Israel-Gaza war

[afleitch]

Scotland's First Minister Humza Youssef whose wife's parents are stuck in Gaza.


https://twitter.com/SCoJeC/status/1712806291859447977

[Logical]

Statement from Doctors without Borders.
https://twitter.com/MSF/status/1712886892885061811

[pppolitics]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

Hamas, like the Nazis, explicitly seeks to exterminate every last Jew. It's right there in their charter! They are shockingly open about this.

Does anyone remember when the Israelis steal German land?

Oh wait!

Israel did not steal land; the Israelis immigrated, formed a government, decolonized, and then became a majority (basically in that order). Israel exists because of immigration policy, not conquest (except arguably in the Golan Heights).

Saying "all immigrants are settlers, kill them" is normally something I associate with the far-right, for some reason except when it comes to the Mandate of Palestine. No, we should not all live in hermit kingdoms, and forming new societies is good. Settlement (organized immigration from relatively wealthy to relatively poor countries to start new societies), so long as it is not accompanied by conquest, is basically good. Unfortunately the problem here is that the Palestinians did not get buy-in, because the immigration policy was set by the British Mandate rather than by a democratic Palestinian government, but that does not negate it or give Palestinian liberationists a reason to ethnically cleanse the area, much as the ethnically-Albanian majority in Kosovo only exists because of Ottoman rule but that is not a valid reason for Serbia to ethnically cleanse the area.

I was talking about occupied Palestinian territory.

[lfromnj]

Seems like its going to be rainy and cloudy in Gaza on Saturday  thru Monday.. Should be good cover for Hamas to go west without Satellite coverage.

[Vosem]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

Hamas, like the Nazis, explicitly seeks to exterminate every last Jew. It's right there in their charter! They are shockingly open about this.

Does anyone remember when the Israelis steal German land?

Oh wait!

Israel did not steal land; the Israelis immigrated, formed a government, decolonized, and then became a majority (basically in that order). Israel exists because of immigration policy, not conquest (except arguably in the Golan Heights).

Saying "all immigrants are settlers, kill them" is normally something I associate with the far-right, for some reason except when it comes to the Mandate of Palestine. No, we should not all live in hermit kingdoms, and forming new societies is good. Settlement (organized immigration from relatively wealthy to relatively poor countries to start new societies), so long as it is not accompanied by conquest, is basically good. Unfortunately the problem here is that the Palestinians did not get buy-in, because the immigration policy was set by the British Mandate rather than by a democratic Palestinian government, but that does not negate it or give Palestinian liberationists a reason to ethnically cleanse the area, much as the ethnically-Albanian majority in Kosovo only exists because of Ottoman rule but that is not a valid reason for Serbia to ethnically cleanse the area.

I was talking about occupied Palestinian territory.

There is no general right to independence for areas which are not colonies, so there is no right to Palestinian independence. Both the West Bank and Gaza were part of the Mandate, so under international law they belong to Israel. Israel has never annexed them pending a final settlement, after which there can be mass international recognition of Palestine (as with South Sudan breaking off of Sudan, for another post-colonial conflict where the borders did not make sense which ended in a divorce), but in the meantime Israel is occupying its own unincorporated territory, and so it sets the immigration law for those areas.

(This is pretty absurd, and what would happen in normal places is that the Palestinians would have Israeli citizenship, but this didn't happen on account of the Jordanian/Egyptian occupations and the fact that it would later have been seen as very provocative -- and that most Israelis do not want to be in the same country as the Palestinians, much as the Palestinians do not want to be in the same country as the Israelis. Nevertheless the West Bank and Gaza settlements are legal -- this is a minority interpretation of the law but it is what a naïve application of it tends to imply -- and the most serious crime the Israeli state has actually committed was the ethnic cleansing of Israelis from the Gaza Strip in 2004.)

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1712869176065323287?s=20
"shell landed on" is the international version of "officer-involved shooting"

[pppolitics]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

Hamas, like the Nazis, explicitly seeks to exterminate every last Jew. It's right there in their charter! They are shockingly open about this.

Does anyone remember when the Israelis steal German land?

Oh wait!

Israel did not steal land; the Israelis immigrated, formed a government, decolonized, and then became a majority (basically in that order). Israel exists because of immigration policy, not conquest (except arguably in the Golan Heights).

