Israel-Gaza war
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Author Topic: Israel-Gaza war  (Read 220228 times)
Vosem
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« Reply #2050 on: October 14, 2023, 02:43:01 AM »


Lots more to the article, and like I said it's only a $1 / week trial subscription.

Clearing your cookies is also an option in situations like this Smiley
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #2051 on: October 14, 2023, 04:41:50 AM »
« Edited: October 14, 2023, 06:27:32 AM by CumbrianLefty »



Genuine question: obviously Hamas have always been a genocidal totalitarian terror cult, but were they always this bad or did the events of last weekend surprise even by their standards?

Basically no, that's why last weekend was so shocking.

A simplification as these things always are - but one analogy I have seen is that they roughly started out as Sinn Fein in the pre-NI ceasefire days, but have now become close to ISIS.
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Coldstream
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« Reply #2052 on: October 14, 2023, 06:07:23 AM »



Genuine question: obviously Hamas have always been a genocidal totalitarian terror cult, but were they always this bad or did the events of last weekend surprise even by their standards?

Basically no, that's why last weekend was so shocking.

A simplification as these things always are - but one analogy I have seen is that they roughly started out as Sinn Fain in the pre-NI ceasefire days, but have now become close to ISIS.

Seems more than a little unfair on the IRA, they never saw it as a holy war against all Protestants everywhere. They never included religious texts advocating killing Protestants everywhere in their foundation document. Last week was simply Hamas putting their thoughts & writings in to action.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #2053 on: October 14, 2023, 06:22:26 AM »

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Angel of Death
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« Reply #2054 on: October 14, 2023, 06:36:57 AM »

Why is aid or relief from the sea apparently a non-starter?
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TiltsAreUnderrated
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« Reply #2055 on: October 14, 2023, 06:40:01 AM »

Why is aid or relief from the sea apparently a non-starter?

Israeli naval blockade.

This is occasionally punctured by sealed barrels containing supplies, but nothing else at the moment. We may see more USVs, UUVs and midget submarines sneaking through in the years to come.
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TiltsAreUnderrated
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« Reply #2056 on: October 14, 2023, 06:47:26 AM »

Genuine question: obviously Hamas have always been a genocidal totalitarian terror cult, but were they always this bad or did the events of last weekend surprise even by their standards?
Hamas to me feels less like a genocidal terror cult (like Daesh) and more like a barbaric self-interested gang grifting off Palestinian liberation. Still evil, but a different kind of evil. They'd rather Israel exist and their (meaning Hamas') elite dwell in mansions in the Persian Gulf region than neither be true.

See, a week ago I was pretty sure that was the case.
I hope you're not taking the TOP SECRET EVIL PLAN on a random dead soldier at face value. The attack was a barbaric one that targeted civilians but it was fundamentally one at flipping the script on the Israeli security state.

This is a frankly chilling way of framing what happened last weekend, all the more so since at this point you really don't have to engage in this sort of contortion of basic morals given the predictably brutal nature of the Israeli response.
Doesn't contradict the brutality of the attack, but its strategic purpose was to exact a political victory by exposing the IDF as unprepared and/or unwilling to escalate beyond the air raids.
https://www.ettingermentum.news/p/israels-tet-moment

A real political victory would have seen them taking territory without methodically killing civilians. This could have damaged the warmongers’ narrative about coexistence being impossible within any communities they occupied.

Public opinion in the West was near-worthless to them - but public opinion among Israelis should not have been. The difference between the relative professionalism seen in the initial seizure of Crimea and the bloodthirsty debacles in Kyiv and Kherson is instructive here.
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Angel of Death
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« Reply #2057 on: October 14, 2023, 06:53:53 AM »

Why is aid or relief from the sea apparently a non-starter?

Israeli naval blockade.

This is occasionally punctured by sealed barrels containing supplies, but nothing else at the moment. We may see more USVs, UUVs and midget submarines sneaking through in the years to come.

