Israel-Gaza war

[Vosem]

If true, it would make the Israeli misuse of the wrong footage even harder to rationalise. By lying, they have made it harder to argue their own case.

The people who run the twitter account have a long history of the sort of egregious incompetence that ought to get someone running the social media account of a medium-sized business sacked, let alone the government of a sovereign state.

Lapid made the correct call in not joining the unity government. Gantz and co. should have known from last time that they could not cancel out the malefactors and incompetents with Netanyahu in charge.

I would guess the people running a government Twitter account are civil servants and probably not high-ranking ones, rather than political appointees. Of course that makes the mistake (or pattern of mistakes, if one exists) less excusable, if someone is doing this as a career.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Funny how American media now say that it could be both sides. But when Russians say there's no reason residential buldings in some God forbidden town in Ukraine are hit on purpose and that's the remains of air defense, there's no both sides, Russians are just pure evil. Yet Israelis with it's history of war crimes vs Palestinians are to be beleived.

500 people are dead and your primary concern is complaining about Russia being condemned for its war crimes in Ukraine?

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1714399315278315950?s=12
The fallout is getting uglier

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/MirzaMahan/status/1714377238823469399
https://twitter.com/MirzaMahan/status/1714377313691852938
https://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1714408128588947764

[Vosem]

It does get frustrating that western news organizations quote "Palestinian Health Officials" verbatim, even though its a Hamas spokesman. If the IDF is correct and the Hospital was hit with Hamas rockets, then it's been almost 2 hours of multiple news websites top headline essentially being "IDF blows up hospital, kills 100s of innocent civilians".

There are currently multiple violet protests happening in the middle east right now because of this. Even more people are going to be killed. All for what could be a horrific accident.

Imagine thinking Western media is biased against Israel. Just lmao. Boy do I wish we had emojis so I could fill this post up with even more laughs.

https://twitter.com/daniopp/status/1714394637966663803

Hard to believe the paper that employed Walter Duranty would ever come to this!

[JohnCA246]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

[Vosem]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No, there are not, because Israel does not need to hide weapons depots in hospitals. This is very clearly 'something set off an explosion on or under the ground'.

Anyway, more fun media bias news (just from today!) -- compare story to headline:

https://twitter.com/PyriticVictory/status/1714382118770401512

[lfromnj]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No, there are not, because Israel does not need to hide weapons depots in hospitals. This is very clearly 'something set off an explosion on or under the ground'.

Anyway, more fun media bias news (just from today!) -- compare story to headline:

https://twitter.com/PyriticVictory/status/1714382118770401512

Not sure whats wtf considering Israel actually did a 1 for 1000 trade 10 years ago.

[JohnCA246]

Yes but there are military bases or gasoline storage areas in Israel with weapons depots. Jas a Palestinian missile ever caused that much damage? Not trying to lead to an answer honestly do not know. Also are there large scale targets with ammo that can be hit? Or are these things just too unreliable.

[pppolitics]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No. Palestinian missiles are not this powerful.

[Vosem]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No, there are not, because Israel does not need to hide weapons depots in hospitals. This is very clearly 'something set off an explosion on or under the ground'.

Anyway, more fun media bias news (just from today!) -- compare story to headline:

https://twitter.com/PyriticVictory/status/1714382118770401512

Not sure whats wtf considering Israel actually did a 1 for 1000 trade 10 years ago.

The headline might be cut off depending on your browser, but the headline is 'Hamas says it's willing to release all civilian hostages immediately if Gaza bombing stops'. The article reveals that there are other pretty large demands.

Israel did do a 1 for 1000 trade 10 years ago, but it was deeply unpopular with the public, obviously bad policy, certainly contributed to where we are today by incentivizing Hamas to take hostages, and I would really hope we're not living in a world stupid enough for that mistake to happen twice. "There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee..."

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No. Palestinian missiles are not this powerful.

It doesn't need to be powerful if it struck somewhere ammunition was being stored. It is possible that either a building at the hospital site or a neighboring building was being used for such purpose. You can hardly rule it out, especially given the GeoConfirmed analysis. It certainly isn't confirmed that a Palestinian rocket caused the explosion but it is a definite possibility.