Saying "all immigrants are settlers, kill them" is normally something I associate with the far-right, for some reason except when it comes to the Mandate of Palestine. No, we should not all live in hermit kingdoms, and forming new societies is good. Settlement (organized immigration from relatively wealthy to relatively poor countries to start new societies), so long as it is not accompanied by conquest, is basically good. Unfortunately the problem here is that the Palestinians did not get buy-in, because the immigration policy was set by the British Mandate rather than by a democratic Palestinian government, but that does not negate it or give Palestinian liberationists a reason to ethnically cleanse the area, much as the ethnically-Albanian majority in Kosovo only exists because of Ottoman rule but that is not a valid reason for Serbia to ethnically cleanse the area.

I was talking about occupied Palestinian territory.

There is no general right to independence for areas which are not colonies, so there is no right to Palestinian independence. Both the West Bank and Gaza were part of the Mandate, so under international law they belong to Israel. Israel has never annexed them pending a final settlement, after which there can be mass international recognition of Palestine (as with South Sudan breaking off of Sudan, for another post-colonial conflict where the borders did not make sense which ended in a divorce), but in the meantime Israel is occupying its own unincorporated territory, and so it sets the immigration law for those areas.

(This is pretty absurd, and what would happen in normal places is that the Palestinians would have Israeli citizenship, but this didn't happen on account of the Jordanian/Egyptian occupations and the fact that it would later have been seen as very provocative -- and that most Israelis do not want to be in the same country as the Palestinians, much as the Palestinians do not want to be in the same country as the Israelis. Nevertheless the West Bank and Gaza settlements are legal -- this is a minority interpretation of the law but it is what a naïve application of it tends to imply -- and the most serious crime the Israeli state has actually committed was the ethnic cleansing of Israelis from the Gaza Strip in 2004.)

The United Nations said otherwise.

[Vosem]

Sorry to interrupt your argument, but Hamas' call for civillians to stay in the north of Gaza doesn't seem to be working.

https://twitter.com/kann_news/status/1712766354321813898

After the message from the IDF, Gazans evacuate their homes and move to the south of the Gaza Strip | Documentation @nurityohanan Photo: Reuters

...well...

https://twitter.com/Samehahabeeb/status/1712843991824191966

Unless Hamas cooperates with the order I doubt it could possibly be universal, or that we could even ever know the extent to which it was or was not followed.

[The Mikado]

I really need the discipline to stop clicking show on posts from blocked users.

[Zinneke]

It's almost as if Gaza's population and indeed Palestine's, is as heterogeneous in its political and sociological profile as Israel's.

Shocking for those who think Arabs have a hive mind, I know.

[Vosem]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

Hamas, like the Nazis, explicitly seeks to exterminate every last Jew. It's right there in their charter! They are shockingly open about this.

Does anyone remember when the Israelis steal German land?

Oh wait!

Israel did not steal land; the Israelis immigrated, formed a government, decolonized, and then became a majority (basically in that order). Israel exists because of immigration policy, not conquest (except arguably in the Golan Heights).

Saying "all immigrants are settlers, kill them" is normally something I associate with the far-right, for some reason except when it comes to the Mandate of Palestine. No, we should not all live in hermit kingdoms, and forming new societies is good. Settlement (organized immigration from relatively wealthy to relatively poor countries to start new societies), so long as it is not accompanied by conquest, is basically good. Unfortunately the problem here is that the Palestinians did not get buy-in, because the immigration policy was set by the British Mandate rather than by a democratic Palestinian government, but that does not negate it or give Palestinian liberationists a reason to ethnically cleanse the area, much as the ethnically-Albanian majority in Kosovo only exists because of Ottoman rule but that is not a valid reason for Serbia to ethnically cleanse the area.

I was talking about occupied Palestinian territory.

There is no general right to independence for areas which are not colonies, so there is no right to Palestinian independence. Both the West Bank and Gaza were part of the Mandate, so under international law they belong to Israel. Israel has never annexed them pending a final settlement, after which there can be mass international recognition of Palestine (as with South Sudan breaking off of Sudan, for another post-colonial conflict where the borders did not make sense which ended in a divorce), but in the meantime Israel is occupying its own unincorporated territory, and so it sets the immigration law for those areas.