I don't find the mere fact that there is a blockade a compelling argument, because Israel also controls the Rafah border crossing and this has been subject to temporary humanitarian agreements.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #2058 on: October 14, 2023, 06:54:55 AM »



Von Der Leyen, not to be outdone by Michel's antics with regards to Ukraine, is exploiting this crisis to run her own foreign policy despite EU27 not having agreed on a common stance.
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rc18
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« Reply #2059 on: October 14, 2023, 07:05:33 AM »

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Velasco
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« Reply #2060 on: October 14, 2023, 07:16:23 AM »

Quote from: Blue3 link=topic=566181.msg9243738#ms

I'm glad Biden finally acknowledged this... especially after the evacuation order, and what the Israeli president and others have said.

Acknowledging there are innocent civilians in Gaza won't be enough if he allows the ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip. Those fleeing through the Rafah crossing won't be allowed to return

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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #2061 on: October 14, 2023, 07:22:47 AM »

Why is aid or relief from the sea apparently a non-starter?

Israeli naval blockade.

This is occasionally punctured by sealed barrels containing supplies, but nothing else at the moment. We may see more USVs, UUVs and midget submarines sneaking through in the years to come.

If there is an Israeli blockade at the border entrance points and the sea, how did Hamas get all the rockets, weaponry and ammunition into the country to carry out the terrorist attacks?
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« Reply #2062 on: October 14, 2023, 07:34:12 AM »

Why is aid or relief from the sea apparently a non-starter?

Israeli naval blockade.

This is occasionally punctured by sealed barrels containing supplies, but nothing else at the moment. We may see more USVs, UUVs and midget submarines sneaking through in the years to come.

If there is an Israeli blockade at the border entrance points and the sea, how did Hamas get all the rockets, weaponry and ammunition into the country to carry out the terrorist attacks?

Tunnels under the Sinai
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #2063 on: October 14, 2023, 07:36:01 AM »
« Edited: October 14, 2023, 07:45:50 AM by Meclazine for Israel »

The Gaza skyline has been receiving around 1,000 missiles per day.

Gaza Live Streams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcPPJqKsTR8

Israel is expected to launch a ground offensive tomorrow. Hamas have told the Gaza population not to migrate south from Gaza City and the surrounding area. Hamas are simply telling the Palestinian population to stay in harm's way which is a clear indication of the fundamental issue at hand.


An Israeli missile hits Gaza City (Reuters)

The Jewish community in Australia feel under threat from recent anti-semitism displayed last week in rallies for the Palestinians in Sydney.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-14/nsw-israelis-palestinians-in-australia-gaza-war-attack-sydney/102972138


Thousands attended a vigil arranged by the Jewish community in Sydney on Wednesday.(ABC News: Brendan Esposito)

One Jewish man who came to the vigil with his six children told the ABC it had been "a really hard week" for two reasons – he was worried about his father and sister who both live in Israel, and also concerned for his family's safety in Sydney.

I have never seen as much antisemitism in Australia before. I actually did not think it was a big issue before this. But the threat of Islamic Terrorism to their existence is now very real.

One of my Jewish friends on Instagram received this message recently.

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WalterWhite
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« Reply #2064 on: October 14, 2023, 07:45:07 AM »

Is the Israeli military using white phosphorus in its military attacks? That seems like a war crime to me.
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #2065 on: October 14, 2023, 07:49:27 AM »
« Edited: October 14, 2023, 07:54:44 AM by Meclazine for Israel »

Is the Israeli military using white phosphorus in its military attacks? That seems like a war crime to me.

Yes, I posted the exact time for the use on Wednesday in my Gaza Live Stream post.

Gaza is rapidly getting pummelled back into the 14th century.

Gaza Drone Footage

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyQVRNAOGbZ/

Power ran out at 2pm this afternoon.

Big Explosions

Israel using White Phosphorous? 15:10:30
Missile Starts Large Fire 16:02:00
More Explosions 16:34:15

It was used multiple times near the Hamas centre of activities. I will see if I can find it for you.

