Israel-Gaza war

[Aurelius2]

Obviously a lot will unfold and so the answer to this question could change depending on what happens, but it would be interesting to hear someone, if it is assumed reasonable that Israel responds to the attacks, what the alternative is to any of the steps that they have taken so far.

Clearly it is a complicated situation with Gaza being so densely populated, Hamas hiding in civilian areas, etc. But those things are fixed. What is the reasonable alternative?

I am someone who has been critical of actions by the Israeli government in the broader situation, but I suppose on these things I’m just a bit of a realist.

They've already killed all of the Hamas fighters who actually attacked Israel. Otherwise, a targeted assassination on Hamas leadership on Qatar, while technically a violation of their sovereignty (like Eichmann in Argentina) would be infinitely more justified than the mass torture and murder of children.

You know this how?

[kwabbit]

Is the evacuation actually taking place? I know it sounds crazy, but it's an eight mile walk (assuming that's the dominant form of transport within the Gaza strip at the moment) from Gaza City to south of Wadi Gaza river, so I don't think it's as unachievable as you would think. They would hopefully be able to come back north after the Israeli campaign.

Obviously Israel has a callous and cruel attitude towards the lives of Palestinian civilians, but the goal here is for only Hamas to be left within north Gaza to make the ground invasion easier. Hamas doesn't want that because it loses them protection so they order against the evacuation. The alternative would be that an evacuation does not take place and urban combat takes place in a busy city which could cost many more civilian lives. The other alternatives is that Israel doesn't enter Gaza and continues bombing or simply does nothing, neither of which have any point. I think describing it as ethnic cleansing is premature until we know the medium term Israeli plan and describing it as genocide is inaccurate and harmful.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Is the evacuation actually taking place? I know it sounds crazy, but it's an eight mile walk (assuming that's the dominant form of transport within the Gaza strip at the moment) from Gaza City to south of Wadi Gaza river, so I don't think it's as unachievable as you would think. They would hopefully be able to come back north after the Israeli campaign.

They either come back to rubble or, more likely, are not allowed to come back at all. And remember that Gaza is out of fresh water and fuel.

That's ignoring the possibility, of course, that Israel will simply say that there are Hamas elements inside the refugee flight and bomb the refugee corridors and "safe zones" as it has done in the past.

[pppolitics]

Obviously a lot will unfold and so the answer to this question could change depending on what happens, but it would be interesting to hear someone, if it is assumed reasonable that Israel responds to the attacks, what the alternative is to any of the steps that they have taken so far.

Clearly it is a complicated situation with Gaza being so densely populated, Hamas hiding in civilian areas, etc. But those things are fixed. What is the reasonable alternative?

I am someone who has been critical of actions by the Israeli government in the broader situation, but I suppose on these things I’m just a bit of a realist.

Israel needs to look at itself in the mirror and realize that it is just as responsible for this conflict as the Palestinian is and go from there.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1712530324033327131?s=20

[Ferguson97]

Hezbollah and IDF exchange fire

[ProudModerate2]

Obviously a lot will unfold and so the answer to this question could change depending on what happens, but it would be interesting to hear someone, if it is assumed reasonable that Israel responds to the attacks, what the alternative is to any of the steps that they have taken so far.

Clearly it is a complicated situation with Gaza being so densely populated, Hamas hiding in civilian areas, etc. But those things are fixed. What is the reasonable alternative?

I am someone who has been critical of actions by the Israeli government in the broader situation, but I suppose on these things I’m just a bit of a realist.

They've already killed all of the Hamas fighters who actually attacked Israel.
...

What are you talking about?
Many retreated back into Gaza after doing their terroristic killings.
Some returning with kidnapped Israeli citizens.
Not to mention the ones who continue to launch rockets from Gaza into Israel.
Etc, etc.

[Red Velvet]

Disclaimer: Strong images

https://twitter.com/ytirawi/status/1712857326909100519

[Birdish]

Hezbollah and IDF exchange fire

Appears a news crew got hit in the exchange, although it's seems like there's speculation it could have been from either side. Regardless, these people are risking their lives reporting from an active war zone.

[Red Velvet]

Giving one million people--half of them children--24 hours to leave, regardless of what Hamas says, is utterly untenable. Between this and the West Bank being placed under full lockdown it's going to be mass slaughter, and the West will stand and watch as tens of thousands of Palestinians are murdered.

The problem with the west is that at the end of the day, words are just words.

And despite all efforts to make our society a more tolerant one towards other races, ethnicities, cultural origins, it all turns moot with inaction like this (or even unconditional support for "Israël to do what it has to do"). I ask myself to what extent an apology to D.R. Congo for our crimes there is genuine from our part, if we continue to turn a blind eye or show support towards similar regimes and actions today.