(This is pretty absurd, and what would happen in normal places is that the Palestinians would have Israeli citizenship, but this didn't happen on account of the Jordanian/Egyptian occupations and the fact that it would later have been seen as very provocative -- and that most Israelis do not want to be in the same country as the Palestinians, much as the Palestinians do not want to be in the same country as the Israelis. Nevertheless the West Bank and Gaza settlements are legal -- this is a minority interpretation of the law but it is what a naïve application of it tends to imply -- and the most serious crime the Israeli state has actually committed was the ethnic cleansing of Israelis from the Gaza Strip in 2004.)

The United Nations said otherwise.

I know. It is a mark against the United Nations.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

"Evacuate a million people in the next day or we'll start sprinkling you with itching powder that shreds your organs."
"No! Don't evacuate! Get shredded by the itching powder to teach them all a lesson! Glory to the martyrs!"
Are Gazan civilians the most abandoned and shat-upon group of people in the world? They have to be a top contender along with the Rohingya and similar groups.

[Vosem]

It's almost as if Gaza's population and indeed Palestine's, is as heterogeneous in its political and sociological profile as Israel's.

Shocking for those who think Arabs have a hive mind, I know.

I don't know if this is directed at my post, but yes, obviously. My point is that the Israeli order to move a large amount of people in a short period of time is an order of a type which could only be obeyed universally with the collaboration of the local government, and not otherwise.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I'm gonna be real, as someone who wholeheartedly supports Palestinian liberation, I find the constant arguments over the baby beheadings totally counterproductive and really emblematic of the failures of the pro-Palestinian left here. This is just me personally, but I suspect I am not in the minority when I say that I am mostly against baby killing in itself – the issue of whether the babies were beheaded is of comparatively minor importance. Therefore, when I see person 1 go "Hamas beheaded babies" and person 2 go "that's not true, they definitely killed babies, but there's no confirmation of beheadings" I instantly become less sympathetic to person 2. Anyone killing babies is bad and doesn't need to be defended.

I think it's symptomatic of issues much wider than this conflict. All claims, particularly war crimes, require to be substantied in order to ensure that they go to court as the truth, if a court is 'called' to address them. Victims are not served by lack of clarity. They are not served by 'trial by social media.'

Your post inspired me to make this meme.

[pppolitics]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

Hamas, like the Nazis, explicitly seeks to exterminate every last Jew. It's right there in their charter! They are shockingly open about this.

Does anyone remember when the Israelis steal German land?

Oh wait!

Israel did not steal land; the Israelis immigrated, formed a government, decolonized, and then became a majority (basically in that order). Israel exists because of immigration policy, not conquest (except arguably in the Golan Heights).

Saying "all immigrants are settlers, kill them" is normally something I associate with the far-right, for some reason except when it comes to the Mandate of Palestine. No, we should not all live in hermit kingdoms, and forming new societies is good. Settlement (organized immigration from relatively wealthy to relatively poor countries to start new societies), so long as it is not accompanied by conquest, is basically good. Unfortunately the problem here is that the Palestinians did not get buy-in, because the immigration policy was set by the British Mandate rather than by a democratic Palestinian government, but that does not negate it or give Palestinian liberationists a reason to ethnically cleanse the area, much as the ethnically-Albanian majority in Kosovo only exists because of Ottoman rule but that is not a valid reason for Serbia to ethnically cleanse the area.

I was talking about occupied Palestinian territory.

There is no general right to independence for areas which are not colonies, so there is no right to Palestinian independence. Both the West Bank and Gaza were part of the Mandate, so under international law they belong to Israel. Israel has never annexed them pending a final settlement, after which there can be mass international recognition of Palestine (as with South Sudan breaking off of Sudan, for another post-colonial conflict where the borders did not make sense which ended in a divorce), but in the meantime Israel is occupying its own unincorporated territory, and so it sets the immigration law for those areas.

(This is pretty absurd, and what would happen in normal places is that the Palestinians would have Israeli citizenship, but this didn't happen on account of the Jordanian/Egyptian occupations and the fact that it would later have been seen as very provocative -- and that most Israelis do not want to be in the same country as the Palestinians, much as the Palestinians do not want to be in the same country as the Israelis. Nevertheless the West Bank and Gaza settlements are legal -- this is a minority interpretation of the law but it is what a naïve application of it tends to imply -- and the most serious crime the Israeli state has actually committed was the ethnic cleansing of Israelis from the Gaza Strip in 2004.)

The United Nations said otherwise.

I know. It is a mark against the United Nations.

Clearly, you know better the United Nations.