Here you go:

https://abcnews.go.com/International/video/human-rights-watch-idf-white-phosphorus-munitions-gaza-103974785
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Velasco
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« Reply #2066 on: October 14, 2023, 09:00:04 AM »

Is the Israeli military using white phosphorus in its military attacks? That seems like a war crime to me.

HRW is denouncing the use of white phosphorus since yesterday



On the IDF call to "evacuate" northern Gaza. Ai deems the order is equivalent to forced displacement of population



Both amount to war crimes and are violations of international humanitarian law
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TiltsAreUnderrated
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« Reply #2067 on: October 14, 2023, 09:01:09 AM »


If there are to be humanitarian corridors, they will only run through Israel, the sea, or tunnels.
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Coldstream
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« Reply #2068 on: October 14, 2023, 09:25:23 AM »

I think the brutal truth is that the Egyptian government would rather the Israelis kill them (directly or indirectly) than have to look after 2 million refugees.
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #2069 on: October 14, 2023, 09:29:24 AM »

Is the Israeli military using white phosphorus in its military attacks? That seems like a war crime to me.

They've denied it. It's also only a war crime in certain circumstances and Israel isn't a signatory to one of the relevant protocols:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/13/israel-military-white-phosphorus-gaza-lebanon
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #2070 on: October 14, 2023, 09:35:14 AM »

Is the Israeli military using white phosphorus in its military attacks? That seems like a war crime to me.

They've denied it. It's also only a war crime in certain circumstances and Israel isn't a signatory to one of the relevant protocols:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/13/israel-military-white-phosphorus-gaza-lebanon
Oh! Well I guess there's no problem then.
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Velasco
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« Reply #2071 on: October 14, 2023, 09:56:50 AM »

I think the brutal truth is that the Egyptian government would rather the Israelis kill them (directly or indirectly) than have to look after 2 million refugees.


In that case, which party would be the main culprit: Egypt for not accepting them, or Israel for killing them? Should Egypt accept to resettle two million of Gazans in permanent refugee camps located in the Sinai peninsula?
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #2072 on: October 14, 2023, 10:04:26 AM »
« Edited: October 14, 2023, 10:09:17 AM by Meclazine for Israel »

I think the brutal truth is that the Egyptian government would rather the Israelis kill them (directly or indirectly) than have to look after 2 million refugees.


In that case, which party would be the main culprit: Egypt for not accepting them, or Israel for killing them? Should Egypt accept to resettle two million of Gazans in permanent refugee camps located in the Sinai peninsula?

Good question. I don't think there is a black and white answer.
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Isaak
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« Reply #2073 on: October 14, 2023, 10:07:55 AM »
« Edited: October 14, 2023, 12:09:28 PM by Hash »

I think the brutal truth is that the Egyptian government would rather the Israelis kill them (directly or indirectly) than have to look after 2 million refugees.


In that case, which party would be the main culprit: Egypt for not accepting them, or Israel for killing them? Should Egypt accept to resettle two million of Gazans in permanent refugee camps located in the Sinai peninsula?

Of course not. Why should Egypt accept the settlement of two million Palestinians anywhere on its territory? These people are not Egypt's problem and never will be
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No War, but the War on Christmas
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« Reply #2074 on: October 14, 2023, 10:12:55 AM »

I think the brutal truth is that the Egyptian government would rather the Israelis kill them (directly or indirectly) than have to look after 2 million refugees.


In that case, which party would be the main culprit: Egypt for not accepting them, or Israel for killing them? Should Egypt accept to resettle two million of Gazans in permanent refugee camps located in the Sinai peninsula?

Of course not. Why should Egypt accept the settlement of two million (radicalized) "Palestinians" anywhere on its territory? These people are not Egypt's problem and never will be.

Why "Palestinians" in quotes, and can a child of 14 become 'Radicalized' of their own volition to where it becomes genuinely their fault? Curious.
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