I would wager the reason you don't see similar explosions in any cases where Palestinian rockets have landed in Israel is because the IDF is an actual military and follows proper ammunition storage procedures which are crafted specifically to prevent such explosions.

For the record, (relatively) small rockets have caused massive explosions like that on many occasions, just not in Israel as far as I'm aware. A single mortar round is the reason the Parthenon looks like it does today. This wouldn't be unprecedented.

[Vosem]

Yes but there are military bases or gasoline storage areas in Israel with weapons depots. Jas a Palestinian missile ever caused that much damage? Not trying to lead to an answer honestly do not know. Also are there large scale targets with ammo that can be hit? Or are these things just too unreliable.

No, this explosion was much more powerful than those normally caused by Israeli airstrikes much less Palestinian missiles. Your alternative explanation to 'there was an explosion on or under the ground' is that Israel would use a special missile for the attack and then not be prepared to react to it landing; this is also not really consistent with video footage, which shows an explosion on or under the ground. (Note that 'there was an explosion on or under the ground' would be consistent with how we know Hamas uses hospitals, and it is very likely that every hospital in Gaza is a depot like this unless Hamas does not have enough weaponry to make that happen. Moreover, current journalistic norms are incentivizing militant groups to do this around the world).

Occam's Razor; most of this was obvious within around an hour of the story breaking. The only part I was unsure about is whether the thing setting off the explosion was a Palestinian rocket (like the IDF claimed) or an Israeli airstrike (like the Palestinians claimed); it seemed likelier to be the former given how they're set off, but not so much likelier that I was willing to go out on a limb to say that. It seems like we have evidence now that what set off the explosion was a Palestinian rocket, though.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I guess one thing's for sure about this hospital bombing: We Just Don't Know.

As far as I've seen the initial statements of fact or near-fact that Israel had done it (as opposed to suppositions, accusations, or hypotheses) were based, apparently exclusively, on "Gazan government sources," which are, you know, Hamas, so it was journalistic malpractice to take their word for it. It would be journalistic malpractice to take the IDF's word for it as well. It's not like they've never bombed hospitals before.

More generally, I think there's a tendency to not get that Hamas is the government of the Gaza Strip, not just a group that a separate "Gazan government" is harboring like the Taliban and ISI harbored al-Qaeda. You'd think professional Middle East reporters would know better.

[pppolitics]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No. Palestinian missiles are not this powerful.

It doesn't need to be powerful if it struck somewhere ammunition was being stored. It is possible that either a building at the hospital site or a neighboring building was being used for such purpose. You can hardly rule it out, especially given the GeoConfirmed analysis. It isn't confirmed that a Palestinian rocket caused the explosion but it certainly looks possible.

I would wager that the reason you don't see similar explosions in any cases where Palestinian rockets have landed in Israel is because the IDF is an actual military and follows proper ammunition storage procedures which are crafted specifically to prevent such explosions.

We have seen plenty of ammunition depots being blown up in Ukraine before.

There would be one or more secondary explosions from the ammunition.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Two pictures taken from German media tonight, depicting the insanity of our times...


Passengers lying down in front of Olaf Scholz' air force plane at Tel Aviv airport after it had to evacuated (incl. the Chancellor) following Hamas rocket attacks.




Pro-Palestinian riots taking place in Berlin-Neukölln after the news of the Gaza hospital attack broke, police water cannons in action:

[Lief 🗽]

I am not a rocket scientist (….) but don’t rockets have a lot of fuel in them, in addition to the ordinance? This is what distinguishes them from shells. If the rocket hit the ground almost immediately after shooting off (as the video shows) wouldn’t the mostly unspent fuel all igniting explain the explosion?

[Vosem]

I am not a rocket scientist (….) but don’t rockets have a lot of fuel in them, in addition to the ordinance? This is what distinguishes them from shells. If the rocket hit the ground almost immediately after shooting off (as the video shows) wouldn’t the mostly unspent fuel all igniting explain the explosion?