[ProudModerate2]

https://twitter.com/Samehahabeeb/status/1712843991824191966

This is insane.
These people should leave. They even have their kids out there, chanting (more or less) "we want to die." Like WTF is that?

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

https://twitter.com/Samehahabeeb/status/1712843991824191966

This is insane.
These people should leave. They even have their kids out there, chanting (more or less) "we want to die." Like WTF is that?

If you knew your home was going to be absolutely leveled by an invading force and there would be a good chance you would probably never return back to it, would you not want to at least try to defend it?

[LAKISYLVANIA]

It's almost as if Gaza's population and indeed Palestine's, is as heterogeneous in its political and sociological profile as Israel's.

Shocking for those who think Arabs have a hive mind, I know.

That's because it's not hard for Hamas to spread their propaganda if all they see is Israeli bombs being launched towards them and devastate their house, possessions and families.

It's easy for us to judge over other people from our safe locations.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Putin and Zelensky have given their thoughts and its quite telling


https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-israeli-ground-operation-gaza-will-result-civilian-losses-2023-10-13/

Russian President Vladimir Putin cautioned Israel on Friday against laying siege to Gaza in the same way that Nazi Germany besieged Leningrad, saying a ground offensive there would lead to an "absolutely unacceptable" number of civilian casualties.

Putin said Israel had been subjected to "an attack unprecedented in its cruelty" by Hamas militants, but was responding with cruel methods of its own.

He said there had been calls even in the United States for a blockade of the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip on a par with "the siege of Leningrad during World War Two".

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/zelensky-israel-hamas-war-gaza-visit-netanyahu

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky wants to visit Israel in a show of solidarity with the country amid the fighting in Gaza, two Ukrainian and Israeli officials told Axios.

[Senator Incitatus]

I have never in my life seen a clearer example of fighting evil with evil. I have no reaction to the stream of news except sorrow for the civilians, sorrow for all of us as witnesses.

[Vosem]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

Hamas, like the Nazis, explicitly seeks to exterminate every last Jew. It's right there in their charter! They are shockingly open about this.

Does anyone remember when the Israelis steal German land?

Oh wait!

Israel did not steal land; the Israelis immigrated, formed a government, decolonized, and then became a majority (basically in that order). Israel exists because of immigration policy, not conquest (except arguably in the Golan Heights).

Saying "all immigrants are settlers, kill them" is normally something I associate with the far-right, for some reason except when it comes to the Mandate of Palestine. No, we should not all live in hermit kingdoms, and forming new societies is good. Settlement (organized immigration from relatively wealthy to relatively poor countries to start new societies), so long as it is not accompanied by conquest, is basically good. Unfortunately the problem here is that the Palestinians did not get buy-in, because the immigration policy was set by the British Mandate rather than by a democratic Palestinian government, but that does not negate it or give Palestinian liberationists a reason to ethnically cleanse the area, much as the ethnically-Albanian majority in Kosovo only exists because of Ottoman rule but that is not a valid reason for Serbia to ethnically cleanse the area.

I was talking about occupied Palestinian territory.

There is no general right to independence for areas which are not colonies, so there is no right to Palestinian independence. Both the West Bank and Gaza were part of the Mandate, so under international law they belong to Israel. Israel has never annexed them pending a final settlement, after which there can be mass international recognition of Palestine (as with South Sudan breaking off of Sudan, for another post-colonial conflict where the borders did not make sense which ended in a divorce), but in the meantime Israel is occupying its own unincorporated territory, and so it sets the immigration law for those areas.

(This is pretty absurd, and what would happen in normal places is that the Palestinians would have Israeli citizenship, but this didn't happen on account of the Jordanian/Egyptian occupations and the fact that it would later have been seen as very provocative -- and that most Israelis do not want to be in the same country as the Palestinians, much as the Palestinians do not want to be in the same country as the Israelis. Nevertheless the West Bank and Gaza settlements are legal -- this is a minority interpretation of the law but it is what a naïve application of it tends to imply -- and the most serious crime the Israeli state has actually committed was the ethnic cleansing of Israelis from the Gaza Strip in 2004.)

The United Nations said otherwise.

I know. It is a mark against the United Nations.

Clearly, you know better the United Nations.

Yes. But that doesn't make me special; so do many.

[Open Source Intelligence]

I have never in my life seen a clearer example of fighting evil with evil.

Syria was worse being honest. It's just Arabs were killing Arabs so no one cared, including Obama.

