying. It was my first instinct too. But sometimes things really are just horrific, senseless mistakes.

Especially disappointed in you, I expected better from you.