Israel-Gaza war

[Libertas Vel Mors]

This is horrific. I don't know how anything remains the same after this. Israel would be completely justified to vaporize the Gaza Strip from top to bottom, and frankly it must at the very least ensure that the Gaza Strip does not continue to exist as it does now.

Was a coinflip whether you would would take this stance or "the perfidious Jew must be beaten back" but I guess this form of bloodlust was slightly less surprising.

I am literally a Jew and have been completely pro-Israel my entire life. Basic support for civilization and decency compels it. Go  yourself and I have no patience for people like you who on the one hand cheer on terrorism and on the other hand pretend to be innocents.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status/1710614655620534296

What a change for India . After decades of backing Palestine, they finally have a leader who is Pro Israel

And Netanyahu will have Modi's back in the next round of anti-Muslim pogroms.

[jaichind]

BJP already linking India's fairly small Muslim insurgency to Hamas
https://twitter.com/BJP4India/status/1710691137558810637

[Comrade Funk]

Insane some people here actually want the U.S. to enter the war. Not serious people.

[Horus]

All of this is very sad, and also very unsurprising. This part of the world has been at war for thousands of years and I don't see that ending in the next thousand.

Nihilistic nonsense with no grounding in fact.

Not our business either way. This isn't like Ukraine where one side is clearly ethical and wholly in the right. Israel has the right to counter attack, but they will of course take it too far and probably as Libertas so gleefully put it vaporize all of Gaza. Then more of the same next decade.

[KaiserDave]

I think there is truth to the statement that the right-wing occupation disaster has weakened the defensive capabilities of the IDF. Hopefully there will be an investigation into how this travesty was allowed to occur. Cool heads must prevail.

https://twitter.com/GONENB1/status/1710568015396270226?s=20

Google translated: My father, Brigadier General Uzi Ben Yitzchak, who was the commander of the Central Command, asked me to ask why they don't tell the truth: 26 battalions, almost all of the regular IDF is in the territories. There is almost no army in the south. All this by a decision of an extreme right-wing government.

It should be said clearly.

Forces should be transferred from the West Bank to Gaza and close the fence at all costs and not let them return to Gaza

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

A thought: what does Hamas really see as its core constituency? What does it see as its goals? We should not look at this purely from the perspective of territory, we should think of this in terms of political goals achieved or flunked, or neither (and not just short-term ones).
Even a conventional defeat might play into Hamas' hands, as Bibi and co could have difficulty getting their goals through in both Gaza and West Bank simultaneously, and the Arab World would be more outraged at what Israeli military actions unfold in Gaza than at Hamas' actions. If its mojo of fighting the Israelis is in better shape than at the start, and they aren't completely smashed, this might even be a net win outcome for Hamas, given they oppose normalization, and value cred as a premier anti-Israeli force in the eyes of the Arab street.
Of course, a messy outcome leaves room for both Hamas and Bibi to end up as net winners in the short-term. Long-term, is another story.

I don’t see Bibi coming out out this as a winner, he has clearly failed the Israeli population, I expect this will result in even more extreme parties coming out on the top. As for Hamas, I don’t expect a lot of survivors.

While it does feel a little crass for me to speculate about electoral implications, it does seem like this poses a strong opening for someone like Benny Gantz, who is seen as a credible national security guy.

The thing is, much like the second Intifada, an attack of this scale and viciousness ends the chances of any pro-concessions movement for a long time. So attacking Netanyahu on his failings as a security chief and promising effective action against the enemy might be a winning strategy for his top opposition.

No. You don't get it. Gantz, Netanyahu etc, this doesn't help any of them. This is the most radical right-shift in Israeli history.

I don't think you get that the foreign policy of everyone to the right of Meretz will be identical after this.

Ben Gvir and his ilk being in the government right now isn't going to help them.

[OSR stands with Israel]

All of this is very sad, and also very unsurprising. This part of the world has been at war for thousands of years and I don't see that ending in the next thousand.