Putin and Zelensky have given their thoughts and its quite telling

https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-israeli-ground-operation-gaza-will-result-civilian-losses-2023-10-13/

Russian President Vladimir Putin cautioned Israel on Friday against laying siege to Gaza in the same way that Nazi Germany besieged Leningrad, saying a ground offensive there would lead to an "absolutely unacceptable" number of civilian casualties.

Putin said Israel had been subjected to "an attack unprecedented in its cruelty" by Hamas militants, but was responding with cruel methods of its own.

He said there had been calls even in the United States for a blockade of the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip on a par with "the siege of Leningrad during World War Two".

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/zelensky-israel-hamas-war-gaza-visit-netanyahu

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky wants to visit Israel in a show of solidarity with the country amid the fighting in Gaza, two Ukrainian and Israeli officials told Axios.

It's pretty par for the course if you're paying attention. The world has divided in two:

Group 1 is the USA and Canada, almost all of Europe ex-Russia, Hungary, Serbia, and states like Israel, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan.

Group 2 is pretty much everyone else.

Neutral-ish states at the moment are the likes of India, the Saudis, Turkey, etc.

This is the new Cold War. Putin and Zelenskyy are each representing their side.

[Aurelius2]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712912579549384727

The IDF gave 8 more hours to evacuate the hospital that had been begging for more time.

This hospital is a known weapons depot, and a key part of Hamas's human shield strategy. Just wanted to provide context: they're not going to be going after a hospital for no reason at all.

All that said, I'm not sure why the IDF didn't give 3 days or so of notice for the evacuation to ensure there was more time for it to go smoothly. Of course, I'm sure the same people would be denouncing it regardless no matter how much notice was given. Hamas must be absolutely crushed, every last one of their terrorists taken out for good. No country can or should accept pogroms being committed against their own citizens, within their own borders, by outside forces. I pray that the IDF finds success in achieving this crucial goal while also keeping civilian casualties as low as possible.

[pppolitics]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

Hamas, like the Nazis, explicitly seeks to exterminate every last Jew. It's right there in their charter! They are shockingly open about this.

Does anyone remember when the Israelis steal German land?

Oh wait!

Israel did not steal land; the Israelis immigrated, formed a government, decolonized, and then became a majority (basically in that order). Israel exists because of immigration policy, not conquest (except arguably in the Golan Heights).

Saying "all immigrants are settlers, kill them" is normally something I associate with the far-right, for some reason except when it comes to the Mandate of Palestine. No, we should not all live in hermit kingdoms, and forming new societies is good. Settlement (organized immigration from relatively wealthy to relatively poor countries to start new societies), so long as it is not accompanied by conquest, is basically good. Unfortunately the problem here is that the Palestinians did not get buy-in, because the immigration policy was set by the British Mandate rather than by a democratic Palestinian government, but that does not negate it or give Palestinian liberationists a reason to ethnically cleanse the area, much as the ethnically-Albanian majority in Kosovo only exists because of Ottoman rule but that is not a valid reason for Serbia to ethnically cleanse the area.

I was talking about occupied Palestinian territory.

There is no general right to independence for areas which are not colonies, so there is no right to Palestinian independence. Both the West Bank and Gaza were part of the Mandate, so under international law they belong to Israel. Israel has never annexed them pending a final settlement, after which there can be mass international recognition of Palestine (as with South Sudan breaking off of Sudan, for another post-colonial conflict where the borders did not make sense which ended in a divorce), but in the meantime Israel is occupying its own unincorporated territory, and so it sets the immigration law for those areas.

(This is pretty absurd, and what would happen in normal places is that the Palestinians would have Israeli citizenship, but this didn't happen on account of the Jordanian/Egyptian occupations and the fact that it would later have been seen as very provocative -- and that most Israelis do not want to be in the same country as the Palestinians, much as the Palestinians do not want to be in the same country as the Israelis. Nevertheless the West Bank and Gaza settlements are legal -- this is a minority interpretation of the law but it is what a naïve application of it tends to imply -- and the most serious crime the Israeli state has actually committed was the ethnic cleansing of Israelis from the Gaza Strip in 2004.)

The United Nations said otherwise.

I know. It is a mark against the United Nations.

Clearly, you know better the United Nations.

Yes. But that doesn't make me special; so do many.

Naturally since they all went to Bibi school of genocide laws.

[Storr]

https://twitter.com/azelin/status/1712505142879142305?s=20