Israel-Gaza war

[Arizona Iced Tea]

https://twitter.com/theramrum/status/1712919776660504754
Absolutely sickening, Israel does not deserve any "moral" benefit of the doubt. When your brutalize an entire population you are no better than Hamas.

[oldtimer]

https://twitter.com/Samehahabeeb/status/1712843991824191966

This is insane.
These people should leave. They even have their kids out there, chanting (more or less) "we want to die." Like WTF is that?

That is the least surprising if you have followed all the wars in the middle east.

The will to die to defend their homeland is natural, but in the middle east it's very strong because of the constant invasions and wars, it's also why Israel was able to win the early arab-israeli wars.

[Arizona Iced Tea]

"We just killed your family but here's a juice box, look how loving we are!"
https://twitter.com/VidarbhaaTimes/status/1712924490513129647

[Estrella]

It's almost as if Gaza's population and indeed Palestine's, is as heterogeneous in its political and sociological profile as Israel's.

Shocking for those who think Arabs have a hive mind, I know.

That's because it's not hard for Hamas to spread their propaganda if all they see is Israeli bombs being launched towards them and devastate their house, possessions and families.

It's easy for us to judge over other people from our safe locations.

You’re absolutely correct. The same applies to Israel as well.

[SnowLabrador]

Israel and the United States should both be sanctioned for ethnic cleansing.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Putin and Zelensky have given their thoughts and its quite telling


https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-israeli-ground-operation-gaza-will-result-civilian-losses-2023-10-13/

Russian President Vladimir Putin cautioned Israel on Friday against laying siege to Gaza in the same way that Nazi Germany besieged Leningrad, saying a ground offensive there would lead to an "absolutely unacceptable" number of civilian casualties.

Putin said Israel had been subjected to "an attack unprecedented in its cruelty" by Hamas militants, but was responding with cruel methods of its own.

He said there had been calls even in the United States for a blockade of the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip on a par with "the siege of Leningrad during World War Two".

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/zelensky-israel-hamas-war-gaza-visit-netanyahu

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky wants to visit Israel in a show of solidarity with the country amid the fighting in Gaza, two Ukrainian and Israeli officials told Axios.

Zelensky will not be allowed to visit Israel and this is now a diplomatic dead end (at least he was smart enough to get it out there before the IDF response began in earnest). If the Ukrainian government plays their cards cleverly, we won't be hearing much more on this from him, as it'll risk burning sympathy in the Middle East for diminishing returns.

Putin's criticisms will cost him little: they'll find more global support than most of what the Russian state says and does these days. Netanyahu will not rebuff Putin because doing so would cast their existing relationship in a poor light to the Israeli electorate, and because he is an old friend. Their relationship has strengthened trade between the states and most likely deepened each of their personal fortunes.

Especially while Netanyahu is in power, these statements (and the new conflict) will not improve the Israeli approach to Russia and Ukraine. If anything, it may get worse if Israel finds itself facing a munitions shortage and sees shrinking aid to Ukraine as a means to solve it.

[ProudModerate2]

https://twitter.com/Samehahabeeb/status/1712843991824191966

This is insane.
These people should leave. They even have their kids out there, chanting (more or less) "we want to die." Like WTF is that?

If you knew your home was going to be absolutely leveled by an invading force and there would be a good chance you would probably never return back to it, would you not want to at least try to defend it?

Not against a force in where you have very little to nothing to "defend" yourself with.
IDF is going in with tanks and other heavy mobile military vehicles, and probably tens-of-thousands of infantry personnel.

The Hamas terrorists will probably try to resist, and as they use the Palestinian buildings (the homes) to hide in and shoot from, the tanks (and jets) are going to level these structures, regardless of who is in them (innocent women, children, elderly, etc).

If I had a family, I would take them away from this enormous incoming danger and protect them. The odds of "defending your home" for the normal Palestinian in Gaza is near zero. With those odds, protect your wife, children and elderly parents and get out. Lost property is property ... but a life you cannot get back.

[Aurelius2]

Israel and the United States should both be sanctioned for ethnic cleansing.

We are trying to have a real discussion in here. Not everything is all about America. Please f**k off.

[Pericles]

Will Egypt really be able to control it's border if enough people are desperate enough to escape?

[Mr. Illini]

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/zelensky-israel-hamas-war-gaza-visit-netanyahu

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky wants to visit Israel in a show of solidarity with the country amid the fighting in Gaza, two Ukrainian and Israeli officials told Axios.

FYI - this doesn’t give you any sort of moral high ground. Zelensky is toeing the western position because his future depends on their continued support against his imperialist invader.

[Pericles]

Putin is actually right imo that both sides are cruel to civilians and breaching the law of armed conflict. Israel's war is justified while Hamas's is genocidal, but they should still try to minimise harm to civilians-no tragedy gives the attacker the moral right to be indiscriminate.

You do have to appreciate the brazen hypocrisy of him though.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/zelensky-israel-hamas-war-gaza-visit-netanyahu

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky wants to visit Israel in a show of solidarity with the country amid the fighting in Gaza, two Ukrainian and Israeli officials told Axios.

FYI - this doesn’t give you any sort of moral high ground. Zelensky is toeing the western position because his future depends on their continued support against his imperialist invader.