The Middle East wasn't inherently any more violent of a place than, say, Europe, prior to 1945. This current tragedy is the result of decades of deliberate policy choices by the Israeli state.

No , the reason the Middle East is violent is because of radical Islamists who want to destroy all non Islamic religions

[Libertas Vel Mors]

A thought: what does Hamas really see as its core constituency? What does it see as its goals? We should not look at this purely from the perspective of territory, we should think of this in terms of political goals achieved or flunked, or neither (and not just short-term ones).
Even a conventional defeat might play into Hamas' hands, as Bibi and co could have difficulty getting their goals through in both Gaza and West Bank simultaneously, and the Arab World would be more outraged at what Israeli military actions unfold in Gaza than at Hamas' actions. If its mojo of fighting the Israelis is in better shape than at the start, and they aren't completely smashed, this might even be a net win outcome for Hamas, given they oppose normalization, and value cred as a premier anti-Israeli force in the eyes of the Arab street.
Of course, a messy outcome leaves room for both Hamas and Bibi to end up as net winners in the short-term. Long-term, is another story.

I don’t see Bibi coming out out this as a winner, he has clearly failed the Israeli population, I expect this will result in even more extreme parties coming out on the top. As for Hamas, I don’t expect a lot of survivors.

While it does feel a little crass for me to speculate about electoral implications, it does seem like this poses a strong opening for someone like Benny Gantz, who is seen as a credible national security guy.

The thing is, much like the second Intifada, an attack of this scale and viciousness ends the chances of any pro-concessions movement for a long time. So attacking Netanyahu on his failings as a security chief and promising effective action against the enemy might be a winning strategy for his top opposition.

No. You don't get it. Gantz, Netanyahu etc, this doesn't help any of them. This is the most radical right-shift in Israeli history.

I don't think you get that the foreign policy of everyone to the right of Meretz will be identical after this.

Ben Gvir and his ilk being in the government right now isn't going to help them.

No, it won't. Labor is not going to call for the elimination of the Gaza Strip. After today, probably 40%+ of Israeli voters, maybe even a majority, would.

[KaiserDave]

A thought: what does Hamas really see as its core constituency? What does it see as its goals? We should not look at this purely from the perspective of territory, we should think of this in terms of political goals achieved or flunked, or neither (and not just short-term ones).
Even a conventional defeat might play into Hamas' hands, as Bibi and co could have difficulty getting their goals through in both Gaza and West Bank simultaneously, and the Arab World would be more outraged at what Israeli military actions unfold in Gaza than at Hamas' actions. If its mojo of fighting the Israelis is in better shape than at the start, and they aren't completely smashed, this might even be a net win outcome for Hamas, given they oppose normalization, and value cred as a premier anti-Israeli force in the eyes of the Arab street.
Of course, a messy outcome leaves room for both Hamas and Bibi to end up as net winners in the short-term. Long-term, is another story.

I don’t see Bibi coming out out this as a winner, he has clearly failed the Israeli population, I expect this will result in even more extreme parties coming out on the top. As for Hamas, I don’t expect a lot of survivors.

While it does feel a little crass for me to speculate about electoral implications, it does seem like this poses a strong opening for someone like Benny Gantz, who is seen as a credible national security guy.

The thing is, much like the second Intifada, an attack of this scale and viciousness ends the chances of any pro-concessions movement for a long time. So attacking Netanyahu on his failings as a security chief and promising effective action against the enemy might be a winning strategy for his top opposition.

No. You don't get it. Gantz, Netanyahu etc, this doesn't help any of them. This is the most radical right-shift in Israeli history.

I don't think you get that the foreign policy of everyone to the right of Meretz will be identical after this.

Ben Gvir and his ilk being in the government right now isn't going to help them.

That's a good reason to support Meretz.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

All of this is very sad, and also very unsurprising. This part of the world has been at war for thousands of years and I don't see that ending in the next thousand.

The Middle East wasn't inherently any more violent of a place than, say, Europe, prior to 1945. This current tragedy is the result of decades of deliberate policy choices by the Israeli state.