I've all warned you for this. And the first two days, there were more people calling for me to be banned than something else, but this was my fear and this is why I responded the way I did the first days.

You’re a good person Laki, but because you’re Western you don’t fully get that most of other westerners aren’t like you - there isn’t the intention to make society more tolerant of other races, ethnicities or cultures, there’s the concern about protecting the power and status the West has.

Once you understand and accept that, everything starts making much more sense on why “moral concepts” are so flexible and applied differently depending of the color of the skin or the religion of the involved. When Ukraine War began, much of people’s shock was that “White European people” were dying.

Same thing here, people never cared about doing something for the Palestinians after years of slaughter and land grabbing because they’re darker skinned and Muslim, but in the first bad thing that happens to Israel everyone loses their minds because that isn’t something that is supposed to happen in people’s minds. While the destruction of Palestinians is a project, always has been.

It’s why I always laugh at the cheap fake excuse people give to Ukraine, that doing nothing somehow creates a precedent that validates interventionism lmao. That has already been validated over and over again through time, from Cold War coups to Middle East invasions. The “precedent” exists only to protect the Western countries because for everyone else that sort of thing already happened anyway.

[GALeftist]

Giving one million people--half of them children--24 hours to leave, regardless of what Hamas says, is utterly untenable. Between this and the West Bank being placed under full lockdown it's going to be mass slaughter, and the West will stand and watch as tens of thousands of Palestinians are murdered.
https://twitter.com/nsdoud/status/1712657466721460521?t=5zmBTHX33jGA-dhaYbk-TQ&a...

That's 24 hours more than their government gave Israeli citizens.

Israel is a goddamn nuclear power. It cannot be held to the same standards as a terror group. This is utterly despicable.

[Epaminondas]

That's the first time I read you openly take sides in politics, you've conscientiously avoided it during 4 years of GOP rule. But Bibi is a bridge too far, despite not living in Israel.

Your barking up the wrong tree. Maybe confusion with someone else, double-check the names.

Sorry, crossed wires here, I meant exactly the opposite of what you understood.
Yes I read extensively on redistricting, and for years you've been one of the few quality posters who successfully resisted getting emotionally invested in political drama, keeping it factual and informative, and not posting wild unfounded hunches.

I don't disagree at all with your reaction to the destructiveness of Netanyahu's warmongering despotism, but it must mean quite something to you.

[Mr. Illini]

https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/1712811314299490353?s=20

Dangerous rhetoric on the precipice of invasion

[MasterJedi]

Giving one million people--half of them children--24 hours to leave, regardless of what Hamas says, is utterly untenable. Between this and the West Bank being placed under full lockdown it's going to be mass slaughter, and the West will stand and watch as tens of thousands of Palestinians are murdered.

The problem with the west is that at the end of the day, words are just words.

And despite all efforts to make our society a more tolerant one towards other races, ethnicities, cultural origins, it all turns moot with inaction like this (or even unconditional support for "Israël to do what it has to do"). I ask myself to what extent an apology to D.R. Congo for our crimes there is genuine from our part, if we continue to turn a blind eye or show support towards similar regimes and actions today.

I've all warned you for this. And the first two days, there were more people calling for me to be banned than something else, but this was my fear and this is why I responded the way I did the first days.

You’re a good person Laki, but because you’re Western you don’t fully get that most of other westerners aren’t like you - there isn’t the intention to make society more tolerant of other races, ethnicities or cultures, there’s the concern about protecting the power and status the West has.

Once you understand and accept that, everything starts making much more sense on why “moral concepts” are so flexible and applied differently depending of the color of the skin or the religion of the involved. When Ukraine War began, much of people’s shock was that “White European people” were dying.

Same thing here, people never cared about doing something for the Palestinians after years of slaughter and land grabbing because they’re darker skinned and Muslim, but in the first bad thing that happens to Israel everyone loses their minds because that isn’t something that is supposed to happen in people’s minds. While the destruction of Palestinians is a project, always has been.

It’s why I always laugh at the cheap fake excuse people give to Ukraine, that doing nothing somehow creates a precedent that validates interventionism lmao. That has already been validated over and over again through time, from Cold War coups to Middle East invasions. The “precedent” exists only to protect the Western countries because for everyone else that sort of thing already happened anyway.

Big talk about “all westerners are evil people” from someone who bends the knee and is happily leashed by China and Russia. Dogs like you aren’t valued by your masters.