My understanding is that it probably wouldn't be that large, or we'd see similar explosions very frequently. There are varying estimates, but a very large fraction of Hamas rockets land in Gaza; last year this was estimated at "roughly 20%". (I'm seeing "30-40%" repeated all over Twitter from, like, pro-Israel accounts copying each other, but I have no idea where they got those numbers.) Explosions of this magnitude don't happen that frequently, though, so there needs to be a special explanation. Given that this was a hospital and storing weapons in hospitals is a long-standing Hamas policy, it doesn't take a rocket scientist (...) to figure out what happened.

[Vosem]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No. Palestinian missiles are not this powerful.

It doesn't need to be powerful if it struck somewhere ammunition was being stored. It is possible that either a building at the hospital site or a neighboring building was being used for such purpose. You can hardly rule it out, especially given the GeoConfirmed analysis. It isn't confirmed that a Palestinian rocket caused the explosion but it certainly looks possible.

I would wager that the reason you don't see similar explosions in any cases where Palestinian rockets have landed in Israel is because the IDF is an actual military and follows proper ammunition storage procedures which are crafted specifically to prevent such explosions.

We have seen plenty of ammunition depots being blown up in Ukraine before.

There would be one or more secondary explosions from the ammunition.

Probably, yes (although not necessarily), if it were an ammunition depot. But if it is a rocket depot (which is what the original report claimed), and particularly if it is a rocket depot in a small and confined space where the rockets are packed together very tightly, then all the fuel would simply go up at once.

[JohnCA246]

Wouldnt rockets from Gaza landing in Israeli border towns also have a lot of unspent fuel? The poster from OH also brought up a point. Have we ever seen Israeli mumitions cause this damage? I really dont recall anything like this. Since Israel blows up other targets with Hamas weapons, do explosions like this happen regularly? Wasnt there footage of a high rise collapsing in the first day or so but I dont know anytjimg about this stuff.

[pppolitics]

Wouldnt rockets from Gaza landing in Israeli border towns also have a lot of unspent fuel? The poster from OH also brought up a point. Have we ever seen Israeli mumitions cause this damage? I really dont recall anything like this. Since Israel blows up other targets with Hamas weapons, do explosions like this happen regularly? Wasnt there footage of a high rise collapsing in the first day or so but I dont know anytjimg about this stuff.

Bunker busters that Israel uses to target Gaza's tunnels can easily cause this much damage if not more.

[PSOL]

UNIFIL is shown to be toothless in the face of crisis. The possibility of a further escalation among the Lebanese-Israeli border is at an all time high.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Fog of war and all but I'm not inclined to believe that shrapnel falling in a parking lot has the same signature as a JDAM (which Hamas does not have) and was enough to level a hospital which Israel had already previously targeted and had given a warning to evacuate in days prior.

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No. Palestinian missiles are not this powerful.

It doesn't need to be powerful if it struck somewhere ammunition was being stored. It is possible that either a building at the hospital site or a neighboring building was being used for such purpose. You can hardly rule it out, especially given the GeoConfirmed analysis. It certainly isn't confirmed that a Palestinian rocket caused the explosion but it is a definite possibility.

I would wager the reason you don't see similar explosions in any cases where Palestinian rockets have landed in Israel is because the IDF is an actual military and follows proper ammunition storage procedures which are crafted specifically to prevent such explosions.

For the record, (relatively) small rockets have caused massive explosions like that on many occasions, just not in Israel as far as I'm aware. A single mortar round is the reason the Parthenon looks like it does today. This wouldn't be unprecedented.

Hospitals also typically have tanks of oxygen and other highly combustible substances on premises.

[NOVA Green]

J'Accuse...!

Ironic you picked that headline as the Dreyfus Affair is the reason modern Zionism exists.

That was not completely accidental sir...

I do consider myself to be fairly well read and indeed read Emile Zola's letter in High School French class.

Have been consistent with what I have posted regarding some of my opinions on this thread regarding the current situation, but yet have become increasingly frustrating that this thread has effectively devolved into mutual recriminations and finger-pointing about all of the history of the past, to the point where we have recently gotten into such OT elements to the point where many posters have not actually been even talking about actual things occurring in the present.

Still, I would imagine had the conflict in Northern Ireland continued to the present day, likely we would be similar threads devolving on Atlas.