No , the reason the Middle East is violent is because of radical Islamists who want to destroy all non Islamic religions

I too have not read about any historical events before September 11th, 2001.

[KaiserDave]

A thought: what does Hamas really see as its core constituency? What does it see as its goals? We should not look at this purely from the perspective of territory, we should think of this in terms of political goals achieved or flunked, or neither (and not just short-term ones).
Even a conventional defeat might play into Hamas' hands, as Bibi and co could have difficulty getting their goals through in both Gaza and West Bank simultaneously, and the Arab World would be more outraged at what Israeli military actions unfold in Gaza than at Hamas' actions. If its mojo of fighting the Israelis is in better shape than at the start, and they aren't completely smashed, this might even be a net win outcome for Hamas, given they oppose normalization, and value cred as a premier anti-Israeli force in the eyes of the Arab street.
Of course, a messy outcome leaves room for both Hamas and Bibi to end up as net winners in the short-term. Long-term, is another story.

I don’t see Bibi coming out out this as a winner, he has clearly failed the Israeli population, I expect this will result in even more extreme parties coming out on the top. As for Hamas, I don’t expect a lot of survivors.

While it does feel a little crass for me to speculate about electoral implications, it does seem like this poses a strong opening for someone like Benny Gantz, who is seen as a credible national security guy.

The thing is, much like the second Intifada, an attack of this scale and viciousness ends the chances of any pro-concessions movement for a long time. So attacking Netanyahu on his failings as a security chief and promising effective action against the enemy might be a winning strategy for his top opposition.

No. You don't get it. Gantz, Netanyahu etc, this doesn't help any of them. This is the most radical right-shift in Israeli history.

I don't think you get that the foreign policy of everyone to the right of Meretz will be identical after this.

Ben Gvir and his ilk being in the government right now isn't going to help them.

No, it won't. Labor is not going to call for the elimination of the Gaza Strip. After today, probably 40%+ of Israeli voters, maybe even a majority, would.

A good reason to support Labor.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I think there is truth to the statement that the right-wing occupation disaster has weakened the defensive capabilities of the IDF. Hopefully there will be an investigation into how this travesty was allowed to occur. Cool heads must prevail.

https://twitter.com/GONENB1/status/1710568015396270226?s=20
Google translated: My father, Brigadier General Uzi Ben Yitzchak, who was the commander of the Central Command, asked me to ask why they don't tell the truth: 26 battalions, almost all of the regular IDF is in the territories. There is almost no army in the south. All this by a decision of an extreme right-wing government.

It should be said clearly.

Forces should be transferred from the West Bank to Gaza and close the fence at all costs and not let them return to Gaza

Yes why there wasn't proper defense near Gaza is going to be a very difficult question for Bibi to answer.

[OSR stands with Israel]

All of this is very sad, and also very unsurprising. This part of the world has been at war for thousands of years and I don't see that ending in the next thousand.

The Middle East wasn't inherently any more violent of a place than, say, Europe, prior to 1945. This current tragedy is the result of decades of deliberate policy choices by the Israeli state.

No , the reason the Middle East is violent is because of radical Islamists who want to destroy all non Islamic religions

I too have not read about any historical events before September 11th, 2001.

Radical Islamists hate Israel because they couldn’t stand the idea of a Jewish nation existing . That’s why they have tried to destroy it multiple times since 1948. It’s also why they hate India , because they can’t stand the idea of a majority Hindu nation existing either.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

A thought: what does Hamas really see as its core constituency? What does it see as its goals? We should not look at this purely from the perspective of territory, we should think of this in terms of political goals achieved or flunked, or neither (and not just short-term ones).
Even a conventional defeat might play into Hamas' hands, as Bibi and co could have difficulty getting their goals through in both Gaza and West Bank simultaneously, and the Arab World would be more outraged at what Israeli military actions unfold in Gaza than at Hamas' actions. If its mojo of fighting the Israelis is in better shape than at the start, and they aren't completely smashed, this might even be a net win outcome for Hamas, given they oppose normalization, and value cred as a premier anti-Israeli force in the eyes of the Arab street.
Of course, a messy outcome leaves room for both Hamas and Bibi to end up as net winners in the short-term. Long-term, is another story.

I don’t see Bibi coming out out this as a winner, he has clearly failed the Israeli population, I expect this will result in even more extreme parties coming out on the top. As for Hamas, I don’t expect a lot of survivors.

While it does feel a little crass for me to speculate about electoral implications, it does seem like this poses a strong opening for someone like Benny Gantz, who is seen as a credible national security guy.

The thing is, much like the second Intifada, an attack of this scale and viciousness ends the chances of any pro-concessions movement for a long time. So attacking Netanyahu on his failings as a security chief and promising effective action against the enemy might be a winning strategy for his top opposition.

No. You don't get it. Gantz, Netanyahu etc, this doesn't help any of them. This is the most radical right-shift in Israeli history.

I don't think you get that the foreign policy of everyone to the right of Meretz will be identical after this.

Ben Gvir and his ilk being in the government right now isn't going to help them.

No, it won't. Labor is not going to call for the elimination of the Gaza Strip. After today, probably 40%+ of Israeli voters, maybe even a majority, would.

A good reason to support Labor.

Maybe. I don't agree, but regardless it is important to understand that this is not a "helps x at the expense of y" situation but rather a paradigm shift.

[KaiserDave]

A thought: what does Hamas really see as its core constituency? What does it see as its goals? We should not look at this purely from the perspective of territory, we should think of this in terms of political goals achieved or flunked, or neither (and not just short-term ones).
Even a conventional defeat might play into Hamas' hands, as Bibi and co could have difficulty getting their goals through in both Gaza and West Bank simultaneously, and the Arab World would be more outraged at what Israeli military actions unfold in Gaza than at Hamas' actions. If its mojo of fighting the Israelis is in better shape than at the start, and they aren't completely smashed, this might even be a net win outcome for Hamas, given they oppose normalization, and value cred as a premier anti-Israeli force in the eyes of the Arab street.
Of course, a messy outcome leaves room for both Hamas and Bibi to end up as net winners in the short-term. Long-term, is another story.

I don’t see Bibi coming out out this as a winner, he has clearly failed the Israeli population, I expect this will result in even more extreme parties coming out on the top. As for Hamas, I don’t expect a lot of survivors.

While it does feel a little crass for me to speculate about electoral implications, it does seem like this poses a strong opening for someone like Benny Gantz, who is seen as a credible national security guy.

The thing is, much like the second Intifada, an attack of this scale and viciousness ends the chances of any pro-concessions movement for a long time. So attacking Netanyahu on his failings as a security chief and promising effective action against the enemy might be a winning strategy for his top opposition.

No. You don't get it. Gantz, Netanyahu etc, this doesn't help any of them. This is the most radical right-shift in Israeli history.

I don't think you get that the foreign policy of everyone to the right of Meretz will be identical after this.

Ben Gvir and his ilk being in the government right now isn't going to help them.

No, it won't. Labor is not going to call for the elimination of the Gaza Strip. After today, probably 40%+ of Israeli voters, maybe even a majority, would.

A good reason to support Labor.

Maybe. I don't agree, but regardless it is important to understand that this is not a "helps x at the expense of y" situation but rather a paradigm shift.

Yeah it's terrifying. Moderate voices of reasons marginalized, arsonists and madmen elevated.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

A thought: what does Hamas really see as its core constituency? What does it see as its goals? We should not look at this purely from the perspective of territory, we should think of this in terms of political goals achieved or flunked, or neither (and not just short-term ones).
Even a conventional defeat might play into Hamas' hands, as Bibi and co could have difficulty getting their goals through in both Gaza and West Bank simultaneously, and the Arab World would be more outraged at what Israeli military actions unfold in Gaza than at Hamas' actions. If its mojo of fighting the Israelis is in better shape than at the start, and they aren't completely smashed, this might even be a net win outcome for Hamas, given they oppose normalization, and value cred as a premier anti-Israeli force in the eyes of the Arab street.
Of course, a messy outcome leaves room for both Hamas and Bibi to end up as net winners in the short-term. Long-term, is another story.