[MasterJedi]

https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/1712811314299490353?s=20

Dangerous rhetoric on the precipice of invasion

They’re going to start shelling and bombing the sh**t out of the strip after the 24 hours is over. It’s going to be a massive bloodbath

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

https://twitter.com/RTE_PrimeTime/status/1712516408683151687?s=20

[OSR stands with Israel]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

[GALeftist]

Giving one million people--half of them children--24 hours to leave, regardless of what Hamas says, is utterly untenable. Between this and the West Bank being placed under full lockdown it's going to be mass slaughter, and the West will stand and watch as tens of thousands of Palestinians are murdered.

The problem with the west is that at the end of the day, words are just words.

And despite all efforts to make our society a more tolerant one towards other races, ethnicities, cultural origins, it all turns moot with inaction like this (or even unconditional support for "Israël to do what it has to do"). I ask myself to what extent an apology to D.R. Congo for our crimes there is genuine from our part, if we continue to turn a blind eye or show support towards similar regimes and actions today.

I've all warned you for this. And the first two days, there were more people calling for me to be banned than something else, but this was my fear and this is why I responded the way I did the first days.

You’re a good person Laki, but because you’re Western you don’t fully get that most of other westerners aren’t like you - there isn’t the intention to make society more tolerant of other races, ethnicities or cultures, there’s the concern about protecting the power and status the West has.

Once you understand and accept that, everything starts making much more sense on why “moral concepts” are so flexible and applied differently depending of the color of the skin or the religion of the involved. When Ukraine War began, much of people’s shock was that “White European people” were dying.

Same thing here, people never cared about doing something for the Palestinians after years of slaughter and land grabbing because they’re darker skinned and Muslim, but in the first bad thing that happens to Israel everyone loses their minds because that isn’t something that is supposed to happen in people’s minds. While the destruction of Palestinians is a project, always has been.

It’s why I always laugh at the cheap fake excuse people give to Ukraine, that doing nothing somehow creates a precedent that validates interventionism lmao. That has already been validated over and over again through time, from Cold War coups to Middle East invasions. The “precedent” exists only to protect the Western countries because for everyone else that sort of thing already happened anyway.

Oh pipe down Red Velvet. This is not the time or place for your inane campist ramblings. The entire world just witnessed a Muslim nation ethnically cleanse a white Christian population with shameful silence from the entire Western world. Please either pick up a book or go comment on some other issue where your lens is less myopic.

[Red Velvet]

Big talk about “all westerners are evil people” from someone who bends the knee and is happily leashed by China and Russia. Dogs like you aren’t valued by your masters.

Zzzzzzzzzz again the bipolar “Western” or “Russia/China” camps talk.

Talk about reality denialism. But I get that pushing a bipolar reading of the world is more convenient because it allows a “Us or them”; “Good or Bad” dichotomy to be instrumentalized in your favor.

World is already multipolar no matter how inconvenient that complexity is for you. We’re getting constant signs if it every day.

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/1712811314299490353?s=20

Dangerous rhetoric on the precipice of invasion

That makes it easier to justify genocide.

[GALeftist]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

[Red Velvet]

Oh pipe down Red Velvet. This is not the time or place for your inane campist ramblings. The entire world just witnessed a Muslim nation ethnically cleanse a white Christian population with shameful silence from the entire Western world. Please either pick up a book or go comment on some other issue where your lens is less myopic.

Lmao at the notion that Armenia is considered “White Western” for the West.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Big talk about “all westerners are evil people” from someone who bends the knee and is happily leashed by China and Russia. Dogs like you aren’t valued by your masters.

Zzzzzzzzzz again the bipolar “Western” or “Russia/China” camps talk.

Talk about reality denialism. But I get that pushing a bipolar reading of the world is more convenient because it allows a “Us or them”; “Good or Bad” dichotomy to be instrumentalized in your favor.

World is already multipolar no matter how inconvenient that complexity is for you. We’re getting constant signs if it every day.

Your global south alliance does not exist. Cope and Seethe

[OSR stands with Israel]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

[Hindsight was 2020]

Big talk about “all westerners are evil people” from someone who bends the knee and is happily leashed by China and Russia. Dogs like you aren’t valued by your masters.

Zzzzzzzzzz again the bipolar “Western” or “Russia/China” camps talk.

Talk about reality denialism. But I get that pushing a bipolar reading of the world is more convenient because it allows a “Us or them”; “Good or Bad” dichotomy to be instrumentalized in your favor.

World is already multipolar no matter how inconvenient that complexity is for you. We’re getting constant signs if it every day.

Says the person who defends Russia’s war crimes on the grounds of “West bad”