There were absolutely political reasons for his statement (I think this was more about improving relations with Israel than "the West"), but I wouldn't completely rule out the personal factors.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Israel and the United States should both be sanctioned for ethnic cleansing.

We are trying to have a real discussion in here. Not everything is all about America. Please f**k off.

IT'S. SNOWLABRADOR.

[Ferguson97]

The whole "Palestine voted for Hamas" argument is really stupid because:

1. It was 17 years ago. Perhaps they'd feel differently if they got to vote again, but this was the last election Palestine had.

2. 75% of Palestinians were either too young to vote or had not yet been born when these elections occurred.

3. It's not like Hamas won some huge mandate, they only got 44% of the vote. A majority of Palestinians voted against Hamas.

So, we're looking at what, 11% of the population? Probably less when you factor in people who have passed away?

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/zelensky-israel-hamas-war-gaza-visit-netanyahu

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky wants to visit Israel in a show of solidarity with the country amid the fighting in Gaza, two Ukrainian and Israeli officials told Axios.

FYI - this doesn’t give you any sort of moral high ground. Zelensky is toeing the western position because his future depends on their continued support against his imperialist invader.

There were absolutely political reasons for his statement (I think this was more about improving relations with Israel than "the West"), but I wouldn't completely rule out the personal factors.

Coincidentally, Israel and Ukraine are the two countries in the world with a Jewish head of state right now.

[Pericles]

It's immoral to commit crimes against civilians even if they politically support a reprehensible enemy, but as has been pointed out-Hamas does not represent the whole Gaza population or even most of it.

[Silent Hunter]

Coincidentally, Israel and Ukraine are the two countries in the world with a Jewish head of state right now.

Panama has a Jewish President. When you add heads of government, Russia and France join the list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_heads_of_state_and_government

France had a Jewish PM during the tail end of the Third Republic and the beginning of the Fourth, when the Prime Miniser had much more power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9on_Blum

[Unbeatable Titan Susan Collins]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/top-secret-hamas-documents-show-terrorists-intentionally-targeted-elem-rcna120310

[Middle-aged Europe]

Coincidentally, Israel and Ukraine are the two countries in the world with a Jewish head of state right now.

Panama has a Jewish President. When you add heads of government, Russia and France join the list.

Laurentino Cortizo is Catholic, although his mother was of Jewish descent.

[Reactionary Libertarian]

The whole "Palestine voted for Hamas" argument is really stupid because:

1. It was 17 years ago. Perhaps they'd feel differently if they got to vote again, but this was the last election Palestine had.

2. 75% of Palestinians were either too young to vote or had not yet been born when these elections occurred.

3. It's not like Hamas won some huge mandate, they only got 44% of the vote. A majority of Palestinians voted against Hamas.

So, we're looking at what, 11% of the population? Probably less when you factor in people who have passed away?

How many Gazans support Hamas and their tactics today? Unfortunately it is a lot higher than 11%.

[Silent Hunter]

Coincidentally, Israel and Ukraine are the two countries in the world with a Jewish head of state right now.

Panama has a Jewish President. When you add heads of government, Russia and France join the list.

Laurentino Cortizo is Catholic, although his mother was of Jewish descent.

Which makes him Jewish enough for the Law of Return.

[WalterWhite]

Bombing hospitals is psychotic.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The whole "Palestine voted for Hamas" argument is really stupid because:

1. It was 17 years ago. Perhaps they'd feel differently if they got to vote again, but this was the last election Palestine had.

2. 75% of Palestinians were either too young to vote or had not yet been born when these elections occurred.

3. It's not like Hamas won some huge mandate, they only got 44% of the vote. A majority of Palestinians voted against Hamas.

So, we're looking at what, 11% of the population? Probably less when you factor in people who have passed away?

How many Gazans support Hamas and their tactics today? Unfortunately it is a lot higher than 11%.

Yes. On the other hand, given how long they've been in charge and the nature of the regime they run within Gaza (i.e. a totalitarian one), you have to start asking questions about indoctrination when it comes to younger generations of Gazans supporting them.

[Pericles]

The whole "Palestine voted for Hamas" argument is really stupid because:

1. It was 17 years ago. Perhaps they'd feel differently if they got to vote again, but this was the last election Palestine had.

2. 75% of Palestinians were either too young to vote or had not yet been born when these elections occurred.

3. It's not like Hamas won some huge mandate, they only got 44% of the vote. A majority of Palestinians voted against Hamas.

So, we're looking at what, 11% of the population? Probably less when you factor in people who have passed away?

How many Gazans support Hamas and their tactics today? Unfortunately it is a lot higher than 11%.

Conflict on both sides radicalises the population and ultimately is a self-perpetuating cycle of misery.

[Aurelius2]

Coincidentally, Israel and Ukraine are the two countries in the world with a Jewish head of state right now.

Panama has a Jewish President. When you add heads of government, Russia and France join the list.

Laurentino Cortizo is Catholic, although his mother was of Jewish descent.

He's halachically Jewish then, though practically all Jewish communities would require him to renounce his belief in Jesus before counting toward a minyan, being called up to read the Torah, marrying another Jew, etc. Reform wouldn't consider him a Jew (they don't consider halacha to be binding and have a different definition of who is a Jew) but would likely consider him a zera yisrael and offer an accelerated conversion process.