I don’t see Bibi coming out out this as a winner, he has clearly failed the Israeli population, I expect this will result in even more extreme parties coming out on the top. As for Hamas, I don’t expect a lot of survivors.

While it does feel a little crass for me to speculate about electoral implications, it does seem like this poses a strong opening for someone like Benny Gantz, who is seen as a credible national security guy.

The thing is, much like the second Intifada, an attack of this scale and viciousness ends the chances of any pro-concessions movement for a long time. So attacking Netanyahu on his failings as a security chief and promising effective action against the enemy might be a winning strategy for his top opposition.

No. You don't get it. Gantz, Netanyahu etc, this doesn't help any of them. This is the most radical right-shift in Israeli history.

I don't think you get that the foreign policy of everyone to the right of Meretz will be identical after this.

Ben Gvir and his ilk being in the government right now isn't going to help them.

No, it won't. Labor is not going to call for the elimination of the Gaza Strip. After today, probably 40%+ of Israeli voters, maybe even a majority, would.

A good reason to support Labor.

Maybe. I don't agree, but regardless it is important to understand that this is not a "helps x at the expense of y" situation but rather a paradigm shift.

Yeah it's terrifying. Moderate voices of reasons marginalized, arsonists and madmen elevated.

I think that after today it is worth questioning what constitutes a voice of reason, just as it was worth questioning after the failure of Oslo.

[KaiserDave]

A thought: what does Hamas really see as its core constituency? What does it see as its goals? We should not look at this purely from the perspective of territory, we should think of this in terms of political goals achieved or flunked, or neither (and not just short-term ones).
Even a conventional defeat might play into Hamas' hands, as Bibi and co could have difficulty getting their goals through in both Gaza and West Bank simultaneously, and the Arab World would be more outraged at what Israeli military actions unfold in Gaza than at Hamas' actions. If its mojo of fighting the Israelis is in better shape than at the start, and they aren't completely smashed, this might even be a net win outcome for Hamas, given they oppose normalization, and value cred as a premier anti-Israeli force in the eyes of the Arab street.
Of course, a messy outcome leaves room for both Hamas and Bibi to end up as net winners in the short-term. Long-term, is another story.

I don’t see Bibi coming out out this as a winner, he has clearly failed the Israeli population, I expect this will result in even more extreme parties coming out on the top. As for Hamas, I don’t expect a lot of survivors.

While it does feel a little crass for me to speculate about electoral implications, it does seem like this poses a strong opening for someone like Benny Gantz, who is seen as a credible national security guy.

The thing is, much like the second Intifada, an attack of this scale and viciousness ends the chances of any pro-concessions movement for a long time. So attacking Netanyahu on his failings as a security chief and promising effective action against the enemy might be a winning strategy for his top opposition.

No. You don't get it. Gantz, Netanyahu etc, this doesn't help any of them. This is the most radical right-shift in Israeli history.

I don't think you get that the foreign policy of everyone to the right of Meretz will be identical after this.

Ben Gvir and his ilk being in the government right now isn't going to help them.

No, it won't. Labor is not going to call for the elimination of the Gaza Strip. After today, probably 40%+ of Israeli voters, maybe even a majority, would.

A good reason to support Labor.

Maybe. I don't agree, but regardless it is important to understand that this is not a "helps x at the expense of y" situation but rather a paradigm shift.

Yeah it's terrifying. Moderate voices of reasons marginalized, arsonists and madmen elevated.

I think that after today it is worth questioning what constitutes a voice of reason, just as it was worth questioning after the failure of Oslo.

Proposing the vaporization of Gaza and the murder of thousands of people doesn't strike me as very reasonable.

[OSR stands with Israel]

BJP already linking India's fairly small Muslim insurgency to Hamas
https://twitter.com/BJP4India/status/1710691137558810637

India is the modern Nazi Germany and no one outside the subcontinent really cares.

Lmao

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

All of this is very sad, and also very unsurprising. This part of the world has been at war for thousands of years and I don't see that ending in the next thousand.

The Middle East wasn't inherently any more violent of a place than, say, Europe, prior to 1945. This current tragedy is the result of decades of deliberate policy choices by the Israeli state.

No , the reason the Middle East is violent is because of radical Islamists who want to destroy all non Islamic religions

I too have not read about any historical events before September 11th, 2001.

Radical Islamists hate Israel because they couldn’t stand the idea of a Jewish nation existing . That’s why they have tried to destroy it multiple times since 1948. It’s also why they hate India , because they can’t stand the idea of a majority Hindu nation existing either.

You're proving my point. Islamism was not a serious force in anti-Zionism before the 1970s at the very earliest, and in its initial form it was propped up by Israel to divide the Palestinian liberation movement.

[Aurelius2]

I just got off the phone with my mother. I had not realized that my grandmother is actually in Israel at this time, visiting a cousin. This cousin works for the State Department and they are in a safe location. This got wrenchingly personal very fast.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I just got off the phone with my mother. I had not realized that my grandmother is actually in Israel at this time, visiting a cousin. This cousin works for the State Department and they are in a safe location. This got wrenchingly personal very fast.

Hopefully your grandpa and your cousin stay safe .

[Upper Canada Tory]

Sad to see what's happening in Israel. Hopefully Hamas gets defeated and everyone remains safe. Thoughts and prayers to everyone affected.

[Hindsight was 2020]

I just got off the phone with my mother. I had not realized that my grandmother is actually in Israel at this time, visiting a cousin. This cousin works for the State Department and they are in a safe location. This got wrenchingly personal very fast.

Are they alright?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

A thought: what does Hamas really see as its core constituency? What does it see as its goals? We should not look at this purely from the perspective of territory, we should think of this in terms of political goals achieved or flunked, or neither (and not just short-term ones).
Even a conventional defeat might play into Hamas' hands, as Bibi and co could have difficulty getting their goals through in both Gaza and West Bank simultaneously, and the Arab World would be more outraged at what Israeli military actions unfold in Gaza than at Hamas' actions. If its mojo of fighting the Israelis is in better shape than at the start, and they aren't completely smashed, this might even be a net win outcome for Hamas, given they oppose normalization, and value cred as a premier anti-Israeli force in the eyes of the Arab street.
Of course, a messy outcome leaves room for both Hamas and Bibi to end up as net winners in the short-term. Long-term, is another story.

I don’t see Bibi coming out out this as a winner, he has clearly failed the Israeli population, I expect this will result in even more extreme parties coming out on the top. As for Hamas, I don’t expect a lot of survivors.

While it does feel a little crass for me to speculate about electoral implications, it does seem like this poses a strong opening for someone like Benny Gantz, who is seen as a credible national security guy.

The thing is, much like the second Intifada, an attack of this scale and viciousness ends the chances of any pro-concessions movement for a long time. So attacking Netanyahu on his failings as a security chief and promising effective action against the enemy might be a winning strategy for his top opposition.

No. You don't get it. Gantz, Netanyahu etc, this doesn't help any of them. This is the most radical right-shift in Israeli history.

I don't think you get that the foreign policy of everyone to the right of Meretz will be identical after this.

Ben Gvir and his ilk being in the government right now isn't going to help them.

No, it won't. Labor is not going to call for the elimination of the Gaza Strip. After today, probably 40%+ of Israeli voters, maybe even a majority, would.

A good reason to support Labor.

Maybe. I don't agree, but regardless it is important to understand that this is not a "helps x at the expense of y" situation but rather a paradigm shift.

Yeah it's terrifying. Moderate voices of reasons marginalized, arsonists and madmen elevated.

I think that after today it is worth questioning what constitutes a voice of reason, just as it was worth questioning after the failure of Oslo.

Oslo failed because far-right Zionists couldn't stand the idea of Palestinians having self-determination within their internationally-recognized territory, nothing